Impressions on preseason so far

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I understand that Giles was the more decorated high school player. However, Collins was more impressive in college. I think that counts for more.
Sure, the 300 minutes Giles played in college tells us a ton. Certainly more than the 1500+ minutes he's played in the NBA, in which he's scored, rebounded, assisted, and overall played better than Zach. But sure, Zach's performance in 1 year as a reserve in the WCC speaks volumes about his future.
 
Sure, the 300 minutes Giles played in college tells us a ton. Certainly more than the 1500+ minutes he's played in the NBA, in which he's scored, rebounded, assisted, and overall played better than Zach. But sure, Zach's performance in 1 year as a reserve in the WCC speaks volumes about his future.

Zach has played more minutes in the NBA and in my opinion his stats are better as well.
 
I understand that Giles was the more decorated high school player. However, Collins was more impressive in college. I think that counts for more.

Collins was more impressive in college...because (IMO) Giles rushed back from injury. However, I would submit, Giles has skills/abilities that Collins doesn't come close to, even if Collins has done a bit more in limited fashion.

Career FG% - Giles 52%, Collins 44%
3-pt% - Giles (doesn't shoot them), Collins .324
Points/Per 36 - Giles 17.5, Collins 11.8
Reb/Per36 - Giles 9.9, Collins 8.2
Asst/Per 36 - Giles 3.5, Collins 1.9
Stls/Per 36 - Giles 1.3, Collins 0.6
Blks/Per 36 - Giles 1.0, Collins 1.4
ORtg/DRtg - Giles 105/109, Collins 105/109
WinSh/48 - Giles .081, Collins .069
BPM - Giles -2.2, Collins -2.6
VORP - Giles -0.1, Collins -0.4
TS% - Giles .548, Collins .528
Rebound/Asst/Steal/Blk% - All in favor of Giles

Just not seeing where Collins has been overall.....better.
 
Not sure, but I do know for a fact that Giles is Stott’s nephew on his wife’s side.

Interesting since I didn't know that. I hope it doesn't have influence on who Stotts chooses for the rotation.
 
Zach has played more minutes in the NBA and in my opinion his stats are better as well.
How are Zach's NBA stats better than Giles'? Are we focusing only on blocks and threes?
 
Postgame tonight Coach Stotts said "he’s been very impressed with Giles, but he won’t be getting any minutes over Nurk/Kanter or Melo."

That is disturbing and/or just plain ridiculous.

What is the point of depth off the bench if Melo is just going to go Iso everytime?
If Giles is playing well, there is a lot more he can do on the floor than Melo can ar this point.
Passing, defense, hustle, blocks and steals are part of the game as well.

It's very early, but with Melo going to the bench, he has turned into Iso only and has to get his shots up regardless or who may be open around him.
This why we will never see a championship while Stotts is coaching.
 
Sure, the 300 minutes Giles played in college tells us a ton. Certainly more than the 1500+ minutes he's played in the NBA, in which he's scored, rebounded, assisted, and overall played better than Zach. But sure, Zach's performance in 1 year as a reserve in the WCC speaks volumes about his future.

Haha well said. He couldn’t even start at that no name conference
 
Perhaps....and yet I think we've all seen things (albeit in 2 pre-season game) that Giles could do that Collins hasn't come close to doing. That would make sense as one of these two was the #1 high school recruit in the country and one was not. From a skills standpoint, Giles seems to have more ability. Both have struggled with missing time on the court. Would be nice to see their max potential when healthy.

I agree 100%. Isn't Giles doing (albeit on a limited sample, yes) exactly what we WISH Zack could do?

I get that we Blazer fans tend to fall in love with project forwards -- Skal, Caleb, Ed Davis, Thomas Robinson, etc. -- but this time it may be real.

Hope springs eternal!
 
Oh boy. Let’s use stats to tell our story.
Three point shooting has an effect on the entire offense not just the player shooting although it also effect total percentage and performance.
Teams absolutely know Giles will not be shooting from outside. He really can’t even be considered a mid range threat. Then of course you have what other teams have to do to cover or substitute to play a player.
Now as far as fouls go let’s see if Giles can get a call in this league. We all know Zach gets blasted by the refs. Defense is about playing smart. I did not see that yet with Giles but he might be able to?
IMO Zach is the better option at this point but I most certainly would be pleased to see Henry improve in every aspect of the game.
 
I don't see what other people are seeing. I think Collins is a significantly better option at the 4 than Giles assuming he's healthy.
Zach show he can hit the 3 plus he better defender on the premieter then Giles and both can block shots but Zach changes shots around the rim and don't see Giles does that right now. Now Giles can do more then Zach on offense but I believe Stotts would go with Zach over Giles due that they need more defense role then the offense role playing on either unit. But Zach might get shut out in the game due to Melo playing the 4. But we will see but there going be disappointment I will 2 or 3 players. Stotts going to play Melo at the 3 or 4 and that's going to hurt players like Trent Hood Zach for minutes. Kanter going hurt Giles for playing time even though Giles is out playing Kanter right in the first two preseason games. But this is when we are healthy.
 
Collins was more impressive in college...because (IMO) Giles rushed back from injury. However, I would submit, Giles has skills/abilities that Collins doesn't come close to, even if Collins has done a bit more in limited fashion.

Career FG% - Giles 52%, Collins 44%
3-pt% - Giles (doesn't shoot them), Collins .324
Points/Per 36 - Giles 17.5, Collins 11.8
Reb/Per36 - Giles 9.9, Collins 8.2
Asst/Per 36 - Giles 3.5, Collins 1.9
Stls/Per 36 - Giles 1.3, Collins 0.6
Blks/Per 36 - Giles 1.0, Collins 1.4
ORtg/DRtg - Giles 105/109, Collins 105/109
WinSh/48 - Giles .081, Collins .069
BPM - Giles -2.2, Collins -2.6
VORP - Giles -0.1, Collins -0.4
TS% - Giles .548, Collins .528
Rebound/Asst/Steal/Blk% - All in favor of Giles

Just not seeing where Collins has been overall.....better.

I don't consider "per 36" a good measure for comparing backups. Collins has played more minutes for a better team and his totals per game are better. That tells me he's the better player.
 
Collins was more impressive in college...because (IMO) Giles rushed back from injury. However, I would submit, Giles has skills/abilities that Collins doesn't come close to, even if Collins has done a bit more in limited fashion.

Career FG% - Giles 52%, Collins 44%
3-pt% - Giles (doesn't shoot them), Collins .324
Points/Per 36 - Giles 17.5, Collins 11.8
Reb/Per36 - Giles 9.9, Collins 8.2
Asst/Per 36 - Giles 3.5, Collins 1.9
Stls/Per 36 - Giles 1.3, Collins 0.6
Blks/Per 36 - Giles 1.0, Collins 1.4
ORtg/DRtg - Giles 105/109, Collins 105/109
WinSh/48 - Giles .081, Collins .069
BPM - Giles -2.2, Collins -2.6
VORP - Giles -0.1, Collins -0.4
TS% - Giles .548, Collins .528
Rebound/Asst/Steal/Blk% - All in favor of Giles

Just not seeing where Collins has been overall.....better.
Most the stats give Giles slight edge on Zach but shooting the 3 in Stotts offense is the biggie in all those stats. I have seen Zach switch off on guards and been pretty successful holding his own with them. Plus I said before both can block shots but Zach has 2 6 block games in his career and one of them was against the Lakers. Zach also make people miss on shots because he contest majority of the shots. I don't see Giles does that through out his career. We can look at stats all day long try figure who the best players but sometimes throw the stats aside and watch the little thing a player does to help a team to win and Zach has decent +- record for this team. Now don't get me wrong I like both players and think they both can play next to each and be successful because both have different skill set that actually benefits both players.
 
If nothing else, this whole Giles/Zach debate has shown everybody how much we (and the organization, specifically Neil) tend to overrate our own players. Not long ago Olshey was calling Zach a foundational piece, and now there’s a legitimate argument that can be made that a guy on a minimum contract is better.

I guess that brings me to this question; let’s say Zach has another season like he did last time he was healthy. How much is he getting in free agency? Do you even give him a QO, which should be around 7M? Would anyone actually pay him that much in unrestricted free agency?
 
Zach show he can hit the 3 plus he better defender on the premieter then Giles and both can block shots but Zach changes shots around the rim and don't see Giles does that right now. Now Giles can do more then Zach on offense but I believe Stotts would go with Zach over Giles due that they need more defense role then the offense role playing on either unit. But Zach might get shut out in the game due to Melo playing the 4. But we will see but there going be disappointment I will 2 or 3 players. Stotts going to play Melo at the 3 or 4 and that's going to hurt players like Trent Hood Zach for minutes. Kanter going hurt Giles for playing time even though Giles is out playing Kanter right in the first two preseason games. But this is when we are healthy.

This is part of the reason I wasn't excited about Melo coming back. The brought in all front court additions and now it is crowded. Melo is going to take away minutes from Hood or Trent or RoCo or DJJ or Zach.....and will play poor defense and pass very little the entire time.

That excites me....not.
 
This is part of the reason I wasn't excited about Melo coming back. The brought in all front court additions and now it is crowded. Melo is going to take away minutes from Hood or Trent or RoCo or DJJ or Zach.....and will play poor defense and pass very little the entire time.

That excites me....not.
I'll bet if he dominates the second unit and doesn't share the ball or shots, there will be a player or two that comments on it.
 
Collins was more impressive in college...because (IMO) Giles rushed back from injury. However, I would submit, Giles has skills/abilities that Collins doesn't come close to, even if Collins has done a bit more in limited fashion.

Career FG% - Giles 52%, Collins 44%
3-pt% - Giles (doesn't shoot them), Collins .324
Points/Per 36 - Giles 17.5, Collins 11.8
Reb/Per36 - Giles 9.9, Collins 8.2
Asst/Per 36 - Giles 3.5, Collins 1.9
Stls/Per 36 - Giles 1.3, Collins 0.6
Blks/Per 36 - Giles 1.0, Collins 1.4
ORtg/DRtg - Giles 105/109, Collins 105/109
WinSh/48 - Giles .081, Collins .069
BPM - Giles -2.2, Collins -2.6
VORP - Giles -0.1, Collins -0.4
TS% - Giles .548, Collins .528
Rebound/Asst/Steal/Blk% - All in favor of Giles

Just not seeing where Collins has been overall.....better.


I know this has already been pointed out but these per 36 numbers are a joke. If you can't earn minutes on a far worse team then you are not as good. Zach earned minutes regularly on a playoff team and Giles couldn't earn as many meaningful minutes on a lottery team. I like what I've seen from Giles but don't twist stats to fit your narrative... it's so lame when guys in here do that. What we should be looking at with these two guys is who has had more real game impact in winning performances and that answer is so obvious you don't need stats that give the other guy slight edges to prove it wrong.
 
I know this has already been pointed out but these per 36 numbers are a joke. If you can't earn minutes on a far worse team then you are not as good. Zach earned minutes regularly on a playoff team and Giles couldn't earn as many meaningful minutes on a lottery team. I like what I've seen from Giles but don't twist stats to fit your narrative... it's so lame when guys in here do that. What we should be looking at with these two guys is who has had more real game impact in winning performances and that answer is so obvious you don't need stats that give the other guy slight edges to prove it wrong.

exactly how am I "twisting stats"??
 
I know this has already been pointed out but these per 36 numbers are a joke. If you can't earn minutes on a far worse team then you are not as good. Zach earned minutes regularly on a playoff team and Giles couldn't earn as many meaningful minutes on a lottery team. I like what I've seen from Giles but don't twist stats to fit your narrative... it's so lame when guys in here do that. What we should be looking at with these two guys is who has had more real game impact in winning performances and that answer is so obvious you don't need stats that give the other guy slight edges to prove it wrong.

'Twisted stats'? Those are verbatim from the basketball reference website....just as they are for any other player in the league. And it wasn't just one or two cherry picked categories. It was a large cross section of many different stats for both players. Since both have missed many games due to injury, even that part is fairly apples-to-apples.

If someone wants to interpret them in different manners or under different circumstances, so be it. But the stats are not twisted. Then again, fake news is the norm these days.
 
Glad we have two practices since last game. Nurk got to actually practice with the new guys. That'll be huge....Rodney got some burn and will get his wind back...should be better ball..easy to forget Nas is still on the roster though quarantined
 
If Giles, Trent, and DJJ ball out this year can’t we keep Trent(RFA-Match him) Giles(Kanter/Hood are gone-use that money), DJJ another wink deal like we did with Hood? Tell him to opt in and we will take care of him the following year?

All 3 appear to be 2 way players, which I like a lot.

Also I thought next years FA class was stacked? If that’s the case coming off another covid season won’t contracts be down a bit for guys like Giles and possibly the other 2?
 
If Giles, Trent, and DJJ ball out this year can’t we keep Trent(RFA-Match him) Giles(Kanter/Hood are gone-use that money), DJJ another wink deal like we did with Hood? Tell him to opt in and we will take care of him the following year?

All 3 appear to be 2 way players, which I like a lot.
The problem with Giles is that since we'll be over the cap, we'll need to use a cap exception to re-sign him. Since he's come here on a one-year deal, we don't have bird rights, so the largest exception we'll have available to re-sign him is the mid-level (possibly even the taxpayer mid-level). If some other team wants to offer him more than that, we have no options under the CBA to offer more.
 
The problem with Giles is that since we'll be over the cap, we'll need to use a cap exception to re-sign him. Since he's come here on a one-year deal, we don't have bird rights, so the largest exception we'll have available to re-sign him is the mid-level (possibly even the taxpayer mid-level). If some other team wants to offer him more than that, we have no options under the CBA to offer more.

Portland is also limited in what they can offer Jones. If he has a good season and opts out of his 9.7M 2nd year salary, the Blazers can't offer him more than 11.1M. If some team offers up 15-18M it would be hard for Jones to pass that up
 
Wouldn’t shedding CJs salary solve a lot of these problems with Trent, DJJ and whoever else we currently might not be able to keep? If we could get expirings and maybe picks for him?
 
Wouldn’t shedding CJs salary solve a lot of these problems with Trent, DJJ and whoever else we currently might not be able to keep? If we could get expirings and maybe picks for him?
Yep... but that's never going to happen as long as NO is around. Because, as you know - CJ is a foundational piece for this team. :breakdance:
 
Wouldn’t shedding CJs salary solve a lot of these problems with Trent, DJJ and whoever else we currently might not be able to keep? If we could get expirings and maybe picks for him?

Then your back to square one because now you need another cj
 

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