If you could only chose one to keep; Dame or Ant

[STOMP]

You keep dame.

No further discussion is needed.

You already tried dropping the mic and walking away only to pick it up and drop it again. People want to discuss a topic on a sports message board... so sorry

Personally I'm always up for trade talks about any player, but the question is always the same... whats coming back? It's beyond obvious that this current mix isn't championship caliber, so of course something or some things should be done to address the roster.

STOMP

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Disagree. Can we actually build a contender around Dame at this point? If the answer is no, then you keep Ant and build around Ant and our young guys.

We traded a young talented player to try to solidify a much better team 20 years ago, and that blew up in our face. Don't make this another Jermaine for Davis.

Jermaine didn't show a fraction of the ability Ant has shown, but I agree with your main point. Don't trade Ant.

 

[Natebishop3]

Jermaine didn't show a fraction of the ability Ant has shown, but I agree with your main point. Don't trade Ant.

Eh I’d say they were both pretty shit their first few years. Simons didn’t show much until last season. He’s a year older than Jermaine was. Jermaine was behind so much talent and Dunleavy had zero patience for him.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

There are plenty of reports of Jermaine tearing it up in practice he just never got much time to show it in the actual games. I know, I know; "We talking about practice?!, not a game, not a game."

 

[Tince]

Took me 0.01 seconds to answer Dame. Shocked so many people picked Ant.

Guess this falls under the category that everyones favorite QB is the backup.

 

[Natebishop3]

Took me 0.01 seconds to answer Dame. Shocked so many people picked Ant.

Guess this falls under the category that everyones favorite QB is the backup.

Nah. It’s time to scuttle the ship. Women and children first

 

[Ed O]

One player or the other, at the same salary, with no additional considerations? Dame all day, every day. He's an amazing player.

But that's not a realistic question.

Which player, given a certain salary and what we can get by trading the other? Lots of variables.

Ant at a third of the cost of Dame plus a good trade package for Dame? I'd probably rather have that than Dame under his current contract and let Ant walk... which I think is probably the most realistic set of variables.

 

[Ed O]

I choose Dame because I hate rebuilding every time a question like this comes up. Who’s to say we won’t be asking a similar question in 6-8 years or so? I just think and as long as he really wants to be here, You stay the course a try to win around Dame. Nobody on the team should be untouchable but Dame.

What's wrong with rebuilding every six to eight years? What team doesn't strike lightning in that amount of time?

This team has been bogged down for several years, and three of our four best players are all about 6'3" and the two guys who are outperforming their contracts (Nurk and Ant) need the ball more than they're going to get it with Dame and CJ in the lineup. It's time to make BIG changes, and that probably means trading Dame since CJ isn't worth much of anything given his contract.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

When one side of a debate can't comprehend the other side, it suggests intentionality.

 

[AldoTrapani]

I keep Dame....Ant doesn't have the body of work....if Ant slumps watch how fast the crowd stops cheering. The kid's been great...he's a scorer who's learning to pass the ball better...going into year 4 he's finally learning to be a pt guard....the kid needs his own team..This is Dames team for the forseeable future and if we can keep Ant and move the other two guys...great but not Dame.

Dame is 32 next year

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Absolutely Dame winning one here is preferable. Do you believe we have the Ownership, GM, and assets to trade without moving Dame to do that? I'm not saying they don't, but if we keep Dame, 2 of the 3 main things will be the same....Dame, and Ownership.

If you think ownership and the GM will prevent the team from contending with Dame why do you think the same ownership and GM have a better chance of contending without Dame?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Eh I’d say they were both pretty shit their first few years. Simons didn’t show much until last season. He’s a year older than Jermaine was. Jermaine was behind so much talent and Dunleavy had zero patience for him.

Ant being behind Dame, CJ, and Powell might have an argument that he was behind more talent than Jermaine.

 

[royo]

Ant at a third of the cost of Dame plus a good trade package for Dame?.

Dame and CJ could have chosen less money and search for another star. It was up to them.
I choose Ant. More logic here.

 

[royo]

would you take less pay so your competition could get paid and compete for your spot? Didn't think so......Duncan did it when he was close to retirement..not when he was looking for his first ring...logic. CJ isn't taking a pay cut for Ant anytime soon..fact is Ant is behind 3 veteran guards with high salaries......we can't pay a fourth. You pay Dame and see what you can shuffle from the other guards but Ant isn't a Dame Lillard at all...he's on a hot streak right now .....if you can move CJ and Norm you pay Ant accordingly...otherwise he's a 6 man when Dame gets back

It was discussed here many times. It is crazy amount of money. "Normal" people wouldn't make it working 500 years
I am not against it, it was their choice. It is a bussines and I am kinda happy they both are lot smarter with money than Iverson was. I respect that. But there is no need to talk about loyality, heart and other romantic things in this case, in my opinion.
We can have nice bunch of players for Lillard now and try to build around Ant. For me it looks like good time to do it.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dame and CJ could have chosen less money and search for another star. It was up to them.
I choose Ant. More logic here.

Dame did choose LESS money than the max on his 2nd contract. He was eligible for a max of 30% of the cap and settled for 27.5% of the cap so Olshey could do something with the additional. But Olshey just did his usual ego-infused-role-player shuffle

about the only time any NBA players took less, in their primes, than the max allowed was Chris Bosh so he could join Lebron and DWade in Miami

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Dame did choose LESS money than the max on his 2nd contract. He was eligible for a max of 30% of the cap and settled for 27.5% of the cap so Olshey could do something with the additional. But Olshey just did his usual ego-infused-role-player shuffle

about the only time any NBA players took less, in their primes, than the max allowed was Chris Bosh so he could join Lebron and DWade in Miami

Actually all 3 of them took less so Miami could sign Mike Miller.

Players shouldn't take less. It's a cheap way to game the system for extra talent. Durant also shouldn't sign with the 73 win warriors. Win where your a top player. Or we'll end up with 12 all stars on vet minium deals in NY and LA.

Later the Heat amnesty cut mike miller with the only benefit being luxury tax savings.

 

[royo]

Dame did choose LESS money than the max on his 2nd contract. He was eligible for a max of 30% of the cap and settled for 27.5% of the cap so Olshey could do something with the additional. But Olshey just did his usual ego-infused-role-player shuffle

about the only time any NBA players took less, in their primes, than the max allowed was Chris Bosh so he could join Lebron and DWade in Miami

So? I am not saying it's common thing to take less money to build better team. Your statement only proved it is possible. Neither Dame or CJ went this road, but at the same time both expressed desire to acquire good players for help.
Again, I'm not saying it is wrong and I don't expect anyone to agree. It is just my point of view on the forum. There was a question and this is how I see it.
As a fan I had a lot of great time watching Dame and CJ, but - at the end of a day - do they really play for me or for money?
I don't really understand how people can't imagine that you can take 10 millions instead of 20, win a ring and be happy. I mean, if ring would make you happy, in this situation you can actually kind of buy it
But all this philosophy aside I would trade Dame for a tones of gold coming back to Blazers and watch something new. I don't really believe in contending with this core anymore. I really hope Cronin can change my heart before deadline.

 

[Ed O]

I don't blame Dame for taking as much as the Blazers offered him... I think he might even be worth every dollar because he's so good. But I think that Ant can return more value per dollar on the upside and when a Dame trade package is added in, I think that it's more likely for the Blazers to win big by going that direction. I'm not slighting Dame when I make that judgment.

 

[e_blazer]

In my view, this whole question basically comes down to a matter of objectives. Are we trying to compete for a title starting next season? If so, you keep Dame and surround him with as many top players as possible. OTOH, if we view that as an unlikely objective to achieve within Dame's window, then the objective should be to rebuild as quickly as possible. In that event, the obvious plan has to be to trade Dame while he's at the peak of his demand, reap a haul of top player(s) and picks, and go about trying to compete within a time frame of 3-5 years.

 

[Tince]

Nah. It’s time to scuttle the ship. Women and children first

You just want there to actually be something to a "worst team in blazers history" thread don't you?

 

[Tince]

In my view, this whole question basically comes down to a matter of objectives. Are we trying to compete for a title starting next season? If so, you keep Dame and surround him with as many top players as possible. OTOH, if we view that as an unlikely objective to achieve within Dame's window, then the objective should be to rebuild as quickly as possible. In that event, the obvious plan has to be to trade Dame while he's at the peak of his demand, reap a haul of top player(s) and picks, and go about trying to compete within a time frame of 3-5 years.

What are the odds Ant or a couple lottery picks turn into a top 75 player in the NBA who decides to ride out 2 contracts before deciding to stay in Portland in his prime?

I'm assuming those odds are less than keeping a top 75 player in his prime who is already in Portland.

 

[TBpup]

If you think ownership and the GM will prevent the team from contending with Dame why do you think the same ownership and GM have a better chance of contending without Dame?

Jody is likely to see in a year or two so Ant would be free to have a real roster put around him.

What are the odds Ant or a couple lottery picks turn into a top 75 player in the NBA who decides to ride out 2 contracts before deciding to stay in Portland in his prime?

I'm assuming those odds are less than keeping a top 75 player in his prime who is already in Portland.

Love the top 75 player. Less than thrilled about the results during that time here. So him riding out his contracts has meant what from a contending status? That doesn't make me a Dame hater and no, it's not all his fault. It just is what has happened.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Rebuilding is NEVER fun. Ask OKC how fun it is. ZZZzzzzzzzz

I don’t Know….I’m more frustrated watching the team stay in purgatory Year after year!

 

[e_blazer]

What are the odds Ant or a couple lottery picks turn into a top 75 player in the NBA who decides to ride out 2 contracts before deciding to stay in Portland in his prime?

I'm assuming those odds are less than keeping a top 75 player in his prime who is already in Portland.

I have no problem at all in sticking with Dame, in fact I hope that’s the plan. A rebuild comes with no more guarantee of success than a reboot around Dame. That said, whatever the choice is, it has to be done with an objective in mind. Keeping Dame, but failing to put enough talent around him to have a chance to compete does a disservice to Dame, his teammates and the fans. If moves can’t be found that really move the meter towards that objective, it would be irresponsible not to get the best value for Dame while helping him win a title elsewhere. Cronin seems like a smart guy. I think he can figure it out.

 

[Tince]

Jody is likely to see in a year or two so Ant would be free to have a real roster put around him.



Love the top 75 player. Less than thrilled about the results during that time here. So him riding out his contracts has meant what from a contending status? That doesn't make me a Dame hater and no, it's not all his fault. It just is what has happened.

You certainly are not a Dame hater, I agree with that. However, the logic of saying you don't love the results of a top 75 player, so switching him out for a player who has had a great month and lottery picks (unlikely to be top 75 players) seems like a low probability strategy to turn them into contenders.

Of the players on the all-nba Top 75 list, I was unable to find one who was surrounded by less talent in their prime than Dame. This is the drum I've been banging over and over for years. We're not one small step away, we've been a big and moderate addition away.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The drama Ant has created!!! Im outraged!!! As sly would say

 

[TBpup]

Him staying a Blazer means he has many years to bring a championship or try to Portland....as far as contending...he's a gold medal Olympian with a bright future.....so you might not hate Dame but you're throwing him away in his prime merely over him not winning a ring so far here? Who's the unicorn who's going to do that for you? Dame is your best shot and he's hardly "riding out" his contract....he competes as hard as any player you could trade him for....sorry....disliking the Olshey decade is one thing.....dumping your franchise maybe greatest Blazer ever is quite another....I don't see the magical upside to having a dumpster fire that includes one of the greatest players you've ever had at 31..and Dame's 31 isn't a Kobe Ant or Melo 18-19 year old draftee..in comparison Dame at 31.has been in the league since 22 ....he was a 4 year college guy.
Not trying to argue...just find it baffling that folks would even go there when it comes to this guy....if ever there was a keeper in Portland it's Damian Lillard....

There you go again. Attributing or suggesting something to me that I never came close to saying. Search as long as you want and you won't find where I've said anything like that. What is with the distortion as of late? Not interesting enough to you to just reply to the actual post, but instead have to make stuff up? Been way too much of this as of late.

As for 'riding out his contract', that was obviously (see the quote) responding to someone else who made that statement. Come on, be better than that.

 

[Tince]

I have no problem at all in sticking with Dame, in fact I hope that’s the plan. A rebuild comes with no more guarantee of success than a reboot around Dame. That said, whatever the choice is, it has to be done with an objective in mind. Keeping Dame, but failing to put enough talent around him to have a chance to compete does a disservice to Dame, his teammates and the fans. If moves can’t be found that really move the meter towards that objective, it would be irresponsible not to get the best value for Dame while helping him win a title elsewhere. Cronin seems like a smart guy. I think he can figure it out.

I agree with this. No player on this roster is untouchable, including Dame. If we get calls for Luka, Morant, Giannis, etc. you take it and make the trade today. I highly doubt those trade calls are coming though.

 

[TBpup]

You certainly are not a Dame hater, I agree with that. However, the logic of saying you don't love the results of a top 75 player, so switching him out for a player who has had a great month and lottery picks (unlikely to be top 75 players) seems like a low probability strategy to turn them into contenders.

Of the players on the all-nba Top 75 list, I was unable to find one who was surrounded by less talent in their prime than Dame. This is the drum I've been banging over and over for years. We're not one small step away, we've been a big and moderate addition away.

I was referring to the team results, not him as an individual. And who knows if Ant turns them into a contender. But that hasn't happened so far, so not sure what the contrast is. Also, you would be trying (again) to get to contender status with the assets Dame would bring along with Ant's contract of perhaps around $20M vs Dame's $42.5M next year. That is Ant + assets + a $22M player. Again, it's not a pro trade Dame thing. But the reality of the results and the financial situation/cap management can not be dismissed.

 

[Hoopguru]

I still think between the GM and Billups we can piece together a contending team around Dame. Lets see how things go after the season and during off-season. If Joe doesnt do anything before the deadline I look at that as he's only going to be an interim gm till the hire another in off-season.