Is there a player worth trading Lillard for? (1 Viewer)

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You crazy LOL

He is right. I don't think Rubio is garbage like some others but he is certainly not the player of Lillard (and I am not even a Lillard homer). Rubio's advanced stats are really bad. MIN plays better without him.
 
Here is a list, which excludes obvious superstars (including Kyrie Irving) who wouldn't be a remote possibility. Some of these are pretty far-fetched, as it is.

1. Rubio (pre-injury, for sure, although I might want to wait a bit to see he's recovered)
Yeah, Rubio can't shoot. I don't care. He makes everyone better, and he also forces the coach to play a more attractive style to make best use of him.

2. Rondo.
He's going to wear down earlier than most, I'm sure, because of his breakneck style. But Boston would never trade him. However, he would make the Blazers must-watch-TV.

3. Stephen Curry.
Lillard is a good shooter. Curry is a GREAT shooter. Curry is also a better passer. Both are terrible defenders. Lillard will probably end up being a "poor man's Curry."

4. MKG
I don't care that he's going to be beaten handily by Lillard in the ROY voting - he's only 19 and he's a truly great all-round player.

5. Jrue Holliday
Lillard might also be known as "A smaller Holliday with worse defense."

6. James Harden
He's probably in the "obvious superstar" category at this point.

7. Anthony Davis
Of course NO wouldn't do this.

8. Marc Gasol
Best young center.

Now I look at this list, though, I can't imagine any of the other teams agreeing to the trade.

Rubio - No

Rondo - maybe, if he has his head on straight.

Steph Curry - I don't think I would, simply because I think Lillard is a way better point guard.

MKG - no, because we have Batum and I think Nic could be just as good, if not better.

Jrue - the defense thing is getting annoying because he's a rookie and he hasn't even played half of a season. Give the guy a break.

Harden - I don't think I'd trade a really good point guard for a really good shooting guard. I like Harden, but shooting guards are much easier to find.

Davis - yeah, I would probably do this trade, but having Aldridge makes Davis more of a luxury, while Lillard is a need.

Gasol - again, I don't think I would do it because we have some decent bigs. I like Gasol, but this league is built around wings and perimeter players. Having a Lillard is crucial.
 
He is right. I don't think Rubio is garbage like some others but he is certainly not the player of Lillard (and I am not even a Lillard homer). Rubio's advanced stats are really bad. MIN plays better without him.

Regardless, I highly, highly doubt they'd trade him for Lillard.
 
Disagree with this. I'd say the list of quality PGs is a lot deeper than the list of quality SGs.

Yep. Better than average SGs are really hard to find right now. One of the reasons why I try not to give Big Game a hard time because I could see POR move Batum to SG at some point and just get another SF. SF's are much easier to find.
 
NBA teams wait decades for a decent PG,

Just like buses - you wait decades and then 30 come along at once. Y'know, like:
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Tony Parker
Kyrie Irving
Deron Williams
Stephen Curry
Jrue Holiday
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
Mike Conley
Jeremy Lin
Goran Dragic
Ty Lawson
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight (who pwned Lillard in the Pistons game)
Brandon Jennings
Jeff Teague
 
He is right. I don't think Rubio is garbage like some others but he is certainly not the player of Lillard (and I am not even a Lillard homer). Rubio's advanced stats are really bad. MIN plays better without him.

Notice that I said "pre-injury". If you count +/- as an "advanced stat" (it's certainly an indication of how well the team plays with or without him) then your statement is obviously false.
 
Notice that I said "pre-injury". If you count +/- as an "advanced stat" (it's certainly an indication of how well the team plays with or without him) then your statement is obviously false.

These are the advanced stats I am speaking of. Lillard this year vs Rubio last year (since has has been injured and hasn't played much this year):
http://www.basketball-reference.com...1&y1=2013&p2=rubiori01&y2=2012#advanced::none

Win shares per 48 takes into account how a player helps his team.
 
As the most important job of the PG is getting the team to run well (rather than padding his own personal stats), please tell me which of those measures that?

I think you responded before my edit was in there. "Win shares per 48 takes into account how a player helps his team." 1.00 is an average player in the NBA. Last year Rubio was at .70
 
I think you responded before my edit was in there. "Win shares per 48 takes into account how a player helps his team." 1.00 is an average player in the NBA. Last year Rubio was at .70

How does that square with the fact that he led the Wolves by a substantial amount in +/-?
 
How does that square with the fact that he led the Wolves by a substantial amount in +/-?

Win Shares takes into account plus minus.

Plus minus is predicated on lineups. Starters typically have higher ones then bench players obviously as they play with other starters.

Straight from the NBA:
"The AutoTrader.com +/- stat shows the power of teamwork. It's a way of showing the best-engineered/best combination of players on the court. The +/- stat is a statistic that looks at the point differential when players are both in and out of the game, to see how the team performs with various combinations. The +/- stat can look at a variety of combinations including the best two player, three player and even five player combinations for each game."

A plus minus of 41 is not all that impressive. He lead his team but his team was not so good. Tony Parker has a plus minus of plus 421 last year!

I have never said Rubio is a bad player. We just disagree on his value. It happens. Probably won't be the last time that we don't side together.
 
A plus minus of 41 is not all that impressive. He lead his team but his team was not so good. Tony Parker has a plus minus of plus 421 last year!

It was 51. It's more impressive than 8, which is what Lillard has now. Granted, he has 400 minutes to catch up...

But of course, the true measure of +/- is relative to your teammates. And Rubio's was more than double the next runner up. Lillard is third on his own team.
 
I knew I'd take heat for KD thing, I think he is a really, really good scorer that is borderline unstoppable, but I'm not sold on him being the "second best" NBA player.

Won't bother responding to your myriad retorts to everyone questioning how you could justify not trading Lillard for Durant, but if Durant's not the second best player in the league then who is? Where do you rank Durant? Where do you rank Lillard?
 
Just like buses - you wait decades and then 30 come along at once. Y'know, like:
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Tony Parker
Kyrie Irving
Deron Williams
Stephen Curry
Jrue Holiday
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
Mike Conley
Jeremy Lin
Goran Dragic
Ty Lawson
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight (who pwned Lillard in the Pistons game)
Brandon Jennings
Jeff Teague

5 All-stars are on your list. Should we all just list players from every position? Putting Mike Conley or Ricky Rubio on any list with Chris Pail is hilarious. For example.
 
Just like buses - you wait decades and then 30 come along at once. Y'know, like:
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Tony Parker
Kyrie Irving
Deron Williams
Stephen Curry
Jrue Holiday
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Ricky Rubio
Mike Conley
Jeremy Lin
Goran Dragic
Ty Lawson
Eric Bledsoe
Brandon Knight (who pwned Lillard in the Pistons game)
Brandon Jennings
Jeff Teague

Ok, this list is pretty hilarious. Next you should list off every starting power forward in the NBA. Some of those guys aren't even close to the same level.
 
There are a lot more good PGs in today's league then there are SGs though.

Top 10 PGs in my mind (kind of in order but don't hold me to it):
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Stephen Curry
Jrue Holiday
Kyrie Irving
Gorgan Dragic

(Lillard just outside. Probably around 12th-14th and could move up at any moment of course)

Top 10 SGs in my mind:
Kobe Bryant
James Harden
Dwayne Wade
Manu Ginobili
Kevin Martin
O.J. Mayo
J.R. Smith
Ray Allen
Louis Williams
DeMar DeRozan

(Wesley Matthews around 14th-16th)

Drop off is huge at SG after the top 3 or 4.
 
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Disagree with this. I'd say the list of quality PGs is a lot deeper than the list of quality SGs.

Easily. There's only like 3 or 4 good shooting guards in the league.
 
5 All-stars are on your list. Should we all just list players from every position? Putting Mike Conley or Ricky Rubio on any list with Chris Pail is hilarious. For example.

You said you have to wait decades for a "decent" PG. So now you have to be an All Star to be "decent"?

Uhhhh okay....
 

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