Intelligent Design

[TradeNurkicNow]

[video=youtube;e4467CI4y0M]

 

[speeds]

For the folks who want to jam intelligent design into science education in public schools (and those who are trying to stop them,) there is a debate.

Yeah but in reality there isn't. They are failing miserably for a reason.

 

[Eastoff]

Hoojacks, that is pretty sweet!

 

[Shooter]

Intelligent Design is a political instrument invented to try to shoehorn creationism back into the public education system.

Evolution is a political instrument invented to undermine the idea of a God.

It's not science, because it's not testable . . .

Neither is the big bang.

"God did it" has been the answer for millenia for countless puzzles, from "why does the sun rise" to "what causes cancer?" Never has such a line of thinking done anything to create a better understanding of our universe or prevent suffering.

If God does exist, and He did create the world, then evolution has confused millions of people about the meaning of the universe.

Why people still cling to it when science has such an amazing track record of smacking it down astounds me.

Why people cling to evolution, when there's no evidence for it, astounds me. It's only a theory, and a very flawed one at that.

 

[speeds]

Why people cling to evolution, when there's no evidence for it, astounds me.

There is abundant evidence for it. Don't be obtuse.

There is a practically complete fossil record for the horse from the time it was a Hyracotherium until now.

 

[Shooter]

There is abundant evidence for it. Don't be obtuse.

There is a practically complete fossil record for the horse from the time it was a Hyracotherium until now.

Nonsense. Scientists look for all kinds of "links," and when they can't find them, they make them up. It's like a lot of the "clinical studies" that are done by drug companies. They force the studies to come to the conclusions they want them to, no matter what the data shows. Same goes for the evolutionists. It's all theory, and if your a believer, then you believe it.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Shooter, you're talking about macro-evolution, not micro-evolution; right?

 

[julius]

Nonsense. Scientists look for all kinds of "links," and when they can't find them, they make them up. It's like a lot of the "clinical studies" that are done by drug companies. They force the studies to come to the conclusions they want them to, no matter what the data shows. Same goes for the evolutionists. It's all theory, and if your a believer, then you believe it.

Either you have a poor understanding of what evolution means or is, or you are purposely ignoring many scientific discoveries for the sake of arguing.

If you say there are no "links", how do you then explain the birds on the Galapagos Islands then?

Like Darwin's finches (although they're not actually finches). They are birds who are of the same species having vastly different beaks, and certain features, on certain islands, survived while others didn't?

http://dearkitty.blogsome.com/2006/08/03/galapagos-islands-why-darwins-finches-differ-in-beak-size/

Why are some tortoises soft shelled while others are hard shelled? Why did some species of tortoises grow to significantly larger sizes than others?

Let's say you have two sets of the same tortoise populations on two different islands. On one island, the food source is low. Those tortoises don't have to stretch their necks that far to get food.

On the other island, the food source is higher up. So those tortoises who have longer necks (just by some genetic luck), will probably outlive the others. They'll be able to reach the food, and procreate. And their off spring will more than likely be able to reach the the food, and live to procreate.

Those who can't reach the food, or struggle more, are less likely to procreate. Those who can reach the food, are more likely to survive and procreate.

Then the off spring will tend to have longer necks. Give that a couple hundred years and over time the tortoises on the one Island will longer necks than those on the other island. They'll be the same species of tortoises, but will not resemble each other exactly the same anymore.

That is evolution (and actually happened).

I think the problem is that so many people think that evolution is something like man evolved from ape. That isn't what evolution is about.

Hell, you want proof of evolution? Look at people. Why doesn't everyone look the same? Why are some people in certain areas of the region of a similar appearance. For example, why do Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian nations, look somewhat similar?

When you have people of different 'races' creating a new generation, that's evolving. That's evolution.

 

[barfo]

Nonsense. Scientists look for all kinds of "links," and when they can't find them, they make them up. It's like a lot of the "clinical studies" that are done by drug companies. They force the studies to come to the conclusions they want them to, no matter what the data shows. Same goes for the evolutionists. It's all theory, and if your a believer, then you believe it.

That's right. Everything is faked. The moon shot was a fake. Ronald Reagan never existed. There is no such place as South Africa. The fake tits in your avatar are real. This post doesn't exist. You don't exist.

Just put your fingers in your ears, your head in the sand, and shout "I don't hear you, you don't exist". That'll work.

barfo

 

[speeds]

Nonsense. Scientists look for all kinds of "links," and when they can't find them, they make them up. It's like a lot of the "clinical studies" that are done by drug companies. They force the studies to come to the conclusions they want them to, no matter what the data shows. Same goes for the evolutionists. It's all theory, and if your a believer, then you believe it.

 

[Shooter]

Shooter, you're talking about macro-evolution, not micro-evolution; right?

Correct. But of course Darwin's theory of micro-evolution has been extrapolated to provide some sort of "evidence" for macro-evolution, and that's just nonsense. It is amazing to me that millions of people have swallowed the evolution theory without blinking.

 

[mook]

Evolution is a political instrument invented to undermine the idea of a God.

LMFAO! That is the wackiest, funniest, stupidest goddamn thing I think I've read on the internet all year.

It's just....jesus...I don't know what to say....

Man.

 

[Denny Crane]

It's kinda interesting how science has imprinted the concept of evolution on just about everything. The earth evolves, the universe evolves, etc.

If you look at it this way, then all that's missing is some sort of cosmic DNA, and that cosmic DNA might be the "intelligence" behind a viable intelligent design theory.

While many see intelligent design as some ruse to undermine science and promote religion, it could be very interesting if you took the Creator out of the equation.

 

[mook]

It's kinda interesting how science has imprinted the concept of evolution on just about everything. The earth evolves, the universe evolves, etc.

If you look at it this way, then all that's missing is some sort of cosmic DNA, and that cosmic DNA might be the "intelligence" behind a viable intelligent design theory.

While many see intelligent design as some ruse to undermine science and promote religion, it could be very interesting if you took the Creator out of the equation.

The basis of evolution is failure. Billions of carbon-based mistakes (or in your cosmic example, planetary mistakes) with just enough things going right over billions of years to create our planet, then life, then humans, then the Playstation 2. It's hard for me to see how divine thinking could be the basis of all this fucking up.

It's like Steve Jobs setting out to build the iMac by throwing a shitload of wires and plastic at a wall for 6 billion years. If there is a God out there, there's got to be a better way to do it.

 

[barfo]

It's kinda interesting how science has imprinted the concept of evolution on just about everything. The earth evolves, the universe evolves, etc.

If you look at it this way, then all that's missing is some sort of cosmic DNA, and that cosmic DNA might be the "intelligence" behind a viable intelligent design theory.

While many see intelligent design as some ruse to undermine science and promote religion, it could be very interesting if you took the Creator out of the equation.

I like the analogy, but DNA isn't intelligence as we know it, Jim. It's complex, but dumb. It's no more intelligent than a vending machine or a printing press.

Of course, a creator could be dumb too. A lot of the Bible makes the boss sound like a 2 year old. "Gimme, gimme!" "I hate you! I hope you die!". But maybe that's an exaggeration of his intelligence. Maybe it's just programming. [booming machine voice]Make your offerings OR (you will be put to death AND your children will be sold into slavery AND your village destroyed). This message will repeat in 10 minutes."[/booming machine voice]

Generally after the captain has sex with an alien woman, the people can be taught that booming machine voice does not have to be obeyed.

barfo

 

[Shooter]

The basis of evolution is failure. Billions of carbon-based mistakes (or in your cosmic example, planetary mistakes) with just enough things going right over billions of years to create our planet, then life, then humans, then the Playstation 2. It's hard for me to see how divine thinking could be the basis of all this fucking up.

Your whole premise is wrong. The earth has existed for about 6,000 years--not "billions." The evolutionists had to come up with the "billions" theory in order to allow enough time for all this so-called evolution of amoeba into humans. It couldn't have been done in 6,000 years, so they had to extend the time-line to make their theory possible.

 

[crowTrobot]

At the juncture we are at, it is philosophical.

in philosophy class it would be philosophical. but people who want ID taught in schools want it taught in science class as an alternative to evolution based on what they consider empirical evidence.

 

[mook]

Your whole premise is wrong. The earth has existed for about 6,000 years--not "billions." The evolutionists had to come up with the "billions" theory in order to allow enough time for all this so-called evolution of amoeba into humans. It couldn't have been done in 6,000 years, so they had to extend the time-line to make their theory possible.

Man, I feel sorry for all the people who block you, because this stuff is just pure comedic gold.

 

[Shooter]

Even if someone could prove without a doubt that the universe is the product of intelligent design, my next question would be "So what?"

If humans evolved from amoeba over billions of years, then we're just stupid creatures like every other animal on the planet, wandering around eating, drinking, and sleeping, and then eventually dying. Period. There's nothing to hope for after this life, and we all just die and that's the end of our existence.

If there is a Creator, however, that changes everything. He must have created us for a reason, for some higher purpose. Perhaps there is another life after this one, perhaps there is a God who loves us, and thinks of us as his children. Perhaps we can even communicate with that God through prayer. Perhaps He even communicates with us. Perhaps we will be reunited with him one day, and He will explain everything to us, and answer every question that has puzzled humanity for thousands of years.

 

[barfo]

You apparently haven't thought this through. If humans evolved from amoeba over billions of years, then we're just stupid creatures like every other animal on the planet, wandering around eating, drinking, and sleeping, and then eventually dying. Period. There's nothing to hope for after this life, and we all just die and that's the end of our existence.

Uh, you forgot sex.

If there is a Creator, however, that changes everything. He must have created us for a reason, for some higher purpose. Perhaps there is another life after this one, perhaps there is a heaven, perhaps there is a God who loves us, and thinks of us as his children. Perhaps we can even communicate with that God through prayer. Perhaps He even communicates with us. Perhaps we will be reunited with him one day, and He will explain everything to us, and answer every question that has puzzled humanity for thousands of years.

Perhaps you are wasting your life believing in nonsense and fairy tales.

barfo

 

[Shooter]

Man, I feel sorry for all the people who block you, because this stuff is just pure comedic gold.

Right back at ya!! Without people like you trying to pass off the theory of evolution as some kind of "truth," the discussion wouldn't be half as interesting!!

 

[julius]

Your whole premise is wrong. The earth has existed for about 6,000 years--not "billions." The evolutionists had to come up with the "billions" theory in order to allow enough time for all this so-called evolution of amoeba into humans. It couldn't have been done in 6,000 years, so they had to extend the time-line to make their theory possible.

How do you test that the earth is 6000 years old, when we have fossils that are older than that?

 

[crowTrobot]

If humans evolved from amoeba over billions of years, then we're just stupid creatures like every other animal on the planet, wandering around eating, drinking, and sleeping, and then eventually dying. Period. There's nothing to hope for after this life, and we all just die and that's the end of our existence.

If there is a Creator, however, that changes everything. He must have created us for a reason, for some higher purpose. Perhaps there is another life after this one, perhaps there is a God who loves us, and thinks of us as his children. Perhaps we can even communicate with that God through prayer. Perhaps He even communicates with us. Perhaps we will be reunited with him one day, and He will explain everything to us, and answer every question that has puzzled humanity for thousands of years.

has it ever been pointed out to you that there are hundreds of millions of christians and jews that believe genesis 1 one was meant to be poetic or allegorical, science does not exist to undermine theism, and evolution may have been god's tool for creating man? (this is in fact the official position of the catholic church now).

 

[crowTrobot]

How do you test that the earth is 6000 years old, when we have fossils that are older than that?

we have civilizations that are older than that.

 

[Denny Crane]

The basis of evolution is failure. Billions of carbon-based mistakes (or in your cosmic example, planetary mistakes) with just enough things going right over billions of years to create our planet, then life, then humans, then the Playstation 2. It's hard for me to see how divine thinking could be the basis of all this fucking up.

It's like Steve Jobs setting out to build the iMac by throwing a shitload of wires and plastic at a wall for 6 billion years. If there is a God out there, there's got to be a better way to do it.

The universe is full of failures. Asteroids are failed planets, right?

I like the analogy, but DNA isn't intelligence as we know it, Jim. It's complex, but dumb. It's no more intelligent than a vending machine or a printing press.

Of course, a creator could be dumb too. A lot of the Bible makes the boss sound like a 2 year old. "Gimme, gimme!" "I hate you! I hope you die!". But maybe that's an exaggeration of his intelligence. Maybe it's just programming. [booming machine voice]Make your offerings OR (you will be put to death AND your children will be sold into slavery AND your village destroyed). This message will repeat in 10 minutes."[/booming machine voice]

Generally after the captain has sex with an alien woman, the people can be taught that booming machine voice does not have to be obeyed.

barfo

DNA is the blueprint, and rather dumb processes construct from that blueprint. The argument for ID is that certain things are so complex and cleverly designed that there must be a blueprint (and designer) somewhere.

Again, I'm not into the Creator bit, but philosophically, there are numerous things that are arguably built from a blueprint. Like chemistry - H2O is the result of a blueprint (2 hydrogen atoms, one oxygen, and how they bind together).

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Correct. But of course Darwin's theory of micro-evolution has been extrapolated to provide some sort of "evidence" for macro-evolution, and that's just nonsense.

It's not nonsense. Micro-evolution happens over and over again until the changes can be considered significant enough to make a new species. That is macro-evolution. The only thing that is needed is time.

I wonder what your opinion on time is.

The earth has existed for about 6,000 years--not "billions."

Oh, right.

The evolutionists had to come up with the "billions" theory in order to allow enough time for all this so-called evolution of amoeba into humans. It couldn't have been done in 6,000 years, so they had to extend the time-line to make their theory possible.

The people who determined the (non-Biblical) age of the earth aren't evolutionary biologists. It's surprising how little you know about science.

If humans evolved from amoeba over billions of years, then we're just stupid creatures like every other animal on the planet, wandering around eating, drinking, and sleeping, and then eventually dying. Period. There's nothing to hope for after this life, and we all just die and that's the end of our existence.

It's hard to accept, isn't it?

If there is a Creator, however, that changes everything.

Does it?

He must have created us for a reason, for some higher purpose.

Why must he have?

Perhaps there is another life after this one, perhaps there is a God who loves us, and thinks of us as his children. Perhaps we can even communicate with that God through prayer. Perhaps He even communicates with us. Perhaps we will be reunited with him one day, and He will explain everything to us, and answer every question that has puzzled humanity for thousands of years.

Or, perhaps not. Really, there's no way to know.

This is what I don't understand about the intelligent design crowd. Say you could prove that the universe is intelligently designed: okay, by who? By which god? By how many gods? Intelligent design says nothing of religion, yet it is championed by Christians who assume it's their god who did the designing.

I call bullshit.

Man, I feel sorry for all the people who block you, because this stuff is just pure comedic gold.

This. I don't understand blocking anyway, but I've never once considered blocking TalkHard/Shooter. He just brightens my day way too much.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

[booming machine voice]Make your offerings OR (you will be put to death AND your children will be sold into slavery AND your village destroyed). This message will repeat in 10 minutes."[/booming machine voice]

Generally after the captain has sex with an alien woman, the people can be taught that booming machine voice does not have to be obeyed.

Man, I feel like I just read the condensed version of every Harlan Ellison short story ever. Bravo.

 

[barfo]

Like chemistry - H2O is the result of a blueprint (2 hydrogen atoms, one oxygen, and how they bind together).

I'm not sure I agree. There's no blueprint that Oxygen consults. Oxygen just likes to have threesomes with a couple of Hydrogen babes, and it goes out and does it. It's entirely due to the physics/sexuality of the three atoms themselves. They don't need to look at the Kama Sutra or use a catalytic lube. They just do what comes naturally.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not sure I agree. There's no blueprint that Oxygen consults. Oxygen just likes to have threesomes with a couple of Hydrogen babes, and it goes out and does it. It's entirely due to the physics/sexuality of the three atoms themselves. They don't need to look at the Kama Sutra or use a catalytic lube. They just do what comes naturally.

barfo

There is a blueprint when RNA works its magic on DNA, and a very similar one when H2 combines with O to make water.

 

[BengalDuck]

The universe is full of failures. Asteroids are failed planets, right?

Or perhaps, planets are failed asteroids?