Politics Immigrants and refugees

[blue32]

What is an executive order?
Basically, an executive order is an official statement from the president about how the federal agencies he oversees are to use their resources.

It falls under the broader umbrella of “executive actions,” which derive their power from Article II of the Constitution, and it is the most formal executive action. Executive actions also include presidential memorandums (which are a step below executive orders and basically outline the administration's position on a policy issue), proclamations and directives.

An executive order is not the president creating new law or appropriating new money from the U.S. Treasury — both things that are the domain of Congress; it is the president instructing the government how it is to work within the parameters that are already set by Congress and the Constitution.

 

[Denny Crane]

So why was there a stay?? If it so legally clear...

Due process concerns.

A stay does not mean the E.O. is unlawful, just that the court wants a full hearing on the issue before any potential injury happens.

Realize I am not in favor of this E.O.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

"thought" doesn't mean "is". She made somewhat of a martyr out of herself. She was days away from stepping down. This is all a show she put on.

I have absolutely no doubt the majority of her actions were premeditated, and she has my undying respect for throwing herself on her sword in support of established American values and principles. She made a statement by standing up to a delusional bully. This person is a hero by any definition. And if you think this kind of dissent is going to fade away, keep on deluding yourself. Remember how the Republicans spent so much time, money and hatred on Bill Clinton for White Water, Lewinsky et al? What's coming is going to make that look like amateur hour. I certainly don't advocate that kind of train wreck because we all lose, but the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. It just keeps getting uglier.

 

[Denny Crane]

I have absolutely no doubt the majority of her actions were premeditated, and she has my undying respect for throwing herself on her sword in support of established American values and principles. She made a statement by standing up to a delusional bully. This person is a hero by any definition. And if you think this kind of dissent is going to fade away, keep on deluding yourself. Remember how the Republicans spent so much time, money and hatred on Bill Clinton for White Water, Lewinsky et al? What's coming is going to make that look like amateur hour. I certainly don't advocate that kind of train wreck because we all lose, but the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. It just keeps getting uglier.

She should have just resigned. That would have made Trump look bad.

Insubordination just gives her firing merit.

 

[blue32]

I have absolutely no doubt the majority of her actions were premeditated, and she has my undying respect for throwing herself on her sword in support of established American values and principles. She made a statement by standing up to a delusional bully. This person is a hero by any definition. And if you think this kind of dissent is going to fade away, keep on deluding yourself. Remember how the Republicans spent so much time, money and hatred on Bill Clinton for White Water, Lewinsky et al? What's coming is going to make that look like amateur hour. I certainly don't advocate that kind of train wreck because we all lose, but the Republicans have no one to blame but themselves. It just keeps getting uglier.

What are you so upset about? He's doing everything he said he would do during his campaign. This is nothing new.

What is so wrong about the travel ban? These countries harbor terrorists and have been proven so by Obama's State department.

Are you upset about the refugee ban? You do understand Obama's security heads ALL indicated that Syrian refugees were being infiltrated by ISIS.

I understand some honest people got caught up in the travel ban, but that shit will work itself out over the coming days/weeks. They will lift the ban once the vetting procedures are drawn up...

I guess I just don't see the problem w/securing our country from outsiders that are proven to want to destroy the American way of life. Muslim cultures does not fit in with America, I mean, come on, you have Starbucks in Saudi Arabia with room dividers to keep women away from men, and they have the balls to chastise the conservatives about equality? They're doing business in a country that degrades and devalues women and gays.

 

[stampedehero]

Americans: not the moral exemplars they take themselves to be:

Historical facts are not mentioned in the all mighty media.

 

[stampedehero]

-Trump should use Paul Joseph Watsons rant and let a media jock take the abuse for awhile. Merker's policy is damaging but she wants to show that Germany is not associated with the Nazis from 80 years ago.

 

[stampedehero]

Americans: not the moral exemplars they take themselves to be:

1946 is the year of greatest disparity. Only if Trump terminated all military involvement in Muslim nations and let their own adopt the refugees. I did not see the Saudis volunteer. Shite and Sunnis hate each other. With our presence in their backyard they can solidify their combined hate against the pasty face American government. .

 

[Denny Crane]

Here's another point of information to consider.

The man who is replacing the fired acting AG is also an Obama appointee and is willing to enforce the E.O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's another point of information to consider.

The man who is replacing the fired acting AG is also an Obama appointee and is willing to enforce the E.O.

So maybe it's actually a point of principle that they disagree on, and it's not a question of "loyalty" to Trump? So maybe Trump just fired somebody because her legal opinion was not to his liking?

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

What are you so upset about? He's doing everything he said he would do during his campaign. This is nothing new.

What is so wrong about the travel ban? These countries harbor terrorists and have been proven so by Obama's State department.

Are you upset about the refugee ban? You do understand Obama's security heads ALL indicated that Syrian refugees were being infiltrated by ISIS.

I understand some honest people got caught up in the travel ban, but that shit will work itself out over the coming days/weeks. They will lift the ban once the vetting procedures are drawn up...

I guess I just don't see the problem w/securing our country from outsiders that are proven to want to destroy the American way of life. Muslim cultures does not fit in with America, I mean, come on, you have Starbucks in Saudi Arabia with room dividers to keep women away from men, and they have the balls to chastise the conservatives about equality? They're doing business in a country that degrades and devalues women and gays.

As I mentioned previously about disagreeing with each other....ways and means. The man did it with little input from the people qualified to give that input, especially the acting AG. He did it in such a way to create maximum chaos and inconvenience (not just to foreigners). He knowingly (I say that assuming he's smart enough to "get it") violated the right to due process (Denny can split hairs all he wants, due process was still violated). He made the USA look incredibly stupid and hostile to the rest of the world. And most telling, he left countries like Saudi Arabia (the worst of the worst) off the list. Which tells me the whole shit show is nothing more than passion play for the folks at home that needed to see a little sleight of hand in order to believe Trump really does have their best interests at heart. It's political theater using other peoples lives to create an illusion. Nothing different than most presidents have done, he just chose to use a bludgeon instead of a scalpel. And now you have a prime example of a screed. You're welcome......

 

[Rastapopoulos]

She should have given her guidance to the president in person and in private.

Her public defiance and statement dared Trump to fire her and fire her he did. Rightly so.

Good riddance.

So no doubt Trump will be firing James Comey for doing exactly the same thing before the election? And I guess Sessions was unclear about exactly how you should disobey the president here:

 

[Denny Crane]

So maybe it's actually a point of principle that they disagree on, and it's not a question of "loyalty" to Trump? So maybe Trump just fired somebody because her legal opinion was not to his liking?

She was fired for insubordination. And rightly so.

 

[crandc]

A Syrian Christian family, after 12 years, was turned away at the airport in Philadelphia due to the ban. Link: http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/us/syrian-family-trump-travel-ban/
(I suppose you can pretend it's "fake news" since it came from CNN.)

Sarmad Assali and her daughter, Sarah, are among the relatives who were waiting to welcome the families to the United States. Sarmad Assali said they received a call from authorities Saturday morning telling them their relatives would not be allowed to enter the country.
The Assalis, US citizens who live in Allentown, Pennsylvania, weren't able to make contact with their family members until they were already headed back overseas. One of the brothers told Sarmad Assali they were not allowed to make calls or use the Internet while they were held.
According to the Assalis, their family members do not speak English very well and were told by authorities they could either be detained and have their visas taken away, or they could take the first flight back to Doha.

 

[Denny Crane]

So no doubt Trump will be firing James Comey for doing exactly the same thing before the election? And I guess Sessions was unclear about exactly how you should disobey the president here:

If Comey openly defies the president, I expect he'd be fired, too.

Trump can fire him right now if he wants.

 

[blue32]

As I mentioned previously about disagreeing with each other....ways and means. The man did it with little input from the people qualified to give that input, especially the acting AG. He did it in such a way to create maximum chaos and inconvenience (not just to foreigners). He knowingly (I say that assuming he's smart enough to "get it") violated the right to due process (Denny can split hairs all he wants, due process was still violated). He made the USA look incredibly stupid and hostile to the rest of the world. And most telling, he left countries like Saudi Arabia (the worst of the worst) off the list. Which tells me the whole shit show is nothing more than passion play for the folks at home that needed to see a little sleight of hand in order to believe Trump really does have their best interests at heart. It's political theater using other peoples lives to create an illusion. Nothing different than most presidents have done, he just chose to use a bludgeon instead of a scalpel. And now you have a prime example of a screed. You're welcome......

Great input. I totally get where you're coming from. I think the only excuse, or reason I can think of from why he did it the way he did was to not telegraph the moves to the bad guys. Personally I think it could have been handled smoother, so we agree on that.

I think he could have done more countries too, but I think sticking w/the 7 that Obama's state department listed was a good way to keep things centered around their findings until Trumps team can rehash it.

screed.. lol the word cracks me up.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's turning out that the administration did have this E.O. vetted by enough departments that should review it.

The media line that it wasn't is proving to be yet another falsehood.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I think he could have done more countries too, but I think sticking w/the 7 that Obama's state department listed was a good way to keep things centered around their findings until Trumps team can rehash it.

Probably. But IMO, it was a chicken shit move, basically saying, "Obama did it, so it must be okay. and if the shit hits the fan, it's his fault not mine". Trump's team should have rehashed it first before jumping in with both feet. I'm afraid his tenure is going to be filled with hasty, poorly thought out and executed decisions......

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

It's turning out that the administration did have this E.O. vetted by enough departments that should review it.

The media line that it wasn't is proving to be yet another falsehood.

Gosh, you don't think those folks were worried about the cost of disagreeing with Trump whether he was right or wrong? It's not like D.C. Is awash in moral courage. At least Yates had a pair.....

 

[Rhal]

I don't care if we tighten our borders or not that much, its not as big of an issue to me one way or the other. I had several big issues with this executive order not because of the 7 country's chosen but more to do with the fact this came out of the blue, if you are going to do something this big that is going to effect thousands of people that had flown out of state already then give a little warning. That this executive order hit Green Card holders, that move seems unprecedented. The biggest issue I had was the fact they were prioritizing those who could prove themselves Christian, we are not at war with Muslim and we are not a Christian country, we are supposed to be a country of all religions.
I keep seeing posts on twitter/reddit ect of supposed former FBI agents and others who are trained in counter terrorism ect are talking about this as being ISIS and other extremists groups dream come true and that it will do more for recruiting then anything else done recently. Haven't seen any articles talking about it but i'll be interested to see more reasoning as to why this has been said.
As for the AG. She was going to be fired anyday now anyways so good for her if she actually thinks this was unconstitutional. If she did this just to pretty much give Trump the middle finger then she got what she deserved.

 

[Denny Crane]

Gosh, you don't think those folks were worried about the cost of disagreeing with Trump whether he was right or wrong? It's not like D.C. Is awash in moral courage. At least Yates had a pair.....

No to all of the above.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Probably. But IMO, it was a chicken shit move, basically saying, "Obama did it, so it must be okay. and if the shit hits the fan, it's his fault not mine". Trump's team should have rehashed it first before jumping in with both feet. I'm afraid his tenure is going to be filled with hasty, poorly thought out and executed decisions......

It's not like they had time. Oh you mean they had two months to write this and this is the best they could come up with?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

She should have just resigned. That would have made Trump look bad.

Insubordination just gives her firing merit.

but now she gets to cash those sweet unemployment checks

 

[Sedatedfork]

but now she gets to cash those sweet unemployment checks

More jobs created by Trump

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Denny Crane]

Crayon, for @barfo's sake.

 

[MarAzul]

but for anyone in the world.

The population density would be quite high. Do you think it would be too high?

 

[crandc]

The Attorney General is not the president's servant. If he/she genuinely believes there is a question of legality, he/she is legally, morally, and professionally obligated to act accordingly. To hold, to investigate, not to be a sycophant.

I was insubordinate once. Not, obviously, as publicly and not on something with international significance. My boss ordered me to falsify data by verifying something that was not there. I refused. He screamed, threatened, called me names, ordered me to do it, told me there would be "very severe consequences" if I continued to be insubordinate (his word). In alternate facts, he insisted the condition I was ordered to verify really DID exist, it just could not be observed. I said I would not document something that could not be observed because if it could not be observed I had no way of knowing if it existed, obviously. He did what Trump did, in small; ordered another person to do what I refused. The other person confided in me that he had documented what he did not observe out of fear. He had an H1B visa. I suggested an investigation, saying either the equipment was malfunctioning or the procedure was incorrect. I suggested a third person at the company might be able to resolve it as he had more knowledge of the equipment. The manager refused, said there was no problem, the problem was me.

After the other employee was cowed into falsifying data, I talked to this third person myself. He told me the manager had gone to him and ordered him to tell me how I was wrong. He said I was not wrong and explained why we could not possibly have observed what the manager said he had observed.

On my own I corrected the error in the procedure. For reason for change I said error in previous version. The manager said he would not sign the new version unless I changed that to "update". I refused.

The manager quit shortly thereafter, he had gotten a better job by claiming my accomplishments as his. As soon as he was gone they hired a more qualified person and laid off both me and the guy who had resolved the error.

And yeah, I fucking well would do it again. Because I was right and he was wrong.