OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

[crandc]

If you have to ask then you need to wear an impact, lol.

Or a crucifix.

No fucking way is a Jewish born atheist wearing a crucifix.

 

[crandc]

Always the marginalized people being told to be understanding. Ask straight white males to be understanding and get accused of wokeism, political correctness, critical race theory or being a snowflake.

 

[ABM]

Uh-huh, "I went to Portland and a trans person was mean to me! HELP!"

Sounds like you found the encounter you were looking for. Congrats!

Bull. As a mod, I'm certain you're well aware that many folks in here share many various encounters - pro, con, indifferent, etc. - they experience on any given occasion. It's all part of the dynamic of this forum. I think I adequately explained my feelings and hopes on the matter. Please don't try and read into something that isn't there. Thanks.

 

[ABM]

"I stopped at a roadside fruit and vegetable stand, I went up and asked the lightly brown-skinned man how much are the strawberries? He took the strawberries and started throwing them about me while yelling, I'm an illegal alien, I hate you, white people! Pick your own fucking strawberries."

- ABM

Jerkish response. You stay classy.

 

[barfo]

Bull. As a mod, I'm certain you're well aware that many folks in here share many various encounters - pro, con, indifferent, etc. - they experience on any given occasion. It's all part of the dynamic of this forum. I think I adequately explained my feelings and hopes on the matter. Please don't try and read into something that isn't there. Thanks.

Bull. As a poster, I'm certain you're well aware that many folks in here react to various encounters - pro, con, indifferent, etc. - you post on any given occasion. It's all part of the dynamic of this forum. I think Sly adequately explained his feelings on the matter. Please don't try and read into something that isn't there. Thanks.

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

I related in another thread that, upon finishing my meal at a Portland restaurant, I said, "Thank you, Sir" to the server that I thought was a man, but, apparently, was a trans. They said, "That's Ma'am", along with a bit of a stink-eye tude.

I'm sorry, I'm not gonna try and figure this thing out. You're gonna get what you're gonna get from me, and I'll be cordial.

See above. Problem solved.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Apparently it’s an extremely cold day in hell today, but I tend to side with ABM on this one. I have NO problem whatsoever with transgendered people, LBGT people, straight people etc (just assholes in general). But with more and more “transgendering” (for lack of a better word) going on, it CAN be confusing. Especially if you come into a town like Portland from a state like Tennessee (no stereotyping intended). Transgender people are practically ubiquitous around the PDX area. I can only assume that some are either at the beginning of the transition, or smack dab in the middle. Again, it can be very confusing. And as much as I would honestly like to respect their choices and address them by their preferred honorific, I find it easier to just react to them as I would pretty much anyone else; gender neutral, thank you for the service. That way no one is offended if I don’t get it right. All that said, respect and understanding are a two way street. Some transgendered people are almost deliberately testy and confrontational. Again, I get that. They’ve spent a lifetime pondering their identities, their sanity, etc, all the while being “targets” for a narrow minded society. That would make me cranky and defensive too. But by being a rude and defensive, that individual that ABM encountered only dug the chasm deeper. It should have been a teaching moment by that transgender individual. Oh, I’m sure ABM “learned” something, if only not to make assumptions. But it could have been so much more than it was. It takes two to tango (or tangle) and the individual ABM met sounds at least as much unenlightened as they felt ABM was. If the transgendered want understanding from a society that “doesn’t get it”, they are going to have to try and understand “our” ignorance and help “us” work through it. Seems to me the individual ABM met failed too………

 

[riverman]

Apparently it’s an extremely cold day in hell today, but I tend to side with ABM on this one. I have NO problem whatsoever with transgendered people, LBGT people, straight people etc (just assholes in general). But with more and more “transgendering” (for lack of a better word) going on, it CAN be confusing. Especially if you come into a town like Portland from a state like Tennessee (no stereotyping intended). Transgender people are practically ubiquitous around the PDX area. I can only assume that some are either at the beginning of the transition, or smack dab in the middle. Again, it can be very confusing. And as much as I would honestly like to respect their choices and address them by their preferred honorific, I find it easier to just react to them as I would pretty much anyone else; gender neutral, thank you for the service. That way no one is offended if I don’t get it right. All that said, respect and understanding are a two way street. Some transgendered people are almost deliberately testy and confrontational. Again, I get that. They’ve spent a lifetime pondering their identities, their sanity, etc, all the while being “targets” for a narrow minded society. That would make me cranky and defensive too. But by being a rude and defensive, that individual that ABM encountered only dug the chasm deeper. It should have been a teaching moment by that transgender individual. Oh, I’m sure ABM “learned” something, if only not to make assumptions. But it could have been so much more than it was. It takes two to tango (or tangle) and the individual ABM met sounds at least as much unenlightened as they felt ABM was. If the transgendered want understanding from a society that “doesn’t get it”, they are going to try and understand “our” ignorance and help “us” work through it. Seems to me the individual ABM met failed too………

like I said..if a waiter, waitress, hotel clerk or anybody is rude or snarky that's not cool...but if someone corrects my pronouns and addresses it...I'll be the one apologizing...then I'll probably not leave much tip or give them repeat business.....I'd definitely apologize if called out for mistaking someone's gender and try and learn a lesson in assuming these things...the title of ABM's thread is about trying to figure it out...not blowing it off and lumping all transexuals into one snarky person's camp

 

[ABM]

Apparently it’s an extremely cold day in hell today, but I tend to side with ABM on this one. I have NO problem whatsoever with transgendered people, LBGT people, straight people etc (just assholes in general). But with more and more “transgendering” (for lack of a better word) going on, it CAN be confusing. Especially if you come into a town like Portland from a state like Tennessee (no stereotyping intended). Transgender people are practically ubiquitous around the PDX area. I can only assume that some are either at the beginning of the transition, or smack dab in the middle. Again, it can be very confusing. And as much as I would honestly like to respect their choices and address them by their preferred honorific, I find it easier to just react to them as I would pretty much anyone else; gender neutral, thank you for the service. That way no one is offended if I don’t get it right. All that said, respect and understanding are a two way street. Some transgendered people are almost deliberately testy and confrontational. Again, I get that. They’ve spent a lifetime pondering their identities, their sanity, etc, all the while being “targets” for a narrow minded society. That would make me cranky and defensive too. But by being a rude and defensive, that individual that ABM encountered only dug the chasm deeper. It should have been a teaching moment by that transgender individual. Oh, I’m sure ABM “learned” something, if only not to make assumptions. But it could have been so much more than it was. It takes two to tango (or tangle) and the individual ABM met sounds at least as much unenlightened as they felt ABM was. If the transgendered want understanding from a society that “doesn’t get it”, they are going to try and understand “our” ignorance and help “us” work through it. Seems to me the individual ABM met failed too………

Thank you. You nailed my sentiments exactly. Cheers.

 

[e_blazer]

Apparently it’s an extremely cold day in hell today, but I tend to side with ABM on this one. I have NO problem whatsoever with transgendered people, LBGT people, straight people etc (just assholes in general). But with more and more “transgendering” (for lack of a better word) going on, it CAN be confusing. Especially if you come into a town like Portland from a state like Tennessee (no stereotyping intended). Transgender people are practically ubiquitous around the PDX area. I can only assume that some are either at the beginning of the transition, or smack dab in the middle. Again, it can be very confusing. And as much as I would honestly like to respect their choices and address them by their preferred honorific, I find it easier to just react to them as I would pretty much anyone else; gender neutral, thank you for the service. That way no one is offended if I don’t get it right. All that said, respect and understanding are a two way street. Some transgendered people are almost deliberately testy and confrontational. Again, I get that. They’ve spent a lifetime pondering their identities, their sanity, etc, all the while being “targets” for a narrow minded society. That would make me cranky and defensive too. But by being a rude and defensive, that individual that ABM encountered only dug the chasm deeper. It should have been a teaching moment by that transgender individual. Oh, I’m sure ABM “learned” something, if only not to make assumptions. But it could have been so much more than it was. It takes two to tango (or tangle) and the individual ABM met sounds at least as much unenlightened as they felt ABM was. If the transgendered want understanding from a society that “doesn’t get it”, they are going to try and understand “our” ignorance and help “us” work through it. Seems to me the individual ABM met failed too………

Good points and I pretty much agree. There's a person in our neighborhood that we frequently pass on our walks who is, by appearance, biologically female but by attire and hair style seems to prefer to present as male. I have no way of knowing whether "she" is a female who is a cross dresser simply because "she" likes to dress as a male from a style standpoint, is a lesbian but still considers "herself" to be female, or identifies as male and "he" is at some stage of making that transition. Nor do I care in the least about "his"/"her" personal choice with respect to any of that. We say hi and have casual interactions as we meet and that's the extent of it. But we have these damned things in the English language called "pronouns" and it's really difficult to converse with someone without using a gender-specific pronoun. It's becoming a thing in many government/corporate emails for a person to include their choices of pronouns in their contact information. Maybe we will reach a stage where we develop a set of gender-neutral pronouns (the use of "they" or "it" really doesn't cut it in my book). Maybe we'll all start wearing nametags with our pronoun choices on them. Until something like that happens, I think that even with the best of intentions we're going to make mistakes and people on both sides of the gender identity divide are going to need to show a little grace.

 

[julius]

Forgive me if I have my doubts that this actually happened, or if it did, happened in the manner implied.

It screams "dear penthouse"

 

[tlongII]

We’re worried about fucking pronouns now? Jesus Christ.

 

[riverman]

We’re worried about fucking pronouns now? Jesus Christ.

People learn about pronouns all the time...see Meyers Leonard....there are some pronouns you just don't want to use this day and age ..travel in asia and there are many short haired girls who could be mistaken for boys and boys who could easily be mistaken for short haired girls...the idea is not to make assumptions.....I used to use endearing pronouns like sweetie but those are risky as well coming from an old guy...I adapt to language all throughout my life....it's a good thing especially when addressing strangers...

 

[barfo]

We’re worried about fucking pronouns now? Jesus Christ.

We are indeed, Ma'am.

barfo

 

[ABM]

Kind of a funny aside: I recently dined at a lovely Seattle restaurant (Ivar's Salmon House) with my wife and extended family. I said, "Thank you, Ma'am") to the young lady who brought me a spoon or such. My Niece looked over and humorously scolded me saying that I should have called her "Miss" as she was probably in her twenties. Hence, way to young to be called a Ma'am. Yeesh, yet another Rodney Dangerfield moment.

 

[tlongII]

We are indeed, Ma'am.

barfo

Please don't trigger me.

 

[tlongII]

People learn about pronouns all the time...see Meyers Leonard....there are some pronouns you just don't want to use this day and age ..travel in asia and there are many short haired girls who could be mistaken for boys and boys who could easily be mistaken for short haired girls...the idea is not to make assumptions.....I used to use endearing pronouns like sweetie but those are risky as well coming from an old guy...I adapt to language all throughout my life....it's a good thing especially when addressing strangers...

I always try to treat people with courtesy and respect. The world is too soft today though.

 

[Lanny]

Always the marginalized people being told to be understanding. Ask straight white males to be understanding and get accused of wokeism, political correctness, critical race theory or being a snowflake.

In my opinion criticism of political correctness shows a complete misunderstanding of what political correctness really is and gives that person another excuse to stick a thumb in the eye of someone who knows the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground.

 

[ABM]

In my opinion criticism of political correctness shows a complete misunderstanding of what political correctness really is and gives that person another excuse to stick a thumb in the eye of someone who knows the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground.

 

[Lanny]

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I have no idea what that means.
But to elaborate on political correctness, it's nothing more than good manners when dealing with as group such as Blacks or Native Americans. What group doesn't want respect? The Trump cult demands respect but doesn't want to give it and that's the very definition of greed.

 

[crandc]

I have no idea what that means.
But to elaborate on political correctness, it's nothing more than good manners when dealing with as group such as Blacks or Native Americans. What group doesn't want respect? The Trump cult demands respect but doesn't want to give it and that's the very definition of greed.

Absolutely. Somehow in the 90s what used to be called courtesy was rebranded political correctness and viciousness praised as politically incorrect.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Absolutely. Somehow in the 90s what used to be called courtesy was rebranded political correctness and viciousness praised as politically incorrect.

And we used to at least have enough self awareness as a society (in general) to try and keep our shortcomings covered under (at least) a thin veneer of civility. Then Trump came along and smashed that veneer with a sledge hammer. And it’s obvious that too many groups and individuals have (and never really have had) any real use for courtesy and respect all along. So now they don’t have to even try to control themselves and their behaviors. Suddenly, it’s “okay”. I’m still struggling to wrap my mind around how that will make America “great again”……..

 

[tlongII]

And we used to at least have enough self awareness as a society (in general) to try and keep our shortcomings covered under (at least) a thin veneer of civility. Then Trump came along and smashed that veneer with a sledge hammer. And it’s obvious that too many groups and individuals have (and never really have had) any real use for courtesy and respect all along. So now they don’t have to even try to control themselves and their behaviors. Suddenly, it’s “okay”. I’m still struggling to wrap my mind around how that will make America “great again”……..

That's not true at all in my opinion. People have been much more disrespectful in the past than they are now. The difference is in how people react to it now.

 

[crandc]

Started before Trump although he magnified it. Really got going with the rise of right wing radio like Limbaugh and with Gingrich becoming speaker. Ones opponent was no longer an American with a different viewpoint but an enemy to be absolutely destroyed, no holds barred, no facts needed.

 

[Hoopguru]

Being respectful and showing courtesy, along with being able to humbly apologize when you make a mistake, are keys to being civil.
Be careful not to harden your heart and swallow your tears and don let the sun go down with hate.
What ever happened to do a good deed daily for someone?

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

That's not true at all in my opinion. People have been much more disrespectful in the past than they are now. The difference is in how people react to it now.

Hmmmmmm……………I’m struggling to recall another president in my lifetime who stood up publicly (and viciously) to disrespect Gold Star parents, war veterans, the handicapped, science and scientists, and all other manner of Americans who didn’t support his personal agenda. I don’t recall another president calling me a cheater because I did not vote for them….and then try to invalidate my vote. There’s a reason we react differently now, because Trump in particular and the Republican Party in general has made it okay. I know you weren’t trying to, but your statement pretty much supports my previous point……..

 

[tlongII]

Hmmmmmm……………I’m struggling to recall another president in my lifetime who stood up publicly (and viciously) to disrespect Gold Star parents, war veterans, the handicapped, science and scientists, and all other manner of Americans who didn’t support his personal agenda. I don’t recall another president calling me a cheater because I did not vote for them….and then try to invalidate my vote. There’s a reason we react differently now, because Trump in particular and the Republican Party in general has made it okay. I know you weren’t trying to, but your statement pretty much supports my previous point……..

I'm not sure how old you are, but I was born in 58. I'm not talking about the behavior of the president, I'm talking about the behavior of people in general. People were MUCH more disrespectful in the 70's and 80's than they are now. The difference is now they can't get away with it without being called out.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I'm not sure how old you are, but I was born in 58. I'm not talking about the behavior of the president, I'm talking about the behavior of people in general. People were MUCH more disrespectful in the 70's and 80's than they are now. The difference is now they can't get away with it without being called out.

I just turned 67. And maybe it’s the way we were brought up? I was brought up in total Catholic immersion for the first 18 years of my life. Yeah, yeah, I know, plenty of rude and obnoxious Catholics (and other denominations) out there (and then some) but I’m just saying that, in my bubble growing up, we got our asses handed to us for being rude and/or disrespectful. No two ways about it. And that was how I was launched into the world. I didn’t see a lot of what we’re seeing today (though the public school kids could be pretty pricky). And the organization I worked for the last 28+ years of my working life held us similarly (and firmly) accountable for professional (also known as respectful) behaviors. Personally I just consider it a necessary part of being an “adult”. And for 67 years I have spent a lot of time pondering why it is so hard for so many individuals (national “leaders” in particular) to understand and follow the Golden Rule. It just ain’t that hard…….we get what we give. And if we give shit, we get shit. So why knowingly and willingly bring it on ourselves????………But again, that’s just how I was raised.

 

[ABM]

I have no idea what that means.
But to elaborate on political correctness, it's nothing more than good manners when dealing with as group such as Blacks or Native Americans. What group doesn't want respect? The Trump cult demands respect but doesn't want to give it and that's the very definition of greed.

I just found it a bit amusing that many in here thought I owed a trans restaurant server an apology when I was simply being courteous and respectful. Is it my fault that I got their newfound gender wrong? No, it's not. Next time, if there's even a question in my mind, I'll simply smile and say, "Thanks, you."

 

[tlongII]

I just turned 67. And maybe it’s the way we were brought up? I was brought up in total Catholic immersion for the first 18 years of my life. Yeah, yeah, I know, plenty of rude and obnoxious Catholics (and other denominations) out there (and then some) but I’m just saying that, in my bubble growing up, we got our asses handed to us for being rude and/or disrespectful. No two ways about it. And that was how I was launched into the world. I didn’t see a lot of what we’re seeing today (though the public school kids could be pretty pricky). And the organization I worked for the last 28+ years of my working life held us similarly (and firmly) accountable for professional (also known as respectful) behaviors. Personally I just consider it a necessary part of being an “adult”. And for 67 years I have spent a lot of time pondering why it is so hard for so many individuals (national “leaders” in particular) to understand and follow the Golden Rule. It just ain’t that hard…….we get what we give. And if we give shit, we get shit. So why knowingly and willingly bring it on ourselves????………But again, that’s just how I was raised.

I was raised similarly, but I encountered so much derision when I was younger that I think it was much worse back then. Just my opinion.