Is it the team or is it the coach?
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logik15
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I hate how the coach doesn't know how to make ingame adjustments. He seems to run the same play everytime, bring up the ball, set up vince / rj in the post, let them create down in the post and they end up kicking out to someone who can't shoot because THEY are the shooters of the team, or taking a bad jumpshot due to a double team. I havn't seen the pick and roll that boone runs so well at all lately. Seems like every play there is a "ballstopper" as lawrence frnak would put it because his offense just blows. There is no motion, and I think this contributes to the whole identity thing. He draws plays that totally stop our offense. Also, why are all our big guys taking jumpshots and no one posting, i see swift taking jumpers all the time because VC/RJ have no one else to kick it out too. Then there's the zone defense that kills us apparently that we have no answer for. I also don't get his substitutions, seems like frank still doesn't know what he wants to do so he just puts people in hoping something good might happen. He says he uses the lineups to adjust to different teams... how come we can never make the other team adjust to us.
GMJ
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Mar 9 2008, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>umm #3 should be our first priority... GET A NEW COACH then everything else will fall into place</div>
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
zєяσ
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Most of you that think this team is good are in denial. Granted the coach is not great, but neither is the collection of talent.
The shooters on this team are too streaky, the star players are wings(meaning there is no respectable player in the paint), and the bigs cannot create their own shot. Even if you have all those types of players, it then depends on the coach and the type of character the players present.
For example, take a look at the Knicks and you see that they do have great talent at almost every position, shooters and bigs; however the players cannot get along and refuse to play organized basketball respectfully. Also, the coach is completely terrible.
Seriously, I am getting sick and tired of posters on this board trying to play the blame game. Accept the fact that we just started rebuilding.
The shooters on this team are too streaky, the star players are wings(meaning there is no respectable player in the paint), and the bigs cannot create their own shot. Even if you have all those types of players, it then depends on the coach and the type of character the players present.
For example, take a look at the Knicks and you see that they do have great talent at almost every position, shooters and bigs; however the players cannot get along and refuse to play organized basketball respectfully. Also, the coach is completely terrible.
Seriously, I am getting sick and tired of posters on this board trying to play the blame game. Accept the fact that we just started rebuilding.
rory
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unstop @ Mar 9 2008, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Mar 9 2008, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is a bad team on paper and on the floor.
1) They have no player with a burning desire to win
2) Their best offensive player is significantly hampered by injury
3) They are lacking players that other teams have to respect on the perimeter</div>
Ding ding ding!!!
Our "superstar" tends to remind me of the kid on your little league team who doesn't really want to play, but is there every year because his dad keeps signing him up.
Vince doesn't care if he wins or loses. He'll try sometimes... but not nearly often enough, and not nearly hard enough. Injuries schminjuries. Other than his first season here and his first years in the league, 90% of all the play by play during Vince games is about how he needs to attack the basket more. Wanna get fucked up? Make a drinking game out of every time Marv and/or Mark and/or Sparky mention Vince's name and things like "needs to be more aggressive" and "attack the rim" and "bad shot" and "settling" and so on. This is just Vince Carter basketball, like it or not. And, because of the injuries, and because of his not-so-gradual decline in athletic ability... this just becomes worse and worse by the season. Combine this with his overall lack of burning desire to, ya know, win... and the fact that he's your team's "guy," and the result is one horrible ****ing basketball team. Which of course, is exactly what we have.
And RJ... he's a shitty first option, and a shitty second option. He's an alright 3rd option though, especially on a running team... neither of which is true right now. This only adds to the reasons why we suck.
And, just for added fun, neither guy plays defense. I have a vague memory of RJ locking down the other teams best player on a fairly consistent basis. I must have dreamed that or something. I think I can also remember a time when RJ took less jumpers than Vince. Heck, I think it may even have been this season. Nope, must have dreamed that too.
These are our current leaders/superstars/go-to-guys, mind you.
Oh, and I might think the coach sucks too. At first I wasn't sure and leaned more towards being pro-coach and anti-players, now I'm still anti-players, but leaning more towards anti-coach. This may be because he does a lot (more so this season than ever before) of dumb shit, but it also may be because I'm so annoyed at watching this team that I just want to start fresh. Get rid of everything left over from the Kidd era (which would include Frank, RJ and Vince), and start a new era. The Boone Era, The Williams Era (this could double as two guy's eras, which is a bonus for the marketing guys), The Devin Era... I don't give a shit whose era it is, I just want something new. Keep the young guys, bring in a coach better suited for coaching/developing young guys and actually understands offense, bring in some good parts that actually compliment each other (as in, don't surround Jason Kidd with guys who don't ****ing run, you idiots), maybe try that whole defensive minded running team again. Guys like Devin and Sean are good pieces for building that type of team.
What's the worst that can happen? We end up sucking slightly less than we sucked this season and we are 50 times more fun to watch?
</div>
I agree with about 90% of this post. I mean, there's a reason no Vince Carter team has ever won 50 games in a season. You can blame the coaches/other players all you want - but you would think a "franchise player" would get to 50 wins once in 10 years. I'm also leaning towards the anti-coach sentiment, too. I think Frank is very smart, but the team probably needs a completely clean slate. But my fear is the "coaching carousel" that rebuilding teams get into. If you are thinking about worst-case-scenarios, see Golden State 1994-2006 - where they had 9 different coaches. I don't want to wait until I'm 35 for the Nets to make the playoffs again.
1) They have no player with a burning desire to win
2) Their best offensive player is significantly hampered by injury
3) They are lacking players that other teams have to respect on the perimeter</div>
Ding ding ding!!!
Our "superstar" tends to remind me of the kid on your little league team who doesn't really want to play, but is there every year because his dad keeps signing him up.
Vince doesn't care if he wins or loses. He'll try sometimes... but not nearly often enough, and not nearly hard enough. Injuries schminjuries. Other than his first season here and his first years in the league, 90% of all the play by play during Vince games is about how he needs to attack the basket more. Wanna get fucked up? Make a drinking game out of every time Marv and/or Mark and/or Sparky mention Vince's name and things like "needs to be more aggressive" and "attack the rim" and "bad shot" and "settling" and so on. This is just Vince Carter basketball, like it or not. And, because of the injuries, and because of his not-so-gradual decline in athletic ability... this just becomes worse and worse by the season. Combine this with his overall lack of burning desire to, ya know, win... and the fact that he's your team's "guy," and the result is one horrible ****ing basketball team. Which of course, is exactly what we have.
And RJ... he's a shitty first option, and a shitty second option. He's an alright 3rd option though, especially on a running team... neither of which is true right now. This only adds to the reasons why we suck.
And, just for added fun, neither guy plays defense. I have a vague memory of RJ locking down the other teams best player on a fairly consistent basis. I must have dreamed that or something. I think I can also remember a time when RJ took less jumpers than Vince. Heck, I think it may even have been this season. Nope, must have dreamed that too.
These are our current leaders/superstars/go-to-guys, mind you.
Oh, and I might think the coach sucks too. At first I wasn't sure and leaned more towards being pro-coach and anti-players, now I'm still anti-players, but leaning more towards anti-coach. This may be because he does a lot (more so this season than ever before) of dumb shit, but it also may be because I'm so annoyed at watching this team that I just want to start fresh. Get rid of everything left over from the Kidd era (which would include Frank, RJ and Vince), and start a new era. The Boone Era, The Williams Era (this could double as two guy's eras, which is a bonus for the marketing guys), The Devin Era... I don't give a shit whose era it is, I just want something new. Keep the young guys, bring in a coach better suited for coaching/developing young guys and actually understands offense, bring in some good parts that actually compliment each other (as in, don't surround Jason Kidd with guys who don't ****ing run, you idiots), maybe try that whole defensive minded running team again. Guys like Devin and Sean are good pieces for building that type of team.
What's the worst that can happen? We end up sucking slightly less than we sucked this season and we are 50 times more fun to watch?
</div>
I agree with about 90% of this post. I mean, there's a reason no Vince Carter team has ever won 50 games in a season. You can blame the coaches/other players all you want - but you would think a "franchise player" would get to 50 wins once in 10 years. I'm also leaning towards the anti-coach sentiment, too. I think Frank is very smart, but the team probably needs a completely clean slate. But my fear is the "coaching carousel" that rebuilding teams get into. If you are thinking about worst-case-scenarios, see Golden State 1994-2006 - where they had 9 different coaches. I don't want to wait until I'm 35 for the Nets to make the playoffs again.
danxcr
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Mar 9 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Mar 9 2008, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>umm #3 should be our first priority... GET A NEW COACH then everything else will fall into place</div>
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
</div>
well... if we get a coach that can actually inspire these players to play
its so sad too see the nets in this state... i mean... we have the talent to compete... CMON GUYS!
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
</div>
well... if we get a coach that can actually inspire these players to play
cpawfan
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Mar 10 2008, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Mar 9 2008, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danxcr @ Mar 9 2008, 04:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>umm #3 should be our first priority... GET A NEW COACH then everything else will fall into place</div>
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
</div>
well... if we get a coach that can actually inspire these players to play
its so sad too see the nets in this state... i mean... we have the talent to compete... CMON GUYS!
</div>
Inspire??? Pop doesn't inspire players.
The Nets may have talent to compete, but they don't have talent to win. It is on the front office, not the coaching staff.
I'm not happy with Frank leading this team, but it's definitely not that easy. Based on everything you've seen from the Nets this year I don't think you can say it's that easy; "falling into place" is a bit of a stretch.
</div>
well... if we get a coach that can actually inspire these players to play
</div>
Inspire??? Pop doesn't inspire players.
The Nets may have talent to compete, but they don't have talent to win. It is on the front office, not the coaching staff.
d-blockrep2
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (insider @ Mar 10 2008, 01:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Thorn is in denial with the Frank situation. The teams fine, not the coach.</div>
Although its evident that Frank's skims are ineffective and in many ways amateur and uncreative. Thorn is going to keep being in denial about Lawrence Frank or else it comes down for Bruce Ratner, remeber Thorn extended Frank's contract to a 2 years 8.6 mill, if he pushes for Frank's ousting, it proves two things, Kidd had more to say in the organization than it was lead on to be and second in the eyes of Ratner, Thorn just wasted 8.6 mill on a bad coach.
Although its evident that Frank's skims are ineffective and in many ways amateur and uncreative. Thorn is going to keep being in denial about Lawrence Frank or else it comes down for Bruce Ratner, remeber Thorn extended Frank's contract to a 2 years 8.6 mill, if he pushes for Frank's ousting, it proves two things, Kidd had more to say in the organization than it was lead on to be and second in the eyes of Ratner, Thorn just wasted 8.6 mill on a bad coach.
Kidd Karma
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I found some interesting bits from Avery Johnson, praising Kidd, Allen, Magloire and Wright for their basketball smarts, now Kidd, Allen and Mags should somewhat have developed it on their own.....but Wright? Wright has only had one professional coach, and for Johnson to come out say that about Wright should speak volumes about Frank's coaching ability. Now Frank has to get the motivational side down, I guess it's hard when you're losing:
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/news/MavsCats_notes_031208.html
http://www.nba.com/mavericks/news/MavsCats_notes_031208.html
pegs
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>“I really feel we are a much smarter team,” Avery Johnson said Wednesday prior to taking on the Bobcats. “We communicate better, even through the losses. I was telling my coaches, this had been after some tough losses on the road, if nothing else, we definitely improved with passing and we improved with our basketball knowledge.
“Even Wright for a young player, he’s been making some plays in practice and in games that are just instinctive, that are high basketball IQ plays. Malik is bright and Kidd, it’s well-documented what he is.”</div>
It's one thing to be smart, and another thing to be a good basketball player. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Malik.
Plus, don't give me that bullshit with Antoine. He couldn't hit a shot or even a layup if his life depended on it. You could take a basketball genius and throw him on the court...but if he couldn't play, it doesn't matter.
So...is Avery saying Devin, The Capitol, Ager, and Diop are all dumb?
“Even Wright for a young player, he’s been making some plays in practice and in games that are just instinctive, that are high basketball IQ plays. Malik is bright and Kidd, it’s well-documented what he is.”</div>
It's one thing to be smart, and another thing to be a good basketball player. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Malik.
Plus, don't give me that bullshit with Antoine. He couldn't hit a shot or even a layup if his life depended on it. You could take a basketball genius and throw him on the court...but if he couldn't play, it doesn't matter.
So...is Avery saying Devin, The Capitol, Ager, and Diop are all dumb?
