Is anyone on our SL team worth keeping?

[Rastapopoulos]

Serious question. I know we've only seen two SL games, but the players have looked SO BAD that it's just depressing. And some of them aren't that young, either!

Worth keeping:
Vonleh - he could be a third string PF maybe down the line.
Alexander - (yes, I know, but we can re-sign him) he looks a lot more active now he's slimmed down. Still doesn't know how to play, but he's also still very young.
Layman - hustles. Might be okay if surrounded by decent players.

Not worth keeping:
Everyone else.
I imagine folks will want to keep Montero, because once in while he does something fairly spectacular, but he just seems to lack focus. And who would he take minutes from? He's too skinny and he just doesn't seem to know how to play defense. I imagine the coaches have been working on him to get better, but he's just bad.

At this point, can anyone defend Pat? He's not a project any more, he is what he is. He has good jumping muscles, clearly, but zero twitch muscles. He's a power forward in the body of a large PG. Let him get on with his life while he has a chance for a different career (apparently it's a faux pas to mention it).

 

[Blazer4ever]

Worth keeping: Napier, Montero, Vonleh, Pierre Jackson, Jack Layman

Maybe worth keeping:
Russ Smith, Cliff Alexander, #16 - don't know his name, Caughnigton

 

[Blazer4ever]

Caughnington is smart and assertive but often tries to do to much when the other players are better with the ball.
Still, I like his intensity, he wants to prove himself, he just needs to start doing it by getting others involved

 

[craigehlo]

Worth it: Vonleh, Layman (he needs time to prove himself)

Cliff is a run-of-the-mill big man in SL. He's competent, but nothing special.

Pat C reminds me of a poor man's Antonio Daniels. Lots of athleticism but no consistent jumper or great handles will keep him from getting to the next level.

 

[TBpup]

Vonleh for sure. He's had a double-double in both games so far and just came off of 16 points and 12 rebounds in 32 minutes on 7-10 shooting including 1-2 from '3'. That was with Russ Smith ignoring him for the majority of the night. He was using his strength to run his many right under the basket and pin him there but the Blazer PG's (as was often the case last season) wouldn't reward his work and the advantage he had created.

I do like Montero as well a bit. He should have had 5-7 assists if his teammates could have shot a decent percentage at all. He set up players very well for open looks quite a few times and that's all you can ask for. If they don't his shots, that isn't on him. He did a better job than any of the PG's Portland currently have at SL in setting up teammates and getting them good looks in the offense. He is also shooting 50% from '3' which fits right into Stotts' system. There aren't enough minutes to go around for him to see much time but he's the perfect #11-15 player.

Connaughton looks like he has actually regressed. Maybe he shouldn't let go of that baseball idea. I thought he would be much better this time around but his shooting has been terrible. He is 6-26 (.231) from the field and is shooting .143 from 3-pt range while not doing much of anything else.

Layman I haven't seen enough of to really get a feel for. He looks okay but for a 4-year college player, I would have thought he'd look a little more ready to contribute. He's not shooting it well so far, not rebounding, doesn't get assists but seems to have okay agility. Just doesn't seem like much for a guy who played that much in college.

Can someone PLEASE run the point to where they actually get the ball to players that should have it? Russ Smith took more shots than anyone on the Blazers roster and Napier was 1-5 in limited minutes before leaving. Vonleh should be getting 15+ shots a game and Montero getting 10.

 

[Natebishop3]

At least Tim Frazier was looking to pass last year.

 

[Driew]

It's only been two games let's see how the other three games go first.

 

[Natebishop3]

It's only been two games let's see how the other three games go first.

Russ smith has so many more shots he can take in 3 more games!

 

[riverman]

It was real ugly basketball and as Tpup mentioned, the point guards were playing D league chuck ball. Vonleh looks good to me. Layman actually bangs in the paint and plays decent defense. Connaughton disappointed me...great hustle...stiff jumper. Montero is still another year from being a rotation guy. He has great speed though and has really quick hands. Felt like he didn't have the ball much. Napier was not impressive. Alexander.....I didn't see any impact from him...D league special for him.

 

[Pinwheel1]

What I am seeing are guys doing more than they would normally in a real NBA game. Most of them should not be dribbling in traffic. Do you remember how bad CJ looked trying to do the same during summer league? He could not bring the ball up against pressure.
Having said that:

Vonleh is a keeper. But he might not get many minutes again this year.

Layman looks pretty good for a rookie. Again we have to account for the longer 3 pt line vs what he has been used to in college. We got spoiled by Dame, most players (even CJ) need time to adjust to it while being covered in a game. But he is more athletic than I expected. Definitely a keeper.

Pat C: Granted he looks bad. But he might be better than he looks depending on his role coming off the bench in short stints. I don't think he has regressed, I just think he needs better players surrounding him to be effective. However right now if they got rid of him..... I would not lose any sleep over it.

Montero: Still not ready but he is bigger and better than last year.....by a long ways.

Napier: Has not been with the team long enough to judge.

 

[rotary111]

This might be the worst summer league team we have had in awhile. We have no offense at all. Everyone looks lost. It's hard to judge anyone when they have no system. How many times did they not get a shot off or just drive and lose the ball while everyone stood and watched. Our main guys will struggle to look good no matter what they do if everyone is trying to play hero ball.

Pat looks frustrated to even be a part of the team.

Once again Vonleh looks keepable and Luis and Pat still need the rest of the team to look decent.

Layman does show some promise though, I like his hustle.

 

[Natebishop3]

I really like Vonleh. He still looks raw, but you can see that he has matured.

 

[Denny Crane]

I take the SL games with a grain of salt.

The players are there to work on specific aspects of their games or to tryout for a roster spot. Guys often look great in SL and suck in the NBA games.

 

[Natebishop3]

Guys often look great in SL and suck in the NBA games.

True, but as someone else pointed out, guys rarely look like shit in the summer league and look great in NBA games.

 

[Denny Crane]

True, but as someone else pointed out, guys rarely look like shit in the summer league and look great in NBA games.

I think almost all the players look like shit in the SL games. Only a few stand out and those are the Simmons types.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think almost all the players look like shit in the SL games. Only a few stand out and those are the Simmons types.

I don't think that's true. Vonleh looks good. Crabbe looked good. CJ looked good. Damian looked good.

The only person that people pointed to who looked like shit in SL and great in the NBA was Batum, but it was literally his first taste of American basketball and he only played in one SL.

 

[craigehlo]

Don't forget Bayless looked like the 2nd coming of BRoy in Summer League.

 

[Natebishop3]

Don't forget Bayless looked like the 2nd coming of BRoy in Summer League.

Bayless averaged 30 ppg in SL, but half of those points were from free throws. He averaged 8-17 shooting (48.5%) over 4 games. The dude got to the line constantly, which is why it wasn't sustainable.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Don't forget Bayless looked like the 2nd coming of BRoy in Summer League.

I watched all those games and I was not impressed. Most of his points were from free throws. Adding to my unease was the fact that he sat on the last day and his replacement (who had been chained to the bench up till that point, and who never made the league) also scored 30.

It's not about the boxscore. It's about watching the games. I thought Tyreke Evans looked as bad as Bayless (selfish, ball-hoggy, got assists only grudgingly and only because he ALWAYS had the ball) whereas Steph Curry, who put up pretty poor stats his first SL, still looked amazing - you could see talent oozing out of him.

Ben Simmons is this year's Steph Curry. Even his first couple of games where he wasn't taking shots, and the few he was taking he missed, you could see the talent.

 

[riverman]

I think almost all the players look like shit in the SL games. Only a few stand out and those are the Simmons types.

It's glorified pick up games...most of them never played together..everybody is coming back from vacation..they all looked gassed in the 4th except Vonleh and Montero..they looked to be in great shape

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Anyone who says Russ Smith is worth keeping might do well being reminded that basketball is a TEAM sport...

 

[riverman]

I watched all those games and I was not impressed. Most of his points were from free throws. Adding to my unease was the fact that he sat on the last day and his replacement (who had been chained to the bench up till that point, and who never made the league) also scored 30.

It's not about the boxscore. It's about watching the games. I thought Tyreke Evans looked as bad as Bayless (selfish, ball-hoggy, got assists only grudgingly and only because he ALWAYS had the ball) whereas Steph Curry, who put up pretty poor stats his first SL, still looked amazing - you could see talent oozing out of him.

Ben Simmons is this year's Steph Curry. Even his first couple of games where he wasn't taking shots, and the few he was taking he missed, you could see the talent.

I think Booker and Dunn have looked NBA ready and Simmons made me eat crow...looked way better than at LSU from my view..I didn't get the hype watching his college games but he looks like a young Magic Johnson without a jump shot out there..amazingly quick and clearly 100 percent ambidextrous ..he's going to be a superstar...I'm happy for Philly..they might be fun to watch and Gerald Henderson is a good mentor

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Don't forget Bayless looked like the 2nd coming of BRoy in Summer League.

[Edit: this repeats my earlier post because my computer crashed and I thought it was lost. But I said it slightly differently so I'll keep this one too.]

No he didn't. He looked like a pint-sized Corey Maggette. I watched all those games and I SO wanted to get excited about him, but he was a ball hog who got all his points from free throws. And, compounding my unease, he didn't play the last game and his replacement (who hadn't played at all up to that point and never made the league, and I can't even remember his name) scored 30 points.

It's not about the boxscores (otherwise I might be more excited about Vonleh) it's watching the game. Tyreke Evans was a stat stuffer in SL and Steph Curry wasn't at all, but you could just tell (and this isn't revisionist history - I was saying this at the time) that Curry was oozing talent, while Evans, like Bayless, was a ballhog who was big but not a great player.

And watching the games with these guys is just depressing. Connaughton above all: he should be the perfect complementary player because he has two valuable skills: rebounding and three point shooting. But you can't afford to have him in the games because he's a total liability at everything else, defense especially. It's a misnomer to call him "athletic". Yes, he can jump high. But he doesn't seem to have any twitch muscles - ANYBODY can get by him. And he can't dribble or hold on to the ball. If he was 7 feet tall he'd be interesting, but he's guard size and he doesn't have even SF skills.

 

[Natebishop3]

[Edit: this repeats my earlier post because my computer crashed and I thought it was lost. But I said it slightly differently so I'll keep this one too.]

No he didn't. He looked like a pint-sized Corey Maggette. I watched all those games and I SO wanted to get excited about him, but he was a ball hog who got all his points from free throws. And, compounding my unease, he didn't play the last game and his replacement (who hadn't played at all up to that point and never made the league, and I can't even remember his name) scored 30 points.

It's not about the boxscores (otherwise I might be more excited about Vonleh) it's watching the game. Tyreke Evans was a stat stuffer in SL and Steph Curry wasn't at all, but you could just tell (and this isn't revisionist history - I was saying this at the time) that Curry was oozing talent, while Evans, like Bayless, was a ballhog who was big but not a great player.

And watching the games with these guys is just depressing. Connaughton above all: he should be the perfect complementary player because he has two valuable skills: rebounding and three point shooting. But you can't afford to have him in the games because he's a total liability at everything else, defense especially. It's a misnomer to call him "athletic". Yes, he can jump high. But he doesn't seem to have any twitch muscles - ANYBODY can get by him. And he can't dribble or hold on to the ball. If he was 7 feet tall he'd be interesting, but he's guard size and he doesn't have even SF skills.

Connaughton's athleticism is extremely overrated. I just don't see it. Layman looks more athletic to me.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

What's the point of hanging on to (say) Connaughton? Where does he get minutes? We have:
CJ
Crabbe
Evan Turner
Aminu
(possibly) Harkless
(possibly) Montero

at his position. And none of them should give up minutes, not even ONE minute, to Connaughton.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The other thing: Connaughton will be 24 in January. Compare him to Devin Booker, who is still a teenager, and Dejounte Murray, likewise. And Murray was taken with a LOW first round pick. And yet he was so much more talented than anyone on our roster, it was just dispiriting. And of course Devin Booker, that's true tenfold.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

(While I'm ranting) People need to separate their necessary from their sufficient conditions.
Bayless proves that looking good in a SL boxscore isn't SUFFICIENT for being a good NBA player.
Batum proves that looking good in a SL boxscore isn't NECESSARY for being a good NBA player.

BUT: that doesn't mean that there isn't some correlation. And it doesn't mean that actually watching the games won't give you some indication.

 

[Natebishop3]

The other thing: Connaughton will be 24 in January. Compare him to Devin Booker, who is still a teenager, and Dejounte Murray, likewise. And Murray was taken with a LOW first round pick. And yet he was so much more talented than anyone on our roster, it was just dispiriting. And of course Devin Booker, that's true tenfold.

Booker reminds me of Joe Johnson when he was in summer league.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't think that's true. Vonleh looks good. Crabbe looked good. CJ looked good. Damian looked good.

The only person that people pointed to who looked like shit in SL and great in the NBA was Batum, but it was literally his first taste of American basketball and he only played in one SL.

And Lonny Baxter won SL MVP.

 

[Natebishop3]

And Lonny Baxter won SL MVP.

This is a different argument. You said:

I think almost all the players look like shit in the SL games. Only a few stand out and those are the Simmons types.

I was saying that we've had a number of guys stand out in summer league that went on to be successful in the NBA. Not sure why you're shifting gears and now playing the "Scrubs look good in the summer league" card.