Is Simons really just Jake Layman?

[julius]

Tony Wroten averaged 17 points a game when he was 21 and was out of the league by the time he was 22.

I'm a Simons fan, i want him to do well, but he had meh numbers on a bad team this year. There are 60+ players entering the league each year and guys who aren't specialist role players,consistent scorers or great defenders tend have a rough time getting more and more chances as time goes by.

well then I hope Anfernee doesn't tear his ACL. Twice in 5 years. Because that's a big part of why Tony is out of the league.

And throw in that Tony was a subpar three point shooter, and got waived because of disciplinary reasons too, and you have a bad mix.

 

[twobullz]

I think he is more a James Hollywood Robinson. He is a off guard who is too short, but doesn't have the instincts to be a PG. How many times a game does he get in a bad situation which leads to bad turnovers.

 

[HailBlazers]

I thought the drug of choice around here wa soccer mom PMS!

Then the last thing you want to do is say the kid is ugly!

 

[Binx]

I think he is more a James Hollywood Robinson. He is a off guard who is too short, but doesn't have the instincts to be a PG. How many times a game does he get in a bad situation which leads to bad turnovers.

Yeah, that about sums it up. I’m just hoping he’s working his way through a steep learning curve and will soon figure it out.

 

[Binx]

My opinion is Simons will have a long career in the NBA. (Unless of course, he has a horrible injury)

Anthony Tolliver has had a long career in the NBA. So did Chris Dudley. I was hoping for a little more from Simons.

 

[AldoTrapani]

No comment

 

[Pinwheel1]

Anthony Tolliver has had a long career in the NBA. So did Chris Dudley. I was hoping for a little more from Simons.

You act like you already know how his career will go. I know I have no clue, and I most certainly know you don't.

 

[Freshtown]

Looks like it!

 

[HailBlazers]

Looks like it!

Link?

 

[GDiama]

He needs to give us at least 12 points and 3-4 assists right? Nothing special the numbers i mentioned but just show something.

 

[BonesJones]

Looks like it!

.....?

 

[tykendo]

I don't think so. It looks like Ant is starting to turn the corner, and ready to be a key contributor this year. His shot is becoming more reliable in clutch situations, and he's becoming more aggressive driving to the hoop. I do think he's got to drive & dunk more with those hops. He still defers to a harder layin attempt, for whatever reason, than throwing it down. THAT! must change. But his time is now, to show his teammates & coaches, "I got you".

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

That makes you the 2nd-smartest person on this board.

You have potential, but now you have to accumulate years of stats.

Now, wait a minute here; didn't you say once that I was the second smartest???!!! Maybe you didn't know that once when I was young and unaware. I accidentally ingested mescaline, psilocybin and LSD in the same evening (didn't realize that all the wine bottles being passed around were spiked).

 

[GDiama]

I don't think so. It looks like Ant is starting to turn the corner, and ready to be a key contributor this year. His shot is becoming more reliable in clutch situations, and he's becoming more aggressive driving to the hoop. I do think he's got to drive & dunk more with those hops. He still defers to a harder layin attempt, for whatever reason, than throwing it down. THAT! must change. But his time is now, to show his teammates & coaches, "I got you".

In his 4th year now there is 0 excuse to not be better and do the things that you mentioned.

 

[jlprk]

Now, wait a minute here; didn't you say once that I was the second smartest???!!! Maybe you didn't know that once when I was young and unaware. I accidentally ingested mescaline, psilocybin and LSD in the same evening (didn't realize that all the wine bottles being passed around were spiked).

LSD and I are remembered, but not forgotten! Or something like that.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

He needs to give us at least 12 points and 3-4 assists right? Nothing special the numbers i mentioned but just show something.

In order to do that he would have to average 10-12 shots a game. If he averaged that many shots you would all call him a black hole if you compare his minutes played. Then if he averaged that many shots how do you expect his assists to go from 1.5 to 3-4 when he is playing with the second unit?
I understand you want more from him. I'm also certain he wants to do a bunch more. He is a backup and is being asked to play his role. Try to be reasonable in your expectations of him. He shoots 38% from 3. Yes his overall FG% could improve and his court presence could get better. These are the things i would like to see.

 

[GDiama]

In order to do that he would have to average 10-12 shots a game. If he averaged that many shots you would all call him a black hole if you compare his minutes played. Then if he averaged that many shots how do you expect his assists to go from 1.5 to 3-4 when he is playing with the second unit?
I understand you want more from him. I'm also certain he wants to do a bunch more. He is a backup and is being asked to play his role. Try to be reasonable in your expectations of him. He shoots 38% from 3. Yes his overall FG% could improve and his court presence could get better. These are the things i would like to see.

He needs to be able to play 25 minutes if we again use Powell mostly at SF. So far he didn't play that much because he wasn't good enough, but he needs to be good enough to support that. CJ being the backup PG has been basically necessary because Simons was incapable of creating anything for others or for himself. Right now he is just holding a spot. Is there any point to keep him over a minimum veteran when he becomes a RFA if he remains the same player? It has been purely an upside play keeping him so far but now is time the bell is ringing and he needs to go to next level and with his improvement he will "demand" more touches.

Yes 12 and 3-4 might be overly ambitious. But i would like to see 10 and 3 from him with 25 minutes similar to what Monte Morris is giving to Denver. If he was good enough defender it would be fine even with lower numbers, but since he is terrible on that end i m trying to find a silver lining really.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

He needs to be able to play 25 minutes if we again use Powell mostly at SF. So far he didn't play that much because he wasn't good enough, but he needs to be good enough to support that. CJ being the backup PG has been basically necessary because Simons was incapable of creating anything for others or for himself. Right now he is just holding a spot. Is there any point to keep him over a minimum veteran when he becomes a RFA if he remains the same player? It has been purely an upside play keeping him so far but now is time the bell is ringing and he needs to go to next level and with his improvement he will "demand" more touches.

Yes 12 and 3-4 might be overly ambitious. But i would like to see 10 and 3 from him with 25 minutes similar to what Monte Morris is giving to Denver. If he was good enough defender it would be fine even with lower numbers, but since he is terrible on that end i m trying to find a silver lining really.

He’s not Terrible on the defensive end. He was playing with a PF and. Center last year that were pretty bad defensively. Defense is the team portion of the game.

 

[riverman]

Ant's ceiling to me is to be a Will Barton type guy...if he gets regular rotation minutes he'll help your team

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ant's ceiling to me is to be a Will Barton type guy...if he gets regular rotation minutes he'll help your team

If ant and nas pop and we stay healthy, i think we are top 3 in the west.

 

[beast blazer]

Bayless. His first start in place of an injured Roy he looked great. In fact, it may have been the best game of his Blazer tenure.

I thought bayless was good and needed more pt. Then rich cho comes along and gets rid of him as his first order of business.

 

[Paine Tablet]

In Layman’s first game he went crazy and scored 17 points in less than 5 minutes. That was it. The best we would ever get from him.

In Simon’s first game, he went for 37 points and 9 assists. That, it seems, was it. Haven’t really seen much from him since then.

Hope I’m wrong, but Simons has been a big disappointment this year. Right now, when we could really use some help at the guard position, he’s giving us very little.

It feels like Jake Layman all over again.

That's funny because never felt like Layman was nothing. I was always felt like he played above his draft slot and wasn't utilized by Stotts, case in point, the quadruple-OT game against Denver that would've likely been won in two overtimes if Stotts had brought in some energy.

Speaking of bringing in energy, here is an excerpt from an article about the game:


"After not seeing any minutes in the first three overtime periods, Hood was called on after the Blazers missed six of their first seven shots.

With players logging monster minutes, Hood put his fresh legs to good use, providing a seven-point burst in the final two minutes of the game. He finished with a playoff career-high 19 points in 23 minutes off the bench on 6-of-8 shooting."

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Skill set right now is very limited

strengths
good spot up 3 pt shooter
Super athletic (slam dunk champ)

weaknesses
Bad defensively (lateral movement seems slow)
Always seems to be step behind or chasing his man.
For as athletic as he is he doesn’t get many steals, is rarely on a break away for dunks (might be because of our defense)
Rarely drives to basket (this is my biggest concern for him offensively) a kid that athletic should be getting baskets at the rim. While this is my biggest concern it’s the one area I could see him improving since he’s young and playing a little scared he will mature

He’s gifted, my concern is he’s played enough that we should have seen a few more breakout games. If they are great players you usually see more glimpses of greatness. Also guys who are great believe in themselves and don’t shy away from things like driving to the basket.

 

[Paine Tablet]

Skill set right now is very limited

strengths
good spot up 3 pt shooter
Super athletic (slam dunk champ)

weaknesses
Bad defensively (lateral movement seems slow)
Always seems to be step behind or chasing his man.
For as athletic as he is he doesn’t get many steals, is rarely on a break away for dunks (might be because of our defense)
Rarely drives to basket (this is my biggest concern for him offensively) a kid that athletic should be getting baskets at the rim. While this is my biggest concern it’s the one area I could see him improving since he’s young and playing a little scared he will mature

He’s gifted, my concern is he’s played enough that we should have seen a few more breakout games. If they are great players you usually see more glimpses of greatness. Also guys who are great believe in themselves and don’t shy away from things like driving to the basket.

I have to say that I think a lot of it is system oriented because I saw a lot more flashes of greatness when he first entered the league. Him growing taller, getting stronger, becoming a better shooter should translate into more greatness, but in my eyes it hasn't because something in his head is playing to the system. The system as it were is C.J. and Dame as alphas and Ant as a subordinate neophyte. In a lot of ways this is to be expected because of Ant's youth, but the torch will have to pass at some point so that systemically Ant is allowed to be an alpha if he has the ability. Will that happen? It's not just Ant that has to be on board, but you are right in that he has to add necessary components to become great.

 

[dviss1]

Skill set right now is very limited

strengths
good spot up 3 pt shooter
Super athletic (slam dunk champ)

weaknesses
Bad defensively (lateral movement seems slow)
Always seems to be step behind or chasing his man.
For as athletic as he is he doesn’t get many steals, is rarely on a break away for dunks (might be because of our defense)
Rarely drives to basket (this is my biggest concern for him offensively) a kid that athletic should be getting baskets at the rim. While this is my biggest concern it’s the one area I could see him improving since he’s young and playing a little scared he will mature

He’s gifted, my concern is he’s played enough that we should have seen a few more breakout games. If they are great players you usually see more glimpses of greatness. Also guys who are great believe in themselves and don’t shy away from things like driving to the basket.

You're really selling the kid short calling him only spot up shooter who's athletic. Your analysis is pretty lacking...

Strengths:
He's capable of creating his own shot.
Deceptively quick (1st step is really quick)
He has good footwork. He's a very solid ball handler.
Has good offensive instincts by being in the right place at the right time.
Shows pick and roll potential with a good understanding of how to use on ball screens.

In your weaknesses you missed his biggest one, STRENGTH.
That's what most of his defensive deficiencies are caused by (lack of strength and COACHING)
That is also why he doesn't drive to the basket much. He needs to put on about 15 lbs of lean muscle.

 

[blazerkor]

I wish Ant had the confidence in himself that Olshey has in him. The guy gets lost on defense a lot and I think it's because he second guesses himself. He turns down open driving lanes on offense because he doesn't think it's his place. Maybe coach Billups can get in his ear and get him to try to do all of the things he should be doing. Then we can see if he even has these deficiencies. Right now there's assumptions about what he can't do but all I see is a guy who doesn't think he can so he isn't trying... not out of laziness but out of a lack of confidence. The only thing he has confidence in right now is his spot up jumper and that's working.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I wish Ant had the confidence in himself that Olshey has in him. The guy gets lost on defense a lot and I think it's because he second guesses himself. He turns down open driving lanes on offense because he doesn't think it's his place. Maybe coach Billups can get in his ear and get him to try to do all of the things he should be doing. Then we can see if he even has these deficiencies. Right now there's assumptions about what he can't do but all I see is a guy who doesn't think he can so he isn't trying... not out of laziness but out of a lack of confidence. The only thing he has confidence in right now is his spot up jumper and that's working.

wait though.

id like to point out that msot of us agree Stotts sucked at defense. Osnt it possible he was lsot because he had no direction?


Im thinking Ant is one going to be one of the biggest benefactors of the coaching change. Still young and impressionable and if he buys in, i think his defensive positioning will be vastly improved as the season goes on.
Im really excited about what Billups might be able to do with the kid.

 

[blazerkor]

wait though.

id like to point out that msot of us agree Stotts sucked at defense. Osnt it possible he was lsot because he had no direction?


Im thinking Ant is one going to be one of the biggest benefactors of the coaching change. Still young and impressionable and if he buys in, i think his defensive positioning will be vastly improved as the season goes on.
Im really excited about what Billups might be able to do with the kid.

100% Someone earlier was talking about how Ant lacked lateral mobility and I was pretty shocked. The only thing that has caused people to blow by him or get off wide open shots is his positioning so hopefully now that we have a coach that cares about defense we'll see Ant in the right places at the right times, so he can be more successful.

 

[e_blazer]

I just want to say that the thread title has “Simmons” misspelled and that it’s a bit harsh comparing Ben with Jake. Ben is a much better defender.

 

[dviss1]

turns down open driving lanes on offense because he doesn't think it's his place.

This is a ridiculous take. Sorry it just is. He's never been afraid to shoot the ball.

The kid needs strength. Plain and simple. Lower and upper body strength will make him a better finisher.

He gets bumped off his route to the rim because he needs to get stronger.