Is Simons really just Jake Layman?

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julius said:
Yeah, he's averaging 1.8 more per 36, 4 assists more per 36 (since Simons isn't playing the PG spot, not a fair comparison) and .8 more rebounds per 36.

And the bulk of Brunsons shots are 2 pt fg's (almost 70% of his shots) vs 58%.

Brunson has scored above his average about the same amount of times Simons has. They both have 28 games where they scored under 7 points, including 5 games for Jalen where he had a goose egg (vs 1 for Simons).

Simons has scored 4 points or less, 12 times this year. Brunson? 21 games.

Yes, Simons shoots worse, but let's not act like Brunson is having an awesome season and Simons is crap.
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Given that their raw stats are supposedly relatively close, the difference on the advance stats between those two is astounding.

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Next season is another year and these stats you are all posting won't mean shit. Not sure how long it will take Simons to be ready, but unless his work ethic is pathetic, he will eventually be a solid player.
 
It's unfortunate, but if he keeps this up he'll be playing in Lebanon or China in a few years.
 
Blazers Roy said:
It's unfortunate, but if he keeps this up he'll be playing in Lebanon or China in a few years.
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yeah, cause there's no place for a guard who averaged 9 points a game in what amounts to his rookie year and is incredibly athletic, smart and has tons of tools. Guys lucky to be in the league!
 
hoopsjock said:
I think with Simons you can see the tools there to one day be an elite scorer in this league. He can shoot the 3 (yeah, obviously hasn't been great this year), can pull up in the midrange (again, not great this year), and has the athleticism to someday be an excellent finisher around the rim. The youth thing is a valid excuse for me because he seems to be at such a disadvantage physically compared to most other NBA players. It may never get this way, but if that gap closes and he becomes more physically imposing I think his game would take off.
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HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT? The stats do not back it up, stats are the end all be all of talent evaluation. Does Not Compute. 1010101010101010. Mrrrrrrrrrr
 
HailBlazers said:
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT? The stats do not back it up, stats are the end all be all of talent evaluation. Does not compute. 1010101010101010. Mrrrrrrrrrr
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I think those who do feel that way, are confusing "tools" with "will be".

he has the tools to be an elite scorer. He's athletic, quick, and has a quick and decent shot. It's not like he's going out there playing like Steve Blake or Earl Watson.
 
I still say like I did at the start of the season, while Simons flashed potential here and there its alright to wait and see where he goes with it.
Ive been dissapointed with his growth through the season, but who knows, I hope this was a good development year for him.
 
HailBlazers said:
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT? The stats do not back it up, stats are the end all be all of talent evaluation. Does Not Compute. 1010101010101010. Mrrrrrrrrrr
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I like how much you like him. I felt that way about Skal.

That being said, he fails my infallible eye test AND the oft-referenced stat test (for example, http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/fo...-one-of-the-worst-seasons-of-all-time.354691/). But we'll never agree on this.

How about this: Simons or even the pick that got him is just another indication that there isn't enough urgency surrounding Dame's prime. I'd say, the last thing we need is another little isolating guard. And I find the thought of watching Simons playing crunch for the next however many years, a wee bit soul crushing...
 
hoopsjock said:
I think with Simons you can see the tools there to one day be an elite scorer in this league. He can shoot the 3 (yeah, obviously hasn't been great this year), can pull up in the midrange (again, not great this year), and has the athleticism to someday be an excellent finisher around the rim. The youth thing is a valid excuse for me because he seems to be at such a disadvantage physically compared to most other NBA players. It may never get this way, but if that gap closes and he becomes more physically imposing I think his game would take off.
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I was always really tough on Will Barton. He obviously has proved me wrong to a point. I still think he makes some bad decisions but he has become a very good player. Any more i have a tendency to be a little more wait and see?
 
Blazers Roy said:
It's unfortunate, but if he keeps this up he'll be playing in Lebanon or China in a few years.
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That is true. But do you really think that will be the case? How many people on this board think he will fail? I am sure this thread will reappear in a year or two. Let's all make our prediction now so we can mock one another for being so stupid.

My opinion is Simons will have a long career in the NBA. (Unless of course, he has a horrible injury)
 
I think he'll be a decent to above average pro, who will peak at about 19 ppg and 4-5 assists.

His struggles next year won't be nearly as bad as they were this year, and this years weren't nearly as bad as last years. People will act like they never said any of this, and someone will sardonically say he was "untouchable".

He just needs to work on his frame/build. He's still very skinny for the NBA.
 
I don't think he'll ever be very good. My success rate on predictions has been a mixed bag, but generally better when I go by the stats and project from there than when I try to "scout."
 
julius said:
I think he'll be a decent to above average pro, who will peak at about 19 ppg and 4-5 assists.
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only 28 players hit those marks right now. That's only about 6% of the league. Seems like pretty lofty goals for a guy averaging 9 & 1.5
 
Simons will be a starter someday. He plays a multi-dimensional PG game, while SG Trent is being coached to just-shoot-and-steal. It's no surprise that Trent can already perform his simple role, while Simons is still learning.
 
The hostility of the pro-Simons fans is a little disturbing. Outside of that Sac-Town game last season, what has he done to draw this sort of emotional investment?
 
jlprk said:
Simons will be a starter someday. He plays a multi-dimensional PG game, while SG Trent is being coached to just-shoot-and-steal. It's no surprise that Trent can already perform his simple role, while Simons is still learning.
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Lord have mercy. Gary is revelation! Defense, offense, the ole je ne sais quoi.

Simons? Simons says NOT a point guard. Simons says shoot. Simons says no defense.

You'll say but he's a whole six months younger than Gary! Wait until six months from now! Simons says no.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Outside of that Sac-Town game last season, what has he done to draw this sort of emotional investment?
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Nothing, but the potential he shows is obvious. He's a smooth shooter, but thinks like a PG. He'd look much better at SG in his 2nd year, but he's learning the much harder position.

These people who keep talking about his stats are unable to see how a person thinks. They never tried LSD.
 
oldmangrouch said:
The hostility of the pro-Simons fans is a little disturbing. Outside of that Sac-Town game last season, what has he done to draw this sort of emotional investment?
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I think he's a specimen of sorts. So I say he loooks good. Will he be Good? Time will tell.
 
jlprk said:
Nothing, but the potential he shows is obvious. He's a smooth shooter, but thinks like a PG. He'd look much better at SG in his 2nd year, but he's learning the much harder position.

These people who keep talking about his stats are unable to see how a person thinks. They never tried LSD.
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I for sure have tried LSD. Just saying.
 
wizenheimer said:
only 28 players hit those marks right now. That's only about 6% of the league. Seems like pretty lofty goals for a guy averaging 9 & 1.5
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since his per 36's are about 15 and about 3 assists per game, it's not out of the question for it to be a possibility.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
That is true. But do you really think that will be the case? How many people on this board think he will fail? I am sure this thread will reappear in a year or two. Let's all make our prediction now so we can mock one another for being so stupid.

My opinion is Simons will have a long career in the NBA. (Unless of course, he has a horrible injury)
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Look, at the end of the day it's gambling. Who the hell knows if he can stay consistent or not?

What i do know is that he is one of the only guys in the league who can hit 3-4 3pointers in a row - that makes him unique, but the chances he will get to show his worth will diminish if he'll remain inconsistent.

Off the top of my head, Jordan McRae is an example of a player who is also very talented yet had difficulty being consistent in the league. He's still a great player compared to regular scrubs, but lack of consistency sets him apart from regular role guys and starters in this league.
 
julius said:
since his per 36's are about 15 and about 3 assists per game, it's not out of the question for it to be a possibility.
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sure...it's possible (although 2.4 assists is closer to 2 than to 3). It's also possible he'll never average 36 minutes. Only 3 players do at this point. and just to hit 30 he'd have to be a starter. Unless Olshey is fired (hopefully) and CJ is traded (preferably), Simons won't be replacing Dame or CJ in the starting lineup any time soon. Trent has a better chance than Simons for being a CJ replacement

by the way, Swanigan has a higher assist/36 and assist rate than Simons. So did Skal
 
julius said:
yeah, cause there's no place for a guard who averaged 9 points a game in what amounts to his rookie year and is incredibly athletic, smart and has tons of tools. Guys lucky to be in the league!
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Tony Wroten averaged 17 points a game when he was 21 and was out of the league by the time he was 22.

I'm a Simons fan, i want him to do well, but he had meh numbers on a bad team this year. There are 60+ players entering the league each year and guys who aren't specialist role players,consistent scorers or great defenders tend have a rough time getting more and more chances as time goes by.
 
wizenheimer said:
sure...it's possible (although 2.4 assists is closer to 2 than to 3). It's also possible he'll never average 36 minutes. Only 3 players do at this point. and just to hit 30 he'd have to be a starter. Unless Olshey is fired (hopefully) and CJ is traded (preferably), Simons won't be replacing Dame or CJ in the starting lineup any time soon. Trent has a better chance than Simons for being a CJ replacement

by the way, Swanigan has a higher assist/36 and assist rate than Simons. So did Skal
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not sure where I got 2.6. Im guessing the steals per 36 (.6) must've been the culprit.
 
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