Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged)

[magnifier661]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Its because Roy and Aldridge were both rookies. Team in heavy transition.

Hey I am definitely not knocking you for having love for Zach. There was never doubt that he was a great rebounder and scorer. And who knows... I mean, we could have kept Zach, Roy, LMA and grabbed Durant. But in all honesty, I think and still think it was the right choice at the time. No one would have guessed Oden would be a injury nightmare and Roy would lose all his knees by this time. So arguments could be made, but what would have happened if Oden wasn't injured or Roy still had his body to back his heart.

Hindsight is 20/20

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Its not so much the ZBO love as I thought the trade was a TERRIBLE one to make.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Kevin Durant recently called Zach the best PF in the League.

"He's a monster."

Basically said he's unguardable on the block and he makes life for them even tougher when his mid-range jumper is falling.

 

[mook]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

I'm on the Grizzly bandwagon from here on out. It's just a lot of fun watching Zach add great passing to an overall awesome offensive game. And that team has really added good-to-excellent defenders at all other positions, making his poor defense less of a liability. Zach and Gasol are the kind of big man tandem I'd always hoped Aldridge/Oden would be. (Well, I'd hoped our guys would be much better on the defensive end, but on offense...)

The way they closed out the Spurs and then stole home court advantage against the Thunder 48 hours later was really, really impressive. They're really an 8th seed in name only--they could've been a 5th seed if things had gone a little differently.

A lot of times it seems like guys who barely miss the All Star game one year have dominant playoff performances that solidify them as All Stars for several subsequent years. I was really hoping that'd happen with Aldridge, but it looks to me like if it comes down to LA or Z-bo for an All-Star spot, it's going to go to Z-bo from here on out.

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

I wonder if getting passed from team to team like a cheap blunt affected Zach's maturity level.


Nah, probably not.


Had Z-Bo stayed in Portland he would not have matured in the same way and would most likely still be raping strippers while leading his team to a 33 win season year after year.

Good for him that he has figured some shit out.
Too bad for Portland he had to be a completely fuck while he was here.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

I posted this in the James Jones thread, since it was also discussing the Zach trade, but it really belongs here:

The Zach we traded also isn't the same Zach that is now playing for Memphis. Zach's shot selection has improved greatly, and as a result, so have his shooting percentages. He is also rebounding even better than he did in Portland. Yeah, he's cleaned up the off court problems, but he's also improved substantially on the court (after two down years with the Knicks and Clippers). Compare these numbers from Zach's last (and best) season in Portland:

ORtg = 106
DRtg = 109
WS = 5.7
WS/48 = 0.112

To this season in Memphis:

ORtg = 115
DRtg = 105
WS = 10.5
WS/48 = 0.185

Zach was very immature, both on the court and off, when he was here. In hindsight, we gave up on him two early (so did the Knicks and Clippers). He was 25 when we traded him, and had two down seasons immediately after the trade. Now, at 29, in Memphis he has matured into a much better player. The basic skills haven't changed. He's just learned how to use them more effectively. He scores less, but is a more efficient scorer. He's rebounding at the highest rate of his career and led the league in ORB% this season (take THAT Kevin Love), and he's a key reason why Memphis led the league in points in the paint during the regular season and why they are doing so well in the post season.

BTW, that Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol isn't looking so horrible these days. Marc and Zach together give the Grizzlies the best low post scoring/rebounding tandem in the league. They both score a ton of points in the paint, control the boards and Marc also gives them decent interior defense. He's not as gifted offensively as his brother, but he also doens't shy away from physical contact. Controlling the paint is a great strategy for winning in the post season. The Grizzlies led the league in points in the paint and that has carried over into the post season. It makes me wonder if losing Rudy Gay was a belssing in disguise. After Gay was injured, Memphis became a more inside oriented team, and less of a jump shooting team, and teams that can score in the paint traditionally do well in the post season.

BNM

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

There was a reason we gave ZBO that much money. He is not as horrible as everyone here thinks. He just got better since he's been in a system for a while where he has his role defined and had time to grow with teammates.

 

[Masbee]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

I was pissed about ZBO leaving for nothing in return. I did however understand the reason. He was the last tie to a pretty bad era here in Portland. They wanted to start from scratch and looked at it like an addition by subtraction type of thing. I love him, we could use his toughness!

The phrase "Addition by Subtraction" should be fucking banned in Portland.

If anyone in the Blazers org ever says it in the future - fired immediately.

Fuuuuuuuuuuck!

 

[Masbee]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

I posted this in the James Jones thread, since it was also discussing the Zach trade, but it really belongs here:

The Zach we traded also isn't the same Zach that is now playing for Memphis. BNM

Not that they were traded for each other, but I think it is very important to also remember that LaMarcus is not the same player he was at the time of the trade (or even the beginning of the season for that matter).

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Not that they were traded for each other, but I think it is very important to also remember that LaMarcus is not the same player he was at the time of the trade (or even the beginning of the season for that matter).

But understand the position and we are looking at this in hindsight.

1.) LMA was a good character and up and coming talent.

2.) We just got Oden; not knowing he was going to play only 80 games in 3 years. So basically we had to decide on LMA or Zach; thinking Oden will eventually be our franchise center.

3.) Roy was playing out of his mind and doing a great job at it too. Roy needed the ball in his hands to be the most effective and so did Zach. The next decision had to be made do we stick with Roy or Zach?

4.) Zach had some serious off court issues that hampered corporate sponsorship. This is still a business and they needed those corporate sponsors to be a business.

5.) Zach had on court issues as well, with fights with team mates and inability to share the ball after getting it into the post.

So yes, now Zach is way valuable for Memphis and would be if he was still a Blazer performing this very same way; but for every turnaround like Zach, there are 100 Latrell Sprewells or Marbury's.

Yes there could have been a Miller, Roy, Durrant, Zach and Aldridge starting line-up; but there still is a good chance of a Miller, Matthews, Wallace, LMA and Oden. Still a very tough and physical line-up. So sometimes we kick ourselves, but we still have a few years of Oden to see if the decision is truly the right choice.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Uhhh...the decision was already wasted in regards to Zach. Face it, it was a major league fuck up.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Uhhh...the decision was already wasted in regards to Zach. Face it, it was a major league fuck up.

Was it though? I mean seriously, would we be talking about this if Oden became the center he was supposed to be and Roy didn't have his injury? So you would of rather us trade LMA instead of Zach?

 

[Masbee]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Was it though? I mean seriously, would we be talking about this if Oden became the center he was supposed to be and Roy didn't have his injury? So you would of rather us trade LMA instead of Zach?

Would it be a popular subject? No.

Would those of us who thought the trade was a bad trade (for various reasons) at the time, a year later, two years later, and now magically have a different opinion? I doubt it.

If a trade is a bad trade, a series of unrelated events over a period of some years that together produce a good team does not change the fact that a bad trade was made - only that a bad trade was overcome in the process of building a good team.

 

[MickZagger]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Z-Bo is fun for me to watch. The guy can barely jump over a phone book, but can still abuse the opposition in the paint. He has a knack for putting the ball in the hole like few players I've seen.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Would it be a popular subject? No.

Would those of us who thought the trade was a bad trade (for various reasons) at the time, a year later, two years later, and now magically have a different opinion? I doubt it.

If a trade is a bad trade, a series of unrelated events over a period of some years that together produce a good team does not change the fact that a bad trade was made - only that a bad trade was overcome in the process of building a good team.

Okay are we talking value or talking about Zach being gone? Most this thread talked mainly about why did we trade away Zach. Yes the value was definitely a terrible one; but again, it wasn't like anyone else believed in Zach like many in here. If that was the case and everyone had the future in their hands, we probably could have traded Zach for Amare straight up back then. As you see it makes no sense. At the time, Zach didn't have much value. There was a reason. I believe if management had a better offer, they would of jumped on it like a wild pack of dogs on a fresh kill.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

Z-Bo is fun for me to watch. The guy can barely jump over a phone book, but can still abuse the opposition in the paint. He has a knack for putting the ball in the hole like few players I've seen.

Love the way ZBO uses his body. So effective.

 

[Masbee]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged

But understand the position and we are looking at this in hindsight.

1.) LMA was a good character and up and coming talent.

2.) We just got Oden; not knowing he was going to play only 80 games in 3 years. So basically we had to decide on LMA or Zach; thinking Oden will eventually be our franchise center.

3.) Roy was playing out of his mind and doing a great job at it too. Roy needed the ball in his hands to be the most effective and so did Zach. The next decision had to be made do we stick with Roy or Zach?

4.) Zach had some serious off court issues that hampered corporate sponsorship. This is still a business and they needed those corporate sponsors to be a business.

5.) Zach had on court issues as well, with fights with team mates and inability to share the ball after getting it into the post.

So yes, now Zach is way valuable for Memphis and would be if he was still a Blazer performing this very same way; but for every turnaround like Zach, there are 100 Latrell Sprewells or Marbury's.

Yes there could have been a Miller, Roy, Durrant, Zach and Aldridge starting line-up; but there still is a good chance of a Miller, Matthews, Wallace, LMA and Oden. Still a very tough and physical line-up. So sometimes we kick ourselves, but we still have a few years of Oden to see if the decision is truly the right choice.

You are overthinking this.

Trading Zach at that moment for such little value:

very little money savings for Paul Allen because he had to eat the Steve Francis contract. They had "better" bad contracts to send us. We got stuck with their worst one.

Channing had low value as he was coming off a real bad sophmore season, after his promising rookie year.

It was just a bad combination: hardly any salary relief and bench caliber talent.

The team went into to full-on panic mode and took it in the shorts. You can rationalize all you want, but they didn't have to trade him at that very moment.

What they needed to do - is the same thing they did with Damon -hold their fucking nose and wait until a better deal comes along.

If the Blazers didn't find a better deal before the trade deadline to move Zach, again not the end of the world. You claim it was Zach or LaMarcus. Why? Every team can use extra bigs. What would happen? Zach gets benched and lowers his trade value to some shit like having to eat a horrible contract for a player you don't want playing on your team and a bench player?

Tell Zach you are going to run plays for other players now, and he better start passing and playing a little defense or he goes to the bench. Tell the coach to work it out, but that he had full managment support to disipline players that don't toe the line, and you look for better deals. Then - boom - Oden goes down - and all of a sudden you still have 3 bigs worth a damn.