Is Outlaw Worth It?

[BrianFromWA]

3) Lost in all the Travis love for tonight (where I was happy to see that he attacked the rim hard and went after rebounds) the BrianFromWA Rule of Travis (BROT) is still in effect: it's a crapshoot from play to play if he'll do something insanely boneheaded or that makes you stand up and scream like Braveheart. Not game to game or quarter to quarter; play to play. I was happy to see that he redeemed himself at the end tonight.

-From another thread - liking a team and player and being open to their retarded play are not mutually exclusive, no matter how cute the smiley running around in a circle is. Is there an "ostrich's head in the sand" smiley?

Tell me, STOMP and PapaG...since I'm obviously not as smart as NBA players on your favorite team, or coaches who play them, or GMs who sign them to short-term, relatively-bargain contracts with team options...how even I know that when you're up in the fourth quarter, you don't take contested 3-pointers early in the shot clock, but a 6th-year player doesn't? Perhaps the smart coaches or GMs talked to Travis about this after the Orlando game we blew, in which case he either forgot or blew them off, or the smart coaches didn't say anything to him, which goes along with the rest of your "we're doing GREAT! We're a young team who's winning (except when we lose)!" mindsets. One thing I will say the "smart coaches" did right...after Travis single-handedly gave up a steal and layup to Pierce to bring the game to within one by pretending to be a PG (Though he didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express this morning), the smart coaches decided to have him take the ball out so he wouldn't have to be stuck in that position again.

I'm sure you want the team to do well, as do just about all of us in here. What is it that makes you unable to see (or able to ignore) poor play in 6th-year vets, and then come in with "Unless you say Travis is awesome (and I TOLD YOU SO), you're an overreacting Chicken Little?" Especially in the fourth quarter?! I mean, it's one thing to overlook a pass sailing through his hands out of bounds in the first half...things like that happen. Travels from time to time happen. Bonehead plays shouldn't happen.

And just to show it's not just Travis...anyone want to show me a stat or anecdote or subjective analysis or ANYTHING that shows Blake can run an effective 2-on-1 or 3-on-2 situation? Our rookie "not-really-a-PG" showed he can. He did great keeping us in the game by shooting the lights out in the first half.

PapaG, I'm just curious now (and not sarcastic anymore), do you just read the box scores to see if there was a good game, or do you look play-to-play and ignore the bad ones if there are some good ones?

 

[PapaG]

Wow so you base basketball IQ on if a player is in the game at the end of the 4th quarter? I cannot let myself read your posts anymore. Your making my IQ go down by reading your inane drivel. Join Mixim on my block list.

I'll gladly go on your block list. I understand how contrary viewpoints can be scary to deal with, causing fragile people to lash out, so I don't blame you for putting me on ignore when I don't validate your overly-negative opinion of Travis Outlaw.

 

[STOMP]

-From another thread - liking a team and player and being open to their retarded play are not mutually exclusive, no matter how cute the smiley running around in a circle is. Is there an "ostrich's head in the sand" smiley?

Tell me, STOMP and PapaG...since I'm obviously not as smart as NBA players on your favorite team, or coaches who play them, or GMs who sign them to short-term, relatively-bargain contracts with team options...how even I know that when you're up in the fourth quarter, you don't take contested 3-pointers early in the shot clock, but a 6th-year player doesn't? Perhaps the smart coaches or GMs talked to Travis about this after the Orlando game we blew, in which case he either forgot or blew them off, or the smart coaches didn't say anything to him, which goes along with the rest of your "we're doing GREAT! We're a young team who's winning (except when we lose)!" mindsets. One thing I will say the "smart coaches" did right...after Travis single-handedly gave up a steal and layup to Pierce to bring the game to within one by pretending to be a PG (Though he didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express this morning), the smart coaches decided to have him take the ball out so he wouldn't have to be stuck in that position again.

I'm sure you want the team to do well, as do just about all of us in here. What is it that makes you unable to see (or able to ignore) poor play in 6th-year vets, and then come in with "Unless you say Travis is awesome (and I TOLD YOU SO), you're an overreacting Chicken Little?" Especially in the fourth quarter?! I mean, it's one thing to overlook a pass sailing through his hands out of bounds in the first half...things like that happen. Travels from time to time happen. Bonehead plays shouldn't happen.

And just to show it's not just Travis...anyone want to show me a stat or anecdote or subjective analysis or ANYTHING that shows Blake can run an effective 2-on-1 or 3-on-2 situation? Our rookie "not-really-a-PG" showed he can. He did great keeping us in the game by shooting the lights out in the first half.

PapaG, I'm just curious now (and not sarcastic anymore), do you just read the box scores to see if there was a good game, or do you look play-to-play and ignore the bad ones if there are some good ones?

dude, mix in some periods.

Rather then taking the 45 questions you strung together individually, I'd point out that for the most part your post is a stream of strawman consciousness. I've sited Travis's positives and negatives in this thread and umpteen times before and yet you post this absolute nonsense about me ignoring the bad that comes with the good with Travis.

I disagree with your opinion that the Blazers should trade Greg for Kwame and I won't sign your petition to change the team colors to purple and pink. Unlike you I'm not for putting Shonz in a home, throwing away the key, and sliding bread and water under the door. I also hope you're dead wrong about the club being moved to WA as soon as Paul Allen can wriggle out of the RG's lease.

STOMP

 

[blue32]

Man, I can't stand Shonz.....

 

[BrianFromWA]

dude, mix in some periods.

I asked a lot of questions. Sorry.

Rather then taking the 45 questions you strung together individually, I'd point out that for the most part your post is a stream of strawman consciousness.

Sounds kind of like an easy way to say "can't answer them, so I'll ignore them by calling them a strawman". I'll make it easier, though.
1) How come I know not to shoot a contested 3pt shot with 20 seconds on the shot clock up by a small margin in the 4th quarter, but Travis doesn't?
2) How come he's done it twice in 2 weeks, against good teams?
3) How come good coaches much smarter than me haven't been able to teach him this in 6 years?
4) How come posters like PapaG (and it seemed you agree) think people like me who post observations of bad plays by our veterans (that in the past have cost us games) are Chicken Little posters?
5) Can anyone tell me why they think our 6th-year PG can run a 2-on-1 or 3-on-2 transition play? Because I can't remember seeing one in the recent past. It's like Jarrett Jack left his FastBreak skills in Steve's locker when he left.

I've sited Travis's positives and negatives in this thread and umpteen times before and yet you post this absolute nonsense about me ignoring the bad that comes with the good with Travis.

Sorry if that's what you took from that. My addition of your name into the post is b/c you agreed with PapaG about posters being if they had negative observations about Travis. I fully admit that you are generally open to both sides. But I wouldn't call the post "absolute nonsense" because of that. I don't know what the quote below is about, but it's kind of a funny way of posting an example of "absolute nonsense". However, if you're equating the quote below to my post above, then color me .

I disagree with your opinion that the Blazers should trade Greg for Kwame and I won't sign your petition to change the team colors to purple and pink. Unlike you I'm not for putting Shonz in a home, throwing away the key, and sliding bread and water under the door. I also hope you're dead wrong about the club being moved to WA as soon as Paul Allen can wriggle out of the RG's lease.

STOMP

 

[alex42083]

We would not have won last night's game without Travis' hustle plays. He's a high-risk, high-reward player. He'll make some obviously dumb mistakes but he had some key buckets down the stretch.
For the money we're paying him right now, you're not going to get a better player than Travis.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Outside of Roy, that can be said about every player on the roster. Odd that you and others consistently pound a bench player for being like every other player on the team outside of the All-Star.

The "main gripe", if that what it is, seems way out of scale with the number of negative threads here relative to other players on the roster.

Except Przybilla. Who (in addition to Blake and Outlaw) is the only player on this team with more than 5 years of league experience. Hence, "veterans". I personally add Roy to the list of "veteran" as well b/c he's an All-Star, though I respect if someone doesn't.

But of our "veteran core" of Blake, Outlaw, Przy and Roy; in order of consistency and lack of bonehead plays (a.k.a. "Rookie Mistakes", "WTF?!?! Moves", "I want to punch my TV! Moves", etc.) it's Przy, Roy, Blake farther behind and Travis barely on the scope.

There would be less negative threads about Travis if he made less of these type of plays. At least, IMHO that's the case. When Blake messes up, he gets threads about it. Frye's had many threads posted about his poor play. Why is it that Travis is exempt? B/c he actually has an abiliy to play like he did last night when he was making great plays? That seems to be even more of a strike against him, b/c all he has to do is keep his head in the game and be aggressive, which seems impossible for him to do consistently.

 

[STOMP]

I asked a lot of questions. Sorry. Sounds kind of like an easy way to say "can't answer them, so I'll ignore them by calling them a strawman".

sounds like you're still projecting what you want to hear. Why you'd think anyone would want to go through a long sarcastic list denying things they didn't say is puzzling.

I'll make it easier, though. 1) How come I know not to shoot a contested 3pt shot with 20 seconds on the shot clock up by a small margin in the 4th quarter, but Travis doesn't?
2) How come he's done it twice in 2 weeks, against good teams?
3) How come good coaches much smarter than me haven't been able to teach him this in 6 years?

Of course you don't really know what the coaches are telling him do you? Are they saying that he should shoot it when he feels it (especially when Brandon is out) or are they saying to milk the clock? His ability to rise up makes contested shots uncontested. It seems to me if he is consistently going against his coaches wishes as you are saying, the coach would bench him. Several times last night in the 4th he shot with a lot of time left on the clock... he missed a few of them but he also made a few more. I'm guessing he had the green light from Nate to shoot when he felt it and I happened to like the results.

btw... you know when you were blaming him for trying to dribble it up vs Pierce? Why were both Blazer guards over half court and not back supporting him? I wouldn't want any of the Blazers forwards trying to dribble it up vs. PP. Smart coaches know that bringing the ball up should be done by good ballhandlers which Travis is not, but Travis is smart enough to know the ball has to cross halfcourt in time. Even the bright bulb Blazer announcers commented on this.

STOMP

 

[Ed O]

Outlaw had a pretty good game last night, but man he seems to make more boneheaded plays than the rest of the team combined.

My answer, though? Yes, he's definitely worth it.

Ed O.

 

[craigehlo]

TO is "worth it" since we don't really have a viable alternative currently. Our offense is still fairly anemic outside Roy and LMA these days, so we have to take our points wherever we can get them.

Personally, I'd like to see a team that doesn't need Blake going bananas from the 3-point line and Outlaw forcing jumpshots for us to have a chance to win.

 

[MAS RipCity]

LMAO @ this thread. Travis is a BENCH player..not a starter, and it seems like many expect him to play like he's our 2nd or 3rd best player. His role is to come in and score the ball and rebound, which he does fine. Does he take bad shots sometimes? Yes, but he ALWAYS seems to make up for it with a block, steal, or taking a charge. And yes, Trav is WAY worth it..open your eyes people and quit the freaking scapegoating, it is getting OLD and ANNOYING!

 

[BrianFromWA]

sounds like you're still projecting what you want to hear. Why you'd think anyone would want to go through a long sarcastic list denying things they didn't say is puzzling.

But you did answer the questions (below: Thanks btw.) If you would've said something like "it seems sarcastic and I didn't say those things", then no worries. But you said it was a strawman and you didn't want to answer the "45 questions". Once I put it in 1/2/3/4/5 format, you did. Again, no worries, you can respond to anything you want (and I won't report you to the FBI), but I took exception that you were kind of blowing it off by calling it strawman. That's all.

Of course you don't really know what the coaches are telling him do you?

Nope, only what I hear on the mikes from the timeout, which wasn't much last night.

Are they saying that he should shoot it when he feels it (especially when Brandon is out) or are they saying to milk the clock?

Is there any coach in the NBA (or analyst) who says take poorly-selected shots early in the shot clock when you're up in the 4th quarter?

His ability to rise up makes contested shots uncontested.

Personally and subjectively I think that's a fallacy. He's been blocked multiple times this year on that "unblockable, uncontestable" jumper. And just because you rise up doesn't mean you don't have a hand in your face. If it's open, that's one thing. There isn't really a reason to shoot that 2pointer I'm talking about with 4:31 left, other than in the Quick article this summer Travis said he falls in love with his jumper and takes it even when he knows he shouldn't.

It seems to me if he is consistently going against his coaches wishes as you are saying, the coach would bench him.

Another fallacy. In that same Quick article Travis talked about how Nate would pull him aside and say "That shot, Travis...that wasn't a good shot". But he doesn't seem to be able to understand that.

Several times last night in the 4th he shot with a lot of time left on the clock... he missed a few of them but he also made a few more. I'm guessing he had the green light from Nate to shoot when he felt it and I happened to like the results.

That makes us different. I don't think there's an excuse to make boneheaded plays. I loved when he was aggressive, attacking the basket, getting to the rim, getting offensive boards when we needed them. The only reason he doesn't do that all the time is his love for his jumper, his inability to think about game situations when deciding to take it. When he's aggressive around the rim I love it. When he's attacking and passing the ball he's a great weapon. When he's 1-6 on shots outside 18 feet, I'd rather him not be shooting contested shots early in the shot clock. And if the coaches are letting him, that seems to be a good place to blame the coach.

btw... you know when you were blaming him for trying to dribble it up vs Pierce? Why were both Blazer guards over half court and not back supporting him? I wouldn't want any of the Blazers forwards trying to dribble it up vs. PP. Smart coaches know that bringing the ball up should be done by good ballhandlers which Travis is not, but Travis is smart enough to know the ball has to cross halfcourt in time. Even the bright bulb Blazer announcers commented on this.

STOMP

I just went back to look at this...Blake's doubled by Garnett and House in the middle of the floor. Travis starts dribbling to the sideline. LMA's open on the other side of the court, but Rudy and Greg are not looking at the ball. Poor play, and not totally Travis's fault. But even if "Travis is smart enough to know the ball has to cross halfcourt in time" he didn't have to dribble upcourt along the sideline and give it up with 21 seconds left on the clock. But for the sake of cordiality, I'll grant you that that wasn't his fault.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Travis is worth it because we don't have to rely on him... if he was playing Roy minutes and putting up Roy numbers offensively, but still being Travis, I think the question should be asked. But as a 6th man? He's fine.

In a shortened rotation, he can play the 4; when Roy needs a breather on the court, he can make his own shot. He's a sparkplug guy. Ruben without the rape. Cliffy without the weed. He's there to be a bit wild and unpredictable, to make a difference off the bench. Did I scream like Braveheart when he turned the ball over at midcourt? Yep. But when he made that sick dunk (was he ever going to stop elevating?) all was forgiven. He giveth and taketh away, but usually there's more giveth-ing involved.

So yeah, he's worth it until Batum is seasoned.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I guess I haven't answered OP yet.

Yes, right now he's worth it for me to have on the team, and to play decent (~20-25) minutes. But the things I'm hearing scare me a little. "He's the only guy that can get a shot on his own except Roy". "He's able to take the shot with 2 seconds left with no conscience". Etc. With very few qualifications I'd agree with these. But is that the reason to keep Travis in at crunch time, where (charitably) he makes about as many mistakes that give up points as great plays that get them? In his own words he doesn't have the mindset to play control-ball like the Spurs, Pistons or Celtics do at the end of games. Or is it an excuse to change things to ensure our offense doesn't stagnate in crunch time to the point where we need an off-balance 22-foot 2point jumper from that guy?

I keep going back to this: Forget Nate for a second. Would Gregg Popovich allow Travis to keep taking those shots? Pat Riley? Phil Jackson? Any championship coach of the last 10-15 years? Maybe it's all Nate's fault for not teaching him how to play the right way. I'd go along with that. My hate isn't against Travis the person, it's against the Ineptitude That Comes When Travis Doesn't Think.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Yes, he is worth it. Specially for the money he is getting.

No, I wouldn't be sad if we traded him this off-season.

 

[bigbailes]

i'd like to see a little more kersey in his game and less clyde. by that i mean, make the hustle plays, get to the rim and finish. he did those things last night. yes he's a bonehead and is frustrating at times but right now we need him.

 

[Minstrel]

Outlaw is clearly worth it. The entire package makes him a solid player...if he cut out the mistakes and negative plays, he'd be well above average. But his negatives are already factored into him being "merely" a solid player.

His style may not make him an ideal starter for a championship contender, but as a reserve he's a pretty great luxury. Few teams have a scoring threat the caliber of Outlaw off the bench.

I would be perfectly fine with trading him, but on the basis that he's a useful, valuable player and should bring back good value. The implication that we should just try to dump him (almost like an addition-by-subtraction proposition) is frankly ridiculous, IMO.

 

[alex42083]

The implication that we should just try to dump him (almost like an addition-by-subtraction proposition) is frankly ridiculous, IMO.

Agreed. I think that's the feeling I get from fans who want Travis gone -- that we'd be much better just without him on the team.
He is what he is. Not a great ballhandler, will get caught napping defensively sometimes, but he's versatile, he can block shots, he can shoot the ball and actually has slowly.. slowly.. been developing an ability to drive the ball and finish. It's not great yet, but it's something you can tell he's worked on.
He's not throwing up wild shots every time when he gets in the lane, as we saw yesterday when he posterized KG for a key bucket.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Outlaw is worth it. For his negatives of poor shot selection at times, he has an uncanny ability to just get the ball in the basket. He gets those critical dunks and odd jump shots and just sometimes throws it in the hoop.

He should be the 8th or 9th man in the rotation but he can play multiple positions, and can score and sometimes play decent defense. I like him on the team and at his salary is a great deal.

 

[Nikolokolus]

For me it boils down to this: Is he a bigger positive than he is a negative? For the most part I'd say he does contribute more than he takes away, and until or unless we find another guy who can get his shot off no matter what, outside of Brandon, he provides a critical contribution for our bench.

 

[LameR]

Although he's improved his decision making, and is actually passing now, that string of plays in the second half re-solidified my opinion on him. Yes, he can be awesome at times, but he can absolutely destroy our team's chances of winning too. I think the series I'm thinking of were a foul, the ugly brick with a ton of time on the shot-clock, and when he dribbled it up court and basically left it there for Pierce. All mistakes that should not happen period, let alone someone playing as long as he has.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Maybe he should only play when we're down 6-10 points or in the clutch?

 

[julius]

LMAO @ this thread. Travis is a BENCH player..not a starter, and it seems like many expect him to play like he's our 2nd or 3rd best player. His role is to come in and score the ball and rebound, which he does fine. Does he take bad shots sometimes? Yes, but he ALWAYS seems to make up for it with a block, steal, or taking a charge. And yes, Trav is WAY worth it..open your eyes people and quit the freaking scapegoating, it is getting OLD and ANNOYING!

I'd say that the vitriol that Channing gets is far worse than that of what Travis gets (based on their roles, etc).

I think Travis is worth keeping, but if we can upgrade at the SF spot (either Webster, Batum or a trade), I say do it.

 

[STOMP]

But you did answer the questions (below: Thanks btw.) If you would've said something like "it seems sarcastic and I didn't say those things", then no worries. But you said it was a strawman and you didn't want to answer the "45 questions". Once I put it in 1/2/3/4/5 format, you did. Again, no worries, you can respond to anything you want (and I won't report you to the FBI), but I took exception that you were kind of blowing it off by calling it strawman.

thats what it was. You stated I held all sorts of opinions I never stated... BS is BS.

Nope, only what I hear on the mikes from the timeout, which wasn't much last night.Is there any coach in the NBA (or analyst) who says take poorly-selected shots early in the shot clock when you're up in the 4th quarter?

first you admit you know jack shit about what Nate or any coach is saying to their players then you turn around and act like you do. You don't.

Personally and subjectively I think that's a fallacy. He's been blocked multiple times this year on that "unblockable, uncontestable" jumper.

Quotes are used to bracket something someone said not stuff you pull out of your ass. This is getting really tired.

And just because you rise up doesn't mean you don't have a hand in your face. If it's open, that's one thing.

and if you're feeling your shot and coach has given you the green light to shoot when you're feeling it thats another. I've seen Travis hit contested shots and I've seen him miss wide open shots. I don't pretend to know (like you are doing) what Nate told him to do with Brandon out. I do know that I've seen Roy take the exact same sort of shot many times this year as the one you're bitching ad nausea about Travis taking.

There isn't really a reason to shoot that 2pointer I'm talking about with 4:31 left, other than in the Quick article this summer Travis said he falls in love with his jumper and takes it even when he knows he shouldn't.

nice theory, but of course I've provided another much more logical reason.

Another fallacy. In that same Quick article Travis talked about how Nate would pull him aside and say "That shot, Travis...that wasn't a good shot". But he doesn't seem to be able to understand that.

"another fallacy" could be the preface to all your guesses dressed up as fact

That makes us different. I don't think there's an excuse to make boneheaded plays. I loved when he was aggressive, attacking the basket, getting to the rim, getting offensive boards when we needed them. The only reason he doesn't do that all the time is his love for his jumper, his inability to think about game situations when deciding to take it. When he's aggressive around the rim I love it. When he's attacking and passing the ball he's a great weapon. When he's 1-6 on shots outside 18 feet, I'd rather him not be shooting contested shots early in the shot clock. And if the coaches are letting him, that seems to be a good place to blame the coach.

Obviously Nate did let him as evidenced by Travis being the go to guy and Nate not taking him out when he makes plays you've deemed boneheaded and opposite of your wild guesses of what Nate wants to see. Again, I liked that Travis was aggressively looking for his shot inside and out going 7-14... heck with the rest of the bench going 2-7, I think it would have been boneheaded of Nate to try to reel him in.

I just went back to look at this...Blake's doubled by Garnett and House in the middle of the floor. Travis starts dribbling to the sideline. LMA's open on the other side of the court, but Rudy and Greg are not looking at the ball. Poor play, and not totally Travis's fault. But even if "Travis is smart enough to know the ball has to cross halfcourt in time" he didn't have to dribble upcourt along the sideline and give it up with 21 seconds left on the clock. But for the sake of cordiality, I'll grant you that that wasn't his fault.

how gracious of you. Dude had a single turnover in 31 minutes and you're going to let it slide. He had the highest +/- on the club helping them to a victory over the champs while missing their best player. He made some mistakes on both ends of the court, but he also made plays, guarded a variety of Celts pretty well, and hustled throughout. It's amazing to me that after this thrilling victory any Blazer fan is looking for reasons to bitch about one of the main guys who got it done... thats what makes us different

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

how gracious of you. Dude had a single turnover in 31 minutes and you're going to let it slide. He had the highest +/- on the club helping them to a victory over the champs while missing their best player. He made some mistakes on both ends of the court, but he also made plays, guarded a variety of Celts pretty well, and hustled throughout. It's amazing to me that after this thrilling victory any Blazer fan is looking for reasons to bitch about one of the main guys who got it done... thats what makes us different

I guess I'm amazing, then. What makes us different is that you just attempt to pick apart an entire post to attempt to show that I'm "bitch[ing] about one of the main guys who got us done." My hero-worship of Travis does not extend as far as yours does, if you cannot fathom that someone might not like how he plays the game, in the specific instances I pointed out. My answer to the OP question was "yes", and yet you still seem "amazed" when someone dares to post (using quotations, stats and observations) things that your gut feeling and man-love doesn't jive with. I've said in multiple posts in this thread that I enjoyed the win, and for the most part how he played. What I won't just let slide is the notion that he played well and consistently. He didn't, I posted why, and you seem not to be able to refute it without saying words like "strawman", "stated I held all sorts of opinions I never stated" (Post 54, para 1) Meanwhile, you use those super-scientific things like

made plays, guarded a variety of Celts pretty well, and hustled throughout

as your justification for why I shouldn't "bitch" about it.

If we're talking about keeping actual quotes in quotations and playing Strawman Police, this is a ridiculous comment:

I do know that I've seen Roy take the exact same sort of shot many times this year as the one you're bitching ad nausea about Travis taking.

There's a small difference that you're not bringing up. Travis is 55-165 (34%) on shots between 12 and 23'9 (Caveat: I had to pull from NBA.com and 82games.com to cobble this stat together, so I could be off on my math, but I don't think so) while Roy is 115-262 (44%) at the same range. That's kind of a big difference.

When I use quotes, it's a generally a direct quote. You seem unable to show that anything I said is "pulled out of [my] ass". If it's tiring losing debate/discussions/arguments, I'd suggest picking arguments with people you won't lose to. It seems that would be easier.

Now let's get down to your "much more logical reasons".

1-6 on shots outside 18 feet (and 3-10 on non-dunks) doesn't seem to be the place that shows you're "feeling your shot" (Post 54, para 4). It seems to me (in a subjective observation-guess way) that Travis isn't playing a whole lot differently than last year in his shot selection in the 4th quarter, except that some of the 22-foot 2's he shot last year are becoming 3's. But Travis says he didn't have the Green Light last year:

- and disputes the notion that he had the green light with the Blazers.

"Noooo. Noooo," Outlaw says about the green light, prompting his imitation of Blazers coach Nate McMillan. "'Now Travis, that shot, you can get something better than that.'
John, his brother, agrees with McMillan's theory, that Outlaw could drive more and get more dunks or free throw attempts instead of settling for the jumper. But Outlaw doesn't want to hear any of it."

Perhaps Travis has turned over a new leaf. Perhaps in the last 6 months he's reversed course and actually playing like his coach told him to. It'd be nice, right? But let's look at history, shall we? Travis takes 86% of his shots outside of 12 feet. Roy takes 66% of his shots outside 12. That, combined with his own quotes from the Quick article, tell me that not only does he probably not have the Green Light, but that Nate has a history of not pulling him for still chucking from last year, and isn't doing it this year. Sorry if that doesn't jive with what you want to hear. Saying this is a strawman may relieve you of being able to acknowledge it. And BTW...our opponents shoot 65% of their shots from outside 12.

heck with the rest of the bench going 2-7, I think it would have been boneheaded of Nate to try to reel him in.

We disagree here. Obviously this is a style point, but my contention is that Travis wasn't shooting well from outside (if you made the argument about Blake, I'd probably concede that since he was having a great shooting night. Travis wasn't close) and kept firing from outside. On non-dunks he was 3-10. Not much different than what you're saying Nate was boneheaded for going away from. And the shot wasn't one of his clock-running-out-making-my-own-shot specials. It was with a lot of time left on the clock. I'm not inside of his head, but from his quotes and history my feeling is that he wanted his "wet" jumper to go through the net, rather than having a good team possession. He wanted to be like Carmelo Anthony. And when he does, Nate doesn't pull him. Nothing I've seen, heard, heard reported has shown me that he thinks otherwise. Obviously, I'd like to see it if it exists.

Travis has good plays and bad plays. He is wildly inconsistent for a 6th-year vet getting 27 mpg and a lot of 4th-quarter minutes. Using the +/- stat that you brought up (in a "whole season" rather that "one game sample size" mode) he's negative. For each game that you say he "guarded a variety of Celts pretty well" I'll anecdotally as well say that he got torched by Mike Miller, MacGrady, Rashard Lewis, Hedo Turkoglu, etc. b/c he can't seem to remember his man might move. Anecdotally you can say it's a wash. But when he's on the floor, we're -6 over the course of the season. When he's not, we're +132. And keep in mind, he plays more than half the time. You seem to not like that I can use all of the factoids, stats, quotes and observations to "bitch" about his play, whether the team wins or loses. I just choose to point out things that in the ecstasy of the win most won't. If that bothers you, ignore me.

 

[BlayZa]

at what we're paying him, yeah - he's absolutely worth it. he does make some bad decisions but he isnt a starter and is in there to make things happen - its just part of the package....

 

[drexlersdad]

if travis didnt make boneheaded plays and turnovers and such he would be a damn all star. as is he is a nice scoring option off the bench. i dont see what the problem is.

 

[STOMP]

When I use quotes, it's a generally a direct quote. You seem unable to show that anything I said is "pulled out of [my] ass". If it's tiring losing debate/discussions/arguments, I'd suggest picking arguments with people you won't lose to. It seems that would be easier.

good grief you have so many comprehension problems your post is just a jumbled mess. My complaints about your use of quotes around "unblockable, uncontestable" is because no one (let alone I) said or implied what you quoted. It's just you being full of shit.

and then you blast off into fantasy land that I shouldn't be picking arguments with people I lose to and continue attributing all sorts of ridiculous views to me

whatever dude...

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

STOMP, I respect your opinions and generally agree with what you post, but I don't know what's happened over the course of this thread to you.

If you'd like, I'll spend a bunch of time writing out specific responses to specific claims you make, and quote them post and paragraph like I did in my last post. If you're going to claim "Fantasy Land" and "Whatever dude..." and "full of shit", it's not worth either of our times.

You seem overly sensitive about the views you've taken in trying to call me out for Travis bitching. When they're tossed back at you with quotes, factoids, stats, observations, etc. rather than the anecdotal stuff you may be used to dealing with from others, it seems that you turn into someone who's lazily saying "your post is a jumbled mess" and "you have comprehension problems". That seems to me to be close to the "no attacking other posters" line this site tries to maintain.

Are we going to talk about you and me, or about Travis? I'd rather do the latter.

 

[STOMP]

STOMP, I respect your opinions and generally agree with what you post, but I don't know what's happened over the course of this thread to you.

If you'd like, I'll spend a bunch of time writing out specific responses to specific claims you make, and quote them post and paragraph like I did in my last post. If you're going to claim "Fantasy Land" and "Whatever dude..." and "full of shit", it's not worth either of our times.

You seem overly sensitive about the views you've taken in trying to call me out for Travis bitching. When they're tossed back at you with quotes, factoids, stats, observations, etc. rather than the anecdotal stuff you may be used to dealing with from others, it seems that you turn into someone who's lazily saying "your post is a jumbled mess" and "you have comprehension problems". That seems to me to be close to the "no attacking other posters" line this site tries to maintain.

Are we going to talk about you and me, or about Travis? I'd rather do the latter.

how disingenuous... completely consistent as well

piss off

STOMP