Is Christianity a cult?

[Further]

There are lots of thoughts on both sides of the issue. Let's just start with the Merriam-Webster definition.

Definition of CULT

1
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion





What say you?

 

[Further]

This is a response I found that I liked, mostly because I like the term Cosmic Jewish Zombie

Christianity - The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree

Nah, does not sound like a cult to me.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

why limit it to Christianity? Oh that's right, its the cool thing to attack Christianity while praising all other "cults" like Islam, Judaism, etc. as beautiful "religions".

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

and to answer your question, no. It is not a cult because it is the most widely followed religion, not an outlier.

 

[Further]

why limit it to Christianity? Oh that's right, its the cool thing to attack Christianity while praising all other "cults" like Islam, Judaism, etc. as beautiful "religions".

I was calling out Christianity because I know people on this board are Christians. I know of one practicing Jew, crandc, so you could add that in I guess, but I don't think we have any Islam, Hindu, or Sikhs, but if you want to address those too, feel free.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I was calling out Christianity because I know people on this board are Christians. I know of one practicing Jew, crandc, so you could add that in I guess, but I don't think we have any Islam, Hindu, or Sikhs, but if you want to address those too, feel free.

well, the majority of religion atheist attacks are against christians because its not PC to attack Jews and Muslims. just wanted to point that out.

 

[Further]

and to answer your question, no. It is not a cult because it is the most widely followed religion, not an outlier.

So Heavens Gate was only a cult because they weren't popular? If Heavens Gate was the most common religion it would not be a cult?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

So Heavens Gate was only a cult because they weren't popular? If Heavens Gate was the most common religion it would not be a cult?

nope. it would not be a cult if it were one of the 5 major religions.

 

[blazerboy30]

I find it interesting that a self-proclaimed atheists spend so much time starting threads trying to call out religious folks because the atheist isn't secure with their beliefs.

But I'll play along for a minute:

Cult: 2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

religion: Details of belief as taught or discussed.

religion: System of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Also from Merriam-Webster:

atheism: The doctrine or belief that there is no deity

atheism: The theory or belief that God does not exist.

Is atheism a cult?

:MARIS61: :MARIS61:

 

[Further]

well, the majority of religion atheist attacks are against Christians because its not PC to attack Jews and Muslims. just wanted to point that out.

There is a reason Christianity is the main religion attacked, it sets the standard in our society. The majority of our populous considers itself Christian. the old adage "don't pick on someone smaller than you" kind of applies, you attack the big dog, the one who sets the societal norms. And in our country, that's Christianity.

I personally don't like all the threads calling out Obama all the time, but he is the President, and for good or bad, that puts him in the cross-hairs. I don't read many of those threads, and when I do read them, I hardly ever reply. Perhaps if the threads discussing the validity of your religion are too personal, upsetting or just annoying, then you skip those threads.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

There is a reason Christianity is the main religion attacked, it sets the standard in our society. The majority of our populous considers itself Christian. the old adage "don't pick on someone smaller than you" kind of applies, you attack the big dog, the one who sets the societal norms. And in our country, that's Christianity.

I personally don't like all the threads calling out Obama all the time, but he is the President, and for good or bad, that puts him in the cross-hairs. I don't read many of those threads, and when I do read them, I hardly ever reply. Perhaps if the threads discussing the validity of your religion are too personal, upsetting or just annoying, then you skip those threads.

I do generally skip those threads because its a waste of time. The singling out of christianity is just rampant from a certain section of this country, wheras most would dare not utter the same about the other religions like Judaism or Islam, not because of some "standards set in our society", but because its essentially seen as bigoted hate mongering in this country to do so.

 

[Further]

Is atheism a cult?

:MARIS61: :MARIS61:

Interesting question. Let's take a look according to the definition.
1) formal religious veneration : worship

Certainly does not fit this part of the definition. There is no worship or formal religious veneration.

2) a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Not here either. Not a system of religious beliefs since there is no religion to subscribe to .

3) religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

Well, you could claim that atheism is unorthodox, but it certainly is not a religion and is not spurious. It is what it is, a claim that there is no god.

4) : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
Atheism makes no claim to cure disease so this one does not fit.

Lastly we have
5) a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
There is no deity or pope-like person, so (a) doesn't apply, although you could falsely make the claim that we regard Hitchens in that way, but most see him just as a smart person with some good things to read.
(b) there is no object of great devotion.
(c) Some of the atheists are in small groups and are quite devoted to the idea of atheism. This would be, in my opinion, the only part of the definition that might come close enough to in some cases claim that atheism is a cult. But, we are talking about really reaching to make that claim. Mostly, I think it's comical that you would turn this around this way, there is really no connection to be drawn from atheism as cultists, but there are many ways to make the claim of Christianity as cultists.

 

[Further]

I do generally skip those threads because its a waste of time. The singling out of christianity is just rampant from a certain section of this country, wheras most would dare not utter the same about the other religions like Judaism or Islam, not because of some "standards set in our society", but because its essentially seen as bigoted hate mongering in this country to do so.

Well let me say my opinion clearly, I find all those religions including Islam to be based on lies, as I do Christianity. All of them claim to know god, to know there is a god, and to know what god wants. All of those are bull in my mind.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Colloqiually I think the word "cult" has a connotation that isn't present in the textbook Merriam-Webster definition. To me it denotes a practice of religious belief headlined by a charismatic (living) character, where followers pledge their loyalty and lives to this singular figurehead and usually has some sort of sexual deviancy associated with it (plural marriages, women becoming the sole "property" of the charismatic leader, forced castration, etc.). In modern times, this brings up belief systems that centered around guys like Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Heaven's gate dude.

So does 1st century C.E Christianity meet this colloquial definition of a cult? Maybe. It was certainly deemed dangerous by the Roman authorities and the mainstream Jewish faith that it sprang from, but in modern terms I don't think you can call it a "cult."

 

[blazerboy30]

Interesting question. Let's take a look according to the definition.
1) formal religious veneration : worship

Certainly does not fit this part of the definition. There is no worship or formal religious veneration.

2) a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Not here either. Not a system of religious beliefs since there is no religion to subscribe to .

False. See my post with definitions above.

3) religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

Well, you could claim that atheism is unorthodox, but it certainly is not a religion and is not spurious. It is what it is, a claim that there is no god.

False. See my post with definitions above.

4) : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
Atheism makes no claim to cure disease so this one does not fit.

Lastly we have
5) a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad

b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
There is no deity or pope-like person, so (a) doesn't apply, although you could falsely make the claim that we regard Hitchens in that way, but most see him just as a smart person with some good things to read.
(b) there is no object of great devotion.
(c) Some of the atheists are in small groups and are quite devoted to the idea of atheism. This would be, in my opinion, the only part of the definition that might come close enough to in some cases claim that atheism is a cult. But, we are talking about really reaching to make that claim. Mostly, I think it's comical that you would turn this around this way, there is really no connection to be drawn from atheism as cultists, but there are many ways to make the claim of Christianity as cultists.

You've got to be kidding or trolling.

Go back and read my post with the definitions. It is completely logical and based on widely accepted definitions.

If you claim that there is no connection between atheism and cultists, but claim there is a connection between christians and cultists, you're being intellectually dishonest and won't take a logical, unbiased look at your own beliefs.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

There are lots of thoughts on both sides of the issue. Let's just start with the Merriam-Webster definition.

Definition of CULT

1
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion





What say you?

Well, by this definition, no.

 

[Further]

a belief that something doesn't exist is not the same as a doctrine of belief. I'll put it this way, the entirety of what atheists believe can be fully written in one small sentence. "There is no god." But there is an entire doctrine of belief in Christianity. The flood and Jesus and the disciples and god and on and on and on. There is a pretty long book specifying what that doctrine is. The two just don't equate in that way. If anything I would say that Nikolokolus had a very good reason why Christianity is not a cult. It might not match up with the dictionary definition, but I do agree that there is a general belief in society that cults are centered around a charismatic leader. And I'm not trying to prove one thing or the other. I have not been a well educated or well versed atheist. I am asking these questions honestly. I think there are several possible answers to my question. There is yes, there is no, there is yes but who cares, and all can be supported in some capacity. We, in this thread are not going to find a definitive answer, but we could further our thinking on the subject.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i bet jesus could cure a super bad hangover instantly, no wonder a dozen wine drunkards followed him around

he never had the sex though, i agree with whomever, usually some weird perverse sex thing makes people think cult

i bet he got boners though

 

[3RA1N1AC]

not believing in god for your own reasons is a religious cult!!

 

[Further]

i bet jesus could cure a super bad hangover instantly, no wonder a dozen wine drunkards followed him around

he never had the sex though, i agree with whomever, usually some weird perverse sex thing makes people think cult

i bet he got boners though

So Catholicism is but Christianity is not?

 

[magnifier661]

Colloqiually I think the word "cult" has a connotation that isn't present in the textbook Merriam-Webster definition. To me it denotes a practice of religious belief headlined by a charismatic (living) character, where followers pledge their loyalty and lives to this singular figurehead and usually has some sort of sexual deviancy associated with it (plural marriages, women becoming the sole "property" of the charismatic leader, forced castration, etc.). In modern times, this brings up belief systems that centered around guys like Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Heaven's gate dude.

So does 1st century B.C.E Christianity meet this colloquial definition of a cult? Maybe. It was certainly deemed dangerous by the Roman authorities and the mainstream Jewish faith that it sprang from, but in modern terms I don't think you can call it a "cult."

That is a great analogy. I would agree... Although I believe there are many people that use Christianity and its power on the faithful to start church cults. Kinda like your Jim Jones and David Koresh reference.

 

[Further]

That is a great analogy. I would agree... Although I believe there are many people that use Christianity and its power on the faithful to start churches. Kinda like your Jim Jones and David Koresh reference.

I thought it was a pretty good point as well. So perhaps Christianity as a whole is not a cult, but there are many subsets, built around one preacher or pastor who is particularly charismatic, that might fit the Cult label better.

 

[blazerboy30]

a belief that something doesn't exist is not the same as a doctrine of belief.

Yes it absolutely is. There is no magical threshold at which a number of beliefs or statements in a doctrine officially becomes a doctrine. A widely accepted definition of atheism specifically states that it is a doctrine of beliefs.

I'll put it this way, the entirety of what atheists believe can be fully written in one small sentence. "There is no god." But there is an entire doctrine of belief in Christianity. The flood and Jesus and the disciples and god and on and on and on. There is a pretty long book specifying what that doctrine is. The two just don't equate in that way.

Ah, so now you want to decide whether or not something is a cult based on the size of their doctrine.

You're grasping at straws here.

If anything I would say that Nikolokolus had a very good reason why Christianity is not a cult. It might not match up with the dictionary definition, but I do agree that there is a general belief in society that cults are centered around a charismatic leader. And I'm not trying to prove one thing or the other. I have not been a well educated or well versed atheist. I am asking these questions honestly.

No you aren't. You're trolling and ignoring the logical, definition-based reasoning that shows just as much of a connection between atheism and cults as christianity and cults. If you were asking these questions honestly, you'd be open to accepting the other side of the coin.

I think there are several possible answers to my question. There is yes, there is no, there is yes but who cares, and all can be supported in some capacity. We, in this thread are not going to find a definitive answer, but we could further our thinking on the subject.

Yes, and I gave you an answer using your own definitions. You didn't like it and claimed it as no connection. This shows that you don't want to have a discussion, you want to be intellectually dishonest, and want people to just respond in agreement that christianity is a cult so it makes you feel better about your beliefs.

 

[Further]

Yes, and I gave you an answer using your own definitions. You didn't like it and claimed it as no connection. This shows that you don't want to have a discussion, you want to be intellectually dishonest, and want people to just respond in agreement that christianity is a cult so it makes you feel better about your beliefs.

You are not reading my posts then.

 

[magnifier661]

I thought it was a pretty good point as well. So perhaps Christianity as a whole is not a cult, but there are many subsets, built around one preacher or pastor who is particularly charismatic, that might fit the Cult label better.

Yes, just like certain atheist groups like the Soviet Union or China, that used Atheism to murder millions of people. Anytime you have a group of people that share the same beliefs with a passionate level, the wrong leader can make them do crazy things.

 

[blazerboy30]

You are not reading my posts then.

I've read them. And they are the same as the other multitude of threads you've started for trolling purposes.

 

[Further]

I've read them. And they are the same as the other multitude of threads you've started for trolling purposes.

Well considering i have said in a couple of responses that I agreed with Nikolokolus post and that Christianity might not be a cult, I don't believe you.

 

[blazerboy30]

Well considering i have said in a couple of responses that I agreed with Nikolokolus post and that Christianity might not be a cult, I don't believe you.

Way to go out on a limb of open-mindedness: "Chrisianity might not be a cult".

Where did you state that "atheism might be a cult", which would actually show that you're open to discussion?

 

[MarAzul]

Try this for a cult. But then maybe Fatwa is a more accurate term.

http://www.thenationofislam.org/greateststoryevertold.html

 

[Further]

Way to go out on a limb of open-mindedness: "Chrisianity might not be a cult".

Where did you state that "atheism might be a cult", which would actually show that you're open to discussion?

Well I got sidetracked with your line of interrogation, but I was going to agree with Mags here

Yes, just like certain atheist groups like the Soviet Union or China, that used Atheism to murder millions of people. Anytime you have a group of people that share the same beliefs with a passionate level, the wrong leader can make them do crazy things.

I would agree that these, particularly the Soviet Union, in which there Atheism became a cult or at least cult-like. I am not sure if that is the case moving forward for the initial formation, because once people who were murderers came to power, we really don't know if the followers at that time were following the leader like a they would a cult leader, or following a leader so they wouldn't get their lives taken or their family ripped apart.

EDIT: Also, I am not sure since part of the belief was atheism, but a larger part of the belief, the unifying belief, was an economical and social belief shared by people, the religious aspect was more secondary. I would really have to think more about this issue.