Exclusive I'm not sold on Dame/Ant

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KSF-ERIC said:
Your context was Travis Outlaw sucked and I disagree.
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The fact that you think that was my contention proves that you didn't read the context.
 
Any way that Hart could be SG insurance if we sign and trade Ant in the offseason?

Dame
Hart
NAS
Grant
Nurk

whoever we get in S&T for Ant
2 FRP
MLE
 
Last night against Denver, Dame scored 31 on 62.5% shooting (57% from 3), and Ant scored 29 on 64.7% shooting, (58% from 3).

In the entire Dame/CJ starting era, they played 415 games together.
Only 32 times did they both score 28+.
Only 6 of those had both over 50% 3P.
Only once were both over 60% from the field (12/20/19 against the Magic).

It is arguable that Dame/Ant were as good or better combined last night against Denver than any game in the Dame/CJ history.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Last night against Denver, Dame scored 31 on 62.5% shooting (57% from 3), and Ant scored 29 on 64.7% shooting, (58% from 3).

In the entire Dame/CJ starting era, they played 415 games together.
Only 32 times did they both score 28+.
Only 6 of those had both over 50% 3P.
Only once were both over 60% from the field (12/20/19 against the Magic).

It is arguable that Dame/Ant were as good or better combined last night against Denver than any game in the Dame/CJ history.
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they only played 50 games (on average) in the 8 years they played together?
 
julius said:
they only played 50 games (on average) in the 8 years they played together?
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I evaluated the years CJ started, so 15-16 through 21-22 (until the NOP trade). The team played 529 games in that span (4 *82 + 74 + 72 + 55). Dame played 465 of those games, CJ played 464, and 415 together. Only 20 of those were last season. In the 6 complete seasons of Dame/CJ starting together, they played 395 games together, or an average of 67/year.
 
STOMP said:
lol, good to see you've got your bases covered.

STOMP
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Yes, back in February, immediately after the CJ trade, I wanted to see Hart start. After Ant got his $100M contract, I said that he will start.

Reasonable people can change position after new information arises.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Let's theorize that the strategy is to move forward with Dame/Simons as the starting backcourt.

I'm not sold on this being any different/better than Dame and CJ.

CJ's best season was 2016-2017. He was 25 years old. He played most of the season. He shot the lights out.

View attachment 45050

Statistically CJ was better defensively than Ant is now. I see this as Ant's likely ceiling if paired with Dame.

View attachment 45051

I get that we could essentially have a chance of replicating CJ's offensive production at a cheaper price, but why the heck would we run it back with a younger CJ and an older Dame? It doesn't make sense to me. It's like we didn't learn anything from the past. The problem with this team hasn't necessarily been a lack of talent... it has been a flawed design, and it sure doesn't seem like we're changing it up.
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No shame at all making this thread and posting it last February. You were not alone with this line of thought.
I still wonder if they come up against a team that is longer and better defenders that might give them fits?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Last night against Denver, Dame scored 31 on 62.5% shooting (57% from 3), and Ant scored 29 on 64.7% shooting, (58% from 3).

In the entire Dame/CJ starting era, they played 415 games together.
Only 32 times did they both score 28+.
Only 6 of those had both over 50% 3P.
Only once were both over 60% from the field (12/20/19 against the Magic).

It is arguable that Dame/Ant were as good or better combined last night against Denver than any game in the Dame/CJ history.
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Huge stat right there. Dare I say that it is surprising to see?

Nice info
 
Fairly-Hard said:
No shame at all making this thread and posting it last February. You were not alone with this line of thought.
I still wonder if they come up against a team that is longer and better defenders that might give them fits?
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BTW--just want to make sure it's noted that I didn't use this thread to call out the OP; I just didn't want to start a new "Dame/Ant" thread when one already existed.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I evaluated the years CJ started, so 15-16 through 21-22 (until the NOP trade). The team played 529 games in that span (4 *82 + 74 + 72 + 55). Dame played 465 of those games, CJ played 464, and 415 together. Only 20 of those were last season. In the 6 complete seasons of Dame/CJ starting together, they played 395 games together, or an average of 67/year.
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Crazy, I would've assumed it was more even WITH injuries.
 
PDXFonz said:
Huge stat right there. Dare I say that it is surprising to see?

Nice info
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@wizenheimer has historically loved to refer to their backcourt style as "your turn, my turn", and he's not wrong. Now, if we're just looking at the 20-point threshold, they surpassed that together 190 times. But even looking at 25 points, they both broke that just 62 times. It was actually pretty rare to see them both have an above-average game on the same night. And to do so particularly efficiently was basically unheard of.

Here's another version of that--only 6 times did both score over 25 on fewer than 20 FGA each. The best of those games was against Phoenix, 4/1/17. Last night, Dame/Ant were better.
 
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I enjoy going back and rewatching pre/post draft videos of NBA players.

Idk if I actually saw this one 4 years ago. Love the story about the first time he dunked.
 
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One thing I rarely see mentioned in the Dame/CJ vs Dame/Ant comparisons is shooting range.

CJ tended to shoot right at the three point line. He has a bit more range than that, but I always felt like he liked to use his dribble to set himself up either for the closest three he could get or a midrange shot.

Ant is more of a catch-and-shoot guy. If he catches it and he's 2 feet behind the line and he's open, he's bombing it without hesitation. He doesn't have Dame range (or at least not that I've seen), but you can imagine him having it in another couple of years of practice.

On the three point line Ant's style is a lot scarier to cover. You give him space and it's airborn. There's no recovery, no rotation of defender. He's not doing a hesi or a side step or a dribble drive or something else that gives the defense a second. It's just up. It distorts defenses. You can not leave him. You can see how that works a lot better with a guy like Dame, who can use that extra half step of space to create a driving or passing lane.
 
Couple thoughts...

First - that was literally the first game where he shot well. The other three he shot like ass.
upload_2022-10-25_9-12-56.png

Second - it's not offense that I'm worried about. I guess we'll see how it plays out over the season. 4 games is a tiny sample size. I think Sharpe looks really promising and I'm not sure if he is a two or a three. I tend to lean more towards a two. I think it would be best if we cashed in on Ant for a star quality small forward if we're REALLY going to try to win a chip with Dame.
 
I haven't seen enough to convince me yet. Would still consider a trade like Anf and Watford for Myles Turner and Duarte.
 
mook said:
One thing I rarely see mentioned in the Dame/CJ vs Dame/Ant comparisons is shooting range.

CJ tended to shoot right at the three point line. He has a bit more range than that, but I always felt like he liked to use his dribble to set himself up either for the closest three he could get or a midrange shot.

Ant is more of a catch-and-shoot guy. If he catches it and he's 2 feet behind the line and he's open, he's bombing it without hesitation. He doesn't have Dame range (or at least not that I've seen), but you can imagine him having it in another couple of years of practice.

On the three point line Ant's style is a lot scarier to cover. You give him space and it's airborn. There's no recovery, no rotation of defender. He's not doing a hesi or a side step or a dribble drive or something else that gives the defense a second. It's just up. It distorts defenses. You can not leave him. You can see how that works a lot better with a guy like Dame, who can use that extra half step of space to create a driving or passing lane.
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He may not have Dame range yet but I didn't know he had that range either! So he has already stepped it out (last night at least), immensely.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Couple thoughts...

First - that was literally the first game where he shot well. The other three he shot like ass.
View attachment 50365
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And the biggest difference between these? This was the first game the Blazers really ran off-the-ball screens to get Ant free. Ant can create his own shot, but he is so much more dangerous when you get him in catch and shoot, or catch, dribble twice and shoot situations.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Couple thoughts...

First - that was literally the first game where he shot well. The other three he shot like ass.
View attachment 50365

Second - it's not offense that I'm worried about. I guess we'll see how it plays out over the season. 4 games is a tiny sample size. I think Sharpe looks really promising and I'm not sure if he is a two or a three. I tend to lean more towards a two. I think it would be best if we cashed in on Ant for a star quality small forward if we're REALLY going to try to win a chip with Dame.
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40.9% isn't "ass". And 65% isn't "well". I suspect Ant will settle into the 42-44% FG%. 65% isn't sustainable and it's unrealistic to expect as much. He's just above 42% for his career. CJ is, what, 45-46? He's slightly improved over time, and I suspect Ant will, as well.
 
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