IRS Targeted Conservative Groups

[MickZagger]

That's the type of uninformed and unintelligent response I was looking for. Nice work!

You always stoop to our level by posting here....

 

[Masbee]

I'm glad you looked deeply into my 'non-factor' comment.

I don't have an opinion on this. I just think its hilarious. It's just another thing Repubs can freak out about. If you aren't dodging taxes/bending rules you have nothing to worry about.

But this is CLEARLY a ploy to take away your guns.



Clearly.

Stupid beyond all comprehension.

Opinions like this are destroying what used to be great about America.

If you don't want to continue to embarrass yourself, then read some of the news accounts of what the IRS did during these examinations before you ignorantly declare "you have nothing to worry about".

 

[Masbee]

Investigation to look for a possible crime is otherwise known as a fishing expedition.

The dead body fell out of the boat and drowned. Not a !)

What are you babbling about?

Holder ordered the investigation into possible crimes. The same guy who has refused to order the investigation of, well, anything.

Are you claiming that he decided, after all these years, to go "fishing"?

 

[Denny Crane]

What are you babbling about?

Holder ordered the investigation into possible crimes. The same guy who has refused to order the investigation of, well, anything.

Are you claiming that he decided, after all these years, to go "fishing"?

If he investigates and finds nothing, the people making noise about crime, Nixon, impeachment, etc., will look foolish.

 

[PapaG]

If he investigates and finds nothing, the people making noise about crime, Nixon, impeachment, etc., will look foolish.

If he investigates and finds nothing, then a special prosecutor will be in order.

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm glad you looked deeply into my 'non-factor' comment.

I don't have an opinion on this. I just think its hilarious.

What is "hilarious" about it?

It's just another thing Repubs can freak out about. If you aren't dodging taxes/bending rules you have nothing to worry about.

That's awesome justification. As others have pointed out, this mentality is beyond stupid and shows a complete disregard for the rights and liberties we're supposed to have, and have known in this country.

 

[Masbee]

If he investigates and finds nothing, then a special prosecutor will be in order.

Exactly.

Washington knows there are crimes. Multiple Democrats have already said as much to get out in front of the eventual disclosures.

Holder, as I have pointed out, has investigated very little of the Obama Admin in the past, so his calling an investigation is for the purposes of getting out in front of this scandal and to attempt to control the damage.

Had he not called an investigation, Congress would have appointed a special prosecutor, thus cutting Holder out of the loop.

He can't have that.

We already know that the "rouge agents in Cincinnati" statements is a lie. IRS officials in CA and Washington DC were directly involved in the scandal. What nobody knows - because it has been willfully hidden for years, is how high up in DC this goes.

 

[Masbee]

Recent Quotes from Senator Max Baucus, Democrat:

"I have a hunch that a lot more is going to come out, frankly. It's broader than the current focus. And I think it's important that we have the hearings, and I think that will encourage other information to come out that has not yet come out. I suspect that we will learn more in the next several days, maybe the next couple three weeks which adds more context to all of this."

Dave Camp, Republican

"Clearly there has been taxpayer confidential information leaked, and potentially for political reasons. And obviously only one political perspective was targeted, so it does seem to have significant political overtones. But we just don't know where this will lead until we take a serious look at it."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/democrat-baucus-warns-more-to-come-out-on-irs-scandal/article/2529913


Confidential information leaked.

This is a crime. OK.

There is your crime.

 

[Masbee]

If he investigates and finds nothing, the people making noise about crime, Nixon, impeachment, etc., will look foolish.

If you bother reading the newspapers, the entire world already knows crimes have occurred.

So, no, people "making noise" about crimes won't look foolish.

As for Nixon and impeachment, I haven't mentioned those things, you have. Strawman much?

 

[Masbee]

Odd that you avoid answering the questions. What is your complaint, and what do you want to see done about it.

My position is that these organizations (and many on the left, too) shouldn't be given 501(c)anything status.

501(c)4 is meant for organizations like the volunteer fire department, not for making soft money contributions to political campaigns tax deductible.

You are wrong about this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-14/don-t-buy-the-social-welfare-defense-of-the-irs.html

A lot of the calls for the Internal Revenue Service to crack down on political 501(c)(4) organizations -- which is what the IRS was trying to do when it touched off the scandal over Tea Party groups -- focus on the claim that ideological, political groups are obviously not “social welfare” organizations as required under the law. Not so fast.

“Social welfare” is a term of art that doesn’t mean exactly what it sounds like. To qualify, a group must have the aim of producing benefits that accrue to the community as a whole, not just its members. “Benefit” and “community” are construed broadly; organizations do not have to demonstrate that the policies they promote are good or that they benefit everyone.

You can see this in the IRS regulations governing 501(c)(4) groups. These groups may engage in unlimited lobbying related to their social welfare missions. The IRS offers these specific examples of acceptable activity: “promotion of legislation on animal rights,” “advocacy of anti-abortion legislation,” “legalization of currently illegal activity” and “advocacy of changes in the tax law.”

The groups can also engage in electioneering, even endorsing candidates. Here’s the IRS: “An exempt IRC 501(c)(4) organization may intervene in political campaigns as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.”

 

[Denny Crane]

The courts ruled that these groups can, but the 501(c)4 was intended for organizations like the fire department. I don't blame the courts for siding on the side of free speech.

Anyone who thinks american crossroads is purely interested in lobbying for or against specific issues only has their head up their ass. They spent money on at least 20 candidates' campaigns, which is far beyond "endorsing" candidates.

I'm all in favor of american crossroads being able to do whatever it wants in terms of raising money and spending on campaigns. I'm not in favor of them cheating the tax codes for benefits not deserved or intended.

 

[Masbee]

The courts ruled that these groups can, but the 501(c)4 was intended for organizations like the fire department. I don't blame the courts for siding on the side of free speech.

Anyone who thinks american crossroads is purely interested in lobbying for or against specific issues only has their head up their ass. They spent money on at least 20 candidates' campaigns, which is far beyond "endorsing" candidates.

I'm all in favor of american crossroads being able to do whatever it wants in terms of raising money and spending on campaigns. I'm not in favor of them cheating the tax codes for benefits not deserved or intended.

The law doesn't say, "purely interested".

So, yeah, when you make up criteria, then accuse groups of breaking your made up rules, .... ummm what's that called again?

 

[Denny Crane]

How do you know what the law says?

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/w...ere-created-for-the-purpose-of-hiding-donors/

 

[PapaG]

Keep spinning, Denny. Not even Obama supporters are going to be defending this as more gets uncovered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/us/politics/irs-scandal-congressional-hearings.html?hp&_r=2&

NYT: OBAMA ADMINISTRATION KNEW OF IRS SCANDAL 5 MONTHS BEFORE ELECTION

In no uncertain terms and with no hedging, The New York Times reports that the Obama Administration was aware of the fact that the IRS was targeting Tea Party groups as far back as June of 2012. The Treasury Department's Inspector General confirmed that he told senior Treasury officials in June of 2012, a full five months before Election Day:

The Treasury Department’s inspector general told senior Treasury officials in June 2012 he was investigating the Internal Revenue Service’s screening of politically active organizations seeking tax exemptions, disclosing for the first time on Friday that Obama administration officials were aware of the matter during the presidential campaign year.

We still don’t know for sure what the President knew or when he knew it, but this does confirm that the Administration was aware of the fact that Obama's political enemies were under fire by the IRS and covered that fact up during an election year.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journa...Aware-of-IRS-Scandal-6-Months-before-Election

 

[PapaG]

• 28 USC 7414: willful oppression under color of law related to revenue laws
• 18 USC 241 & 242: conspiracy against rights and deprivation of rights under color of law
• The Hatch Act: prohibits civil servants from engaging in political activity

There are three potential criminal activities, right there. Who in the administration knew about this, and why did it continue???

 

[PapaG]

 

[Denny Crane]

• 28 USC 7414: willful oppression under color of law related to revenue laws
• 18 USC 241 & 242: conspiracy against rights and deprivation of rights under color of law
• The Hatch Act: prohibits civil servants from engaging in political activity

There are three potential criminal activities, right there. Who in the administration knew about this, and why did it continue???

Neat.

I google for "28 USC 7414" - there's a handful of hits, all from the free republic forums you must have copied and pasted from. No such law. Nice try.

18 USC 241 is a civil rights statute and doesn't apply. 501(c)4 status is not a right.

And I see no political activity that's gone on by public servants (Hatch Act).

Next?

 

[PapaG]

Neat.

I google for "28 USC 7414" - there's a handful of hits, all from the free republic forums you must have copied and pasted from. No such law. Nice try.

18 USC 241 is a civil rights statute and doesn't apply. 501(c)4 status is not a right.

And I see no political activity that's gone on by public servants (Hatch Act).

Next?

The IRS giving classified information to Pro Publica is a criminal act.

What's neat is watching you spin this and look foolish in doing so.

 

[PapaG]

Simple question, Denny.

Do you trust the IRS to fairly administer claims and procedures under ObamaCare?

 

[PapaG]

Worth watching

[video=youtube;vCjssK-i4Mg]

 

[Denny Crane]

The IRS giving classified information to Pro Publica is a criminal act.

What's neat is watching you spin this and look foolish in doing so.

Find me the statute that says the IRS people committed a crime. The only thing I've seen is "PUBLISHING" the information might be. IRS didn't publish it.

I'm not the one here quoting some idiot on the highly partisan free republic forums without doing any fact checking to assure there's any truth to it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Simple question, Denny.

Do you trust the IRS to fairly administer claims and procedures under ObamaCare?

I think ObamaCare is a disaster no matter who administers claims and procedures.

Democrats are struggling with trying to blame the IRS for messing up on the one hand and then believing the IRS is qualified and good enough to entrust with ObamaCare.

 

[PapaG]

I think ObamaCare is a disaster no matter who administers claims and procedures.

Democrats are struggling with trying to blame the IRS for messing up on the one hand and then believing the IRS is qualified and good enough to entrust with ObamaCare.

That's good enough for me. I'll wait for more information to surface, but considering the administration knew about this in June 2012, and Obama claimed he didn't know about it until last Friday, we need to know more about what the President knew, when he knew it, and if he didn't know it, why?

 

[Denny Crane]

That's good enough for me. I'll wait for more information to surface, but considering the administration knew about this in June 2012, and Obama claimed he didn't know about it until last Friday, we need to know more about what the President knew, when he knew it, and if he didn't know it, why?

Assume he knew EVERYTHING you think he did in June 2012. Then what?

I'm not seeing anything even close to an impeachable offense. Not a crime, either.

I mean, the guy got to fly Air Force One to every one of his campaign stops. Romney had to pay his own way. Rank has its privileges.

 

[MARIS61]

If you bother reading the newspapers, the entire world already knows crimes have occurred.

Name them.

The crimes, not the entire world.

 

[Denny Crane]

Name them.

The crimes, not the entire world.

If they have to dig through the law books to find some obscure law that maybe was broken, I don't see why they need to be so upset about it.

 

[PapaG]

Assume he knew EVERYTHING you think he did in June 2012. Then what?

I'm not seeing anything even close to an impeachable offense. Not a crime, either.

I mean, the guy got to fly Air Force One to every one of his campaign stops. Romney had to pay his own way. Rank has its privileges.

I don't think he knew anything, but you seem to a have a major glitch if you're incurious and battling finding out more. I wouldn't call you a Libertarian.

 

[PapaG]

If they have to dig through the law books to find some obscure law that maybe was broken, I don't see why they need to be so upset about it.

If you don't see why specifically targeting groups and individuals by the IRS is not worth being upset about, then I think you're just protecting your website here.

You're a fraud, IMO.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't think he knew anything, but you seem to a have a major glitch if you're incurious and battling finding out more. I wouldn't call you a Libertarian.

Dude,

I'm fine with the investigations and all.

Getting to the truth is important. They need to figure out how fucked up the 501(c)4 thing is and fix it. And then we all can see how incompetent government is so as a whole we may trust it less. And the ramifications for the 2014 elections are big.

 

[Denny Crane]

If you don't see why specifically targeting groups and individuals by the IRS is not worth being upset about, then I think you're just protecting your website here.

You're a fraud, IMO.

It wasn't fair, but they don't have to be fair. Again, the people voted for these people so they go what they voted for. And it's all been exposed. Terrific!

Of course it bothers me what they did. But I'm no fool who goes around claiming he's Nixon Act II or that impeachment is in order, etc.

In fact, the Nixon crap is going to hurt any chance of Democrats really rolling up their sleeves to get on board keeping the lame duck in a box so he can't cause any more harm than he has already.