Is it time to panic about CJ?

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CJ been up and down this year but like people it only 8 games. But we got more scorer this year so when he has a bad game we got other players to pick up the slack this year while in past years we couldn't.
 
Haven't read the thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned.

CJ obviously put on a lot of muscle in the offseason. This type of thing throws off your shooting. There will be an adjustment period, but I fully expect him to be fine after 30 games or so.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Can you panic about one player and not be worried about the rest of the team?

Let's say that this isn't just a short term slump, if his numbers stay low, he could be damn near untradable with his contract. He's eating up a ton of cap space right now while being paid like an All-Star.
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Sure. But that is not the topic of discussion or my point. I am not panicking about CJ because he has had some very good games so far this year. I don't care about the analytics of 8 games. What I see is the team is having no problem scoring...... while he is on the floor. But again that is just 8 games. None-the-less no I am not panicking.

Dame gets hurt for 20 games and we suffer big time. Dame gets hurt and we have no CJ, then we are twice as fucked......unless we can pull of some fantasy trade that brings us back a better player. Good luck with that. We always need more players who can create their own shot. Not less. Personally I think Simons could be one of those players but we are another year or two away from that. Who else on the roster can? Not saying CJ is perfect but he has a skill set that is needed.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Sure. But that is not the topic of discussion or my point.
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How is it not the topic of the discussion? Rasta's original post is only about CJ. It says nothing about the success of the team.

Rastapopoulos said:
He's looking a bit lost this season. Is the new system no good for him? Was he padding his stats playing backup PG last year and now he's playing pretty much exclusively with Damian, is he being squeezed out?
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Natebishop3 said:
How is it not the topic of the discussion? Rasta's original post is only about CJ. It says nothing about the success of the team.
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They go hand in hand. People were responding that CJ was hurting the team when he was on the court. I disagree, therefore I am not panicking, he has had 4 good games and has helped the team.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
They go hand in hand. People were responding that CJ was hurting the team when he was on the court. I disagree, therefore I am not panicking, he has had 4 good games and has helped the team.
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Well then you and aren't having the same discussion because I'm only talking about CJ. I specifically said that I don't think we should be panicking, but that CJ simply isn't playing well so far this season. We can debate whether or not you think that's true, but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with the overall success of the team. It does not equate into my point. Unless you want to circle it back to Rasta's point, which is that our new roster/system is hurting his game.

So I guess if your point is that CJ's success is irrelevant because we're 6-2, we can debate that topic as well.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Well then you and aren't having the same discussion because I'm only talking about CJ..
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This I agree with.

Looking back on the thread I was agreeing with another poster, I had no idea what you had posted and was not responding to you. For the record I don't think he is playing well, I just don't think he is playing bad enough for me personally to panic after only 8 games. I think he has been very inconsistent.
 
Cj for Wes Matthews works straight up. We all know what Wes brings. It would clear a lot of space, and we could probably resign Wes for a decent figure.
 
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Never been a fan of CJ. I would be all for trading him for a cheaper version, who plays more of a team game. CJ is more a black hole when he gets the ball. I understand he is a shooter, but he is just to inconsistent and I have always thought his is a better 6th man off the bench. I think many have a higher impression of CJ in Portland, then the rest of the NBA.
 
CJ too often just gets into the lane and can't get his shot off among the taller defenders. When that's shut down, he has a 3-point shot. When that is shut down or not falling, he has nothing else. He's simply not athletic enough to make his presence felt meaningfully on a consistent basis.

He's a good player generally against bad team defenses. Against solid defenses, he doesn't have the ability to impose his will.
 
craigehlo said:
CJ too often just gets into the lane and can't get his shot off among the taller defenders. When that's shut down, he has a 3-point shot. When that is shut down or not falling, he has nothing else. .
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Well except for one of the better pull up mid range jump shots in the league. So basically he has 3 options on offense. Which is more than most.
 
craigehlo said:
CJ too often just gets into the lane and can't get his shot off among the taller defenders. When that's shut down, he has a 3-point shot. When that is shut down or not falling, he has nothing else. He's simply not athletic enough to make his presence felt meaningfully on a consistent basis.

He's a good player generally against bad team defenses. Against solid defenses, he doesn't have the ability to impose his will.
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You might want to fact check. Last year he averaged around 26ppg against the Pelicans in the playoffs. And other solid defensive teams this is what he averaged last year

GS 26.7 ppg

Memphis 30.9 ppg

Miami 22.6 ppg

Indiana 22.0 ppg

Boston 24.0 ppg

That's just a few of the better defensive teams that CJ has played very well against and he averaged over 22 ppg last year while shooting a very good percentage, How is that not consistent
 
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BonesJones said:
Or we could be talking about how great Dame and Zach have been. Or how Jusuf has improved. Or about Curry needing more responsibility and shot opportunities.
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You point out how crappy Niks defense is a lot, but I dont think Ive heard you criticize Seth for the same thing and he’s pretty bad on defense too.

I think Seths offense will come around, he hasnt looked like he can get his own shot all that well, he hasnt been coming off of screens hard for catch and shoots, to me yeah I think he could do more but he hasnt looked that quick yet and I assume he’s just rusty from missing a year.
 
If you look at CJ's shot distribution, he's actually giving himself a good chance to have the most efficient offensive season of his career if his %'s inside 10 feet bounce back to just slightly below his career averages.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mccolcj01.html#shooting::none

More of his shots are coming at the rim and from 3. And he's drawing more fouls. He's also taking less 3's off the dribble while still upping his overall volume.

The only concern is that assisted 2 point field goals are down, which would explain some of his struggles around the rim.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
You point out how crappy Niks defense is a lot, but I dont think Ive heard you criticize Seth for the same thing and he’s pretty bad on defense too.

I think Seths offense will come around, he hasnt looked like he can get his own shot all that well, he hasnt been coming off of screens hard for catch and shoots, to me yeah I think he could do more but he hasnt looked that quick yet and I assume he’s just rusty from missing a year.
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Not really. Seth is much more sound, and a better overall team defender.
 
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BonesJones said:
Not really. Seth is much more sound, and a better overall team defender.
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He really isn't.
dbpm for both players this year and for their career is in the negatives. dws favors stauskus on his career at 2.5 over curry at 2.1. For their careers, seth averages .8 steals and .1 blocks, nik averages .6 steals and .2blocks. Sure you might able to say oh Curry's "slightly" better than Nik on defense, but both pretty much suck on defense and it's not why either is out there. I know that defense is hard to quantify, but there isn't a single category either has been good at this year, or in their careers.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
He really isn't.
dbpm for both players this year and for their career is in the negatives. dws favors stauskus on his career at 2.5 over curry at 2.1. For their careers, seth averages .8 steals and .1 blocks, nik averages .6 steals and .2blocks. Sure might be about to say oh Curry's "slightly" better than Nik on defense, but both pretty much suck on defense and it's not why either is out there. I know that defense is hard to quantify, but there isn't a single category either has been good at this year, or in their careers.
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You do realize DWS is a camunalitve stat, right? Stauskas has played 5800 minutes while Curry has played 2800 minutes... so Curry definitely has the edge in regard to DWS... Based on my adjustments for minutes played (WS ÷ Min Played x 10,000), Curry has 7.5, while Nik has 4.3.

As far as "DBPM" being in the negatives - I'm not saying Curry's a good defender, I'm just saying he's not as bad as Stauskas, and Curry's career DBPM (-0.9) is better than Nik's (-1.5).

But the reflective objective of defensive box plus minus is skewed more by random variation than offensive box plus minus is, so that's where the eye test comes in handy. Curry is much better at staying in front of his defender and not gett8ng out of position, and is a much better defender off the ball when it comes to stunting, helping, and simply keeping track of his man.
 
BonesJones said:
You do realize DWS is a camunalitve stat, right? Stauskas has played 5800 minutes while Curry has played 2800 minutes... so Curry definitely has the edge in regard to DWS... Based on my adjustments for minutes played (WS ÷ Min Played x 10,000), Curry has 7.5, while Nik has 4.3.

As far as "DBPM" being in the negatives - I'm not saying Curry's a good defender, I'm just saying he's not as bad as Stauskas, and Curry's career DBPM (-0.9) is better than Nik's (-1.5).

But the reflective objective of defensive box plus minus is skewed more by random variation than offensive box plus minus is, so that's where the eye test comes in handy. Curry is much better at staying in front of his defender and not gett8ng out of position, and is a much better defender off the ball when it comes to stunting, helping, and simply keeping track of his man.
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I understand how dbpm works yes, but Id say my eyes test on defense well they both kind of suck. One might suck less but its not a lot less. I think Niks one on one defense is better, and Seth is better at being in the right spots defensively. I just think its weird how often Ive seen you talk about how bad Niks defense is and you never call out seth for his crappy defense, both even as blazers have had their fair share of not great defensive plays already.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I understand how dbpm works yes, but Id say my eyes test on defense well they both kind of suck. One might suck less but its not a lot less. I think Niks one on one defense is better, and Seth is better at being in the right spots defensively. I just think its weird how often Ive seen you talk about how bad Niks defense is and you never call out seth for his crappy defense, both even as blazers have had their fair share of not great defensive plays already.
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Nik's one-on-one defense is not better. He gets put off-balance way to easily and isn't as quick laterally as Curry.

I don't call out Seth, because his slightly below average defense comes from being undersized mostly. He gives good effort, and he doesn't have mental lapses often. He stays on his feet more than pretty much anyone on our team (we love pump fakes, including Nik), and usually Seth makes the correct decision off the ball defensively. He also doesn't get backcut as much as Stauskas. You can't control a lack of tools, but you can control your focus, effort, and decision making.

Stauskas is 4 inches taller, supposedly just as athletic, and is easily the worse defender of the two. That's why he gets so much more flack from me.
 
BonesJones said:
Nik's one-on-one defense is not better. He gets put off-balance way to easily and isn't as quick laterally as Curry.

I don't call out Seth, because his slightly below average defense comes from being undersized mostly. He gives good effort, and he doesn't have mental lapses often. He stays on his feet more than pretty much anyone on our team (we love pump fakes, including Nik), and usually Seth makes the correct decision off the ball defensively. He also doesn't get backcut as much as Stauskas. You can't control a lack of tools, but you can control your focus, effort, and decision making.

Stauskas is 4 inches taller, supposedly just as athletic, and is easily the worse defender of the two. That's why he gets so much more flack from me.
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I disagree with alot of what you said but its all just what you see vs what I see. I just think both of them suck on defense, but I am beginning to realize I need to reset my expectations of defense because we have a top 10 defense and to my eyes, Zach is the only guy on the team Id say is playing good defense... Would I say Seth is slighly better? sure. Nik to me is one of those guys who doesnt really play defense until he’s made a few shots, but once he gets into a rhythm on offense his focus on defense tends to get better, even then its not good defense but at least he pretends to pay attention.
 
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