Politics Is there cheating in elections?

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Is there cheating in elections?

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barfo said:
The only reason this is a topic of discussion is that Republicans have been lying about it.
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False. This goes back many years. It has occurred on both sides.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html


barfo said:
There's no evidence of widespread voter fraud.
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It doesn't matter if it is 'widespread' or not. There's enough data to show there is SOME voter fraud going on. That in and of itself should be enough for everyone to want to curb it.


barfo said:
Yes, that much would be an issue. The actual percentage is VASTLY less than that.
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How do you know that the voter fraud is <0.5% ?
The fact is - there is no way for you to know... .

barfo said:
Sure there is. If I go to the voting booth and pose as you, there's at least some chance that you'll show up, try to vote, and my fraud will be uncovered.
What is that chance? It's roughly the fraction of registered voters who actually vote. If, say 2 people are caught doing that, then we can extrapolate that there were maybe 4 or 5 total cases.
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I don't know of anyone really too concerned with the scenario you describe here. There are much easier ways for voter fraud that are much harder to detect.
Easiest way to cheat is to register to vote when you are not legally allowed to.... (or make up fictitious names and vote multiple times).


barfo said:
If you want people to trust the system, stop lying about voter fraud. It's that simple.
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Who is lying about voter fraud?
Answer me this -> Does SOME fraud occur?

If the answer is yes, then it ought to be corrected. Everyone SHOULD want fair and honest elections. That should not be a partisan issue.


barfo said:
Not truthfully, one couldn't. It's pretty obvious that if you require 170M people to bring ID to vote, thousands of them will either forget, or will have lost their ID, or whatever.
That number will be MUCH larger than the number of people who are voting pretending to be someone else.
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Yes, some people may forget their ID (or whatever). That's called personal responsibility. If someone wants to vote - they can make the effort to make sure they can be identified.

And again with the strawman argument - that people are trying to impersonate another registered voter.....

Hell - if you want to go full dystopian, we can start requiring a retinal scan before voting.... That way there would be no mistaking who is casting the vote. And guess what -> No one has to worry about carrying an ID!


barfo said:
Well, if you are talking about registering, rather than voting, that's a whole different - and less controversial - issue.
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Registering and voting are derivatives of the exact same issue/question.... " How do you ensure that elections are honest and fair?"
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
It doesn't matter if it is 'widespread' or not. There's enough data to show there is SOME voter fraud going on. That in and of itself should be enough for everyone to want to curb it.
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Response needs to be proportionate to the threat. There isn't any serious threat from a few fools trying to vote more than once.

How do you know that the voter fraud is <0.5% ?
The fact is - there is no way for you to know... .
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How do I know that lizard people don't control the pentagon and are eating small children?
The fact is - there is no way for me to know...

I don't know of anyone really too concerned with the scenario you describe here.
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Well, great! But I'm pretty sure the thrust of most 'Voter ID' laws involve showing ID at the polling place.

There are much easier ways for voter fraud that are much harder to detect.
Easiest way to cheat is to register to vote when you are not legally allowed to.... (or make up fictitious names and vote multiple times).
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Do you really think there's no way to detect fictitious voter registrations? I recommend you go ahead and try it if that's your belief.

Who is lying about voter fraud?
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For the last 30 or 40 years, the Republican party. And yes, Hillary groused about losing a bit.

Answer me this -> Does SOME fraud occur?
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Yes.

If the answer is yes, then it ought to be corrected. Everyone SHOULD want fair and honest elections. That should not be a partisan issue.
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There are systems in place to detect it, and penalties in place to punish it. It's not actually a problem in terms of election results.
If you think we should eliminate every instance, what about other crimes? Shouldn't we eliminate every instance of those too?
Maybe domestic violence. That happens a lot more often that voter fraud, wouldn't you agree?
How about we post a policeman in every house in America? Would that be a proportionate response?

Yes, some people may forget their ID (or whatever). That's called personal responsibility. If someone wants to vote - they can make the effort to make sure they can be identified.
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I thought you were saying in-person voting wasn't an issue. So it's fine to let them vote w/o ID, as long as they are properly registered.

barfo
 
MickZagger said:
Nice straw man.

Are you going to storm the capitol when your wannabe dictator loses again?
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What a stupid and predictable response. Painting me with the same brush you use to paint the relatively small number of fucking morons who rioted at a "mostly peaceful" protest. Straw man, indeed.
 
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BlazerWookee said:
What a stupid and predictable response. Painting me with the same brush you use to paint the relatively small number of fucking morons who rioted at a "mostly peaceful" protest. Look up the definition of "bigot." Straw man, indeed.
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So apparently you’re in the MAGA cult.

Now that you self identified yourself we can move past that.

There was nothing peaceful about it.

The fact that you’re up in arms shows that I’m hitting a chord and you know your little movement is full of racists that wish nobody but white people had a vote.

Keep filling your head with your little conspiracy theories, while the Democrats will keep winning elections.
 
CJ_is_Gone said:
Sorry - not a good enough reason.... As the saying goes -> 'Perception is reality'...

Inherent in your response is an admission that there is SOME voter fraud occurring. Everyone can argue how 'significant' of a problem it is, but who gets to decide when it becomes a problem? If there is 0.5% voter fraud, is that an issue? How about if there is 5%? Right now there is no way to even track/verify how widespread the issue is.

The amount of voter fraud that is occurring is a secondary issue (albeit still very important). Being able to trust in the process is paramount.

Just think of how much time / money / energy was wasted with Clinton claiming fraud in 2016 and Trump in 2020.....



To use your same argument, one could say "this is largely a made-up problem.' :lol:

Admittedly this is a concern, but it is much easier to remedy. Ultimately I think that is a responsibility of the individual to figure out if they want to participate in society. You have to prove who you are to drive, board a plane, open a bank account, and a host of other activities. Many states DO require ID to register to vote, and it doesn't seem to be a problem....

This appears to be a red herring argument. However, these fringe cases are not worth creating doubt in the integrity of elections overall.


I absolutely HATE this type of ideological garbage - in ascribing nefarious motive behind people's comments.... I get that it's part of human nature and part of tribalism. Both democrats and republicans do this frequently. I would love for us humans to advance beyond this type of garbage.
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I already posted this but the very conservative Heritage Foundation has looked into this. I went with a conservative source on this so it would have a greater chance of being accepted. Do you have a credible source with different numbers than this?

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Chris Craig said:
He never said racism was ok. He in fact is saying the opposite.

MAGA, prominently white men would have it go back to only white men voting if they had the power to do so. I have seen tweets about repealing the 19th amendment allowing women to vote. They are already trying to take away women's rights.

They are against anyone who looks foreign. There are videos all the time of far right people telling them to go back to their own country, even when they were born here.

A portion of MAGA is neo Nazis like it or not. They are against people of color and Jewish people.

We hear Trump espouse all of this all of the time in his speeches. We hear the people he invites to speak at his events say these things.

And, Mick and I are both saying this as white men, because that is some fucked up shit and we will be damned if we stay quiet about it.
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Suppressing voting blocks has been a campaign strategy for the Republican Party going on several elections now.

Gee, I wonder why
 
Haakzilla said:
Hypocrisy you say? There is mountains of evidence regarding Russia's influence in 2016, 2020, and now in 2024. Start here >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

You hang your hat on this "debunked" aspect of Russiagate being that they didn't indict for collusion -- but that does not absolve Russia from the hacking, never-ending conspiracy influence and nonstop efforts to spew propaganda thru the West. Some would even argue that nearly all of the talking points & "facts" you love to wax poetic about are actually directly propagated by the Kremlin -- none of which are based in reality it seems. And all of which are harmful to America(ns)...is this what they call the Faux Patriot nowadays? :dunno:

Trump did a lot more than simply question the results of the election -- at every single turn it was proven over and over that all claims were and still are baseless. Both of you have refused to accept this. Instead, we have delusions of grandeur and illegitimate concerns about free and fair elections. All of this is detrimental to democracy. You know, like coming up with and executing fake elector schemes to maintain power?

There is only one side here -- the right side of history!!
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This is one of the only places left online where Russiagate still gets any traction lol. The rest of the leftist sphere quietly and embarrassingly swept it under the rug long ago. Steele dossier fake, payed for by American democrats. Pee tape fake. Troll farm claims greatly exaggerated and on par with other click farms around the world. Mueller investigation unable to cite a single instance of subversion and uncovered exactly nothing. The whole thing was fake. Your McCarthyist cold war nonsense demanding conflicts with other nations is what’s on the wrong side of history. A million dead Ukrainian and Russian kids is your receipt for being on the “right side of history” lol. You played right into the game that manufactured consent for it and got duped. Let me guess, you’re a boomer, right? You even managed to slip in the obligatory “your not a patriot” line. Do you ever get tired of simping for the military industrial complex and getting tricked into supporting every conflict ever?
 
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MickZagger said:
Suppressing voting blocks has been a campaign strategy for the Republican Party going on several elections now.

Gee, I wonder why
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Illegal aliens are not a legitimate ‘voting block’. That’s is who proponents of voter ID are trying to keep from voting, and rightfully so. You know this and so do the others, but you hide behind fake racism claims because you know democrats are the ones trying to let it slide and you know exactly why. You are being purposefully ignorant and just yelling racism when a fact is too inconvenient for you to address like an adult. You don’t have a good answer.
 
barfo said:
Response needs to be proportionate to the threat. There isn't any serious threat from a few fools trying to vote more than once.
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And if i say there’s no threat and just call everybody racist then BINGO, no response.
 
jonnyboy said:
Illegal aliens are not a legitimate ‘voting block’. That’s is who proponents of voter ID are trying to keep from voting, and rightfully so. You know this and so do the others, but you hide behind fake racism claims because you know democrats are the ones trying to let it slide and you know exactly why. You are being purposefully ignorant and just yelling racism when a fact is too inconvenient for you to address like an adult. You don’t have a good answer.
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I’m not talking about illegals. I’m doubtful too many illegals are eager to put themselves out their in that capacity, they’d prefer to keep a lower profile.

I’d provide you with tons of articles of voter suppression by Republicans but you’d gaslight it and you and your ilk don’t believe in news.

So I’m saving us that pointless endeavor.
 
jonnyboy said:
Illegal aliens are not a legitimate ‘voting block’. That’s is who proponents of voter ID are trying to keep from voting, and rightfully so. You know this and so do the others, but you hide behind fake racism claims because you know democrats are the ones trying to let it slide and you know exactly why. You are being purposefully ignorant and just yelling racism when a fact is too inconvenient for you to address like an adult. You don’t have a good answer.
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Illegal immigrants are afraid to visit the emergency room, afraid to go to parent teacher conferences, afraid to call the police when they're victims of crime, but suddenly they're fearless when it comes to voting?
 
jonnyboy said:
This is one of the only places left online where Russiagate still gets any traction lol. The rest of the leftist sphere quietly and embarrassingly swept it under the rug long ago. Steele dossier fake, payed for by American democrats. Pee tape fake. Troll farm claims greatly exaggerated and on par with other click farms around the world. Mueller investigation unable to cite a single instance of subversion and uncovered exactly nothing. The whole thing was fake. Your McCarthyist cold war nonsense demanding conflicts with other nations is what’s on the wrong side of history. A million dead Ukrainian and Russian kids is your receipt for being on the “right side of history” lol. You played right into the game that manufactured consent for it and got duped. Let me guess, you’re a boomer, right? You even managed to slip in the obligatory “your not a patriot” line. Do you ever get tired of simping for the military industrial complex and getting tricked into supporting every conflict ever?
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You might want to do some boning up on "McCarthyism", because it's what is happening right this instant, and all propagated for the guy you insist on defending. McCarthyism is native hysteria. It's not starting foreign wars, it's going to war with your fellow countrymen by creating big lies and pushing them as far as you can, without proof of any kind. It's about turning us against each other. It's about "the enemy within". It's about using the media to create false narratives. It's about ruining lives and careers with deliberate falsehoods. The architect of the McCarthyism was another self hating Jew (looking at you Stephen Miller) who was also gay (which made him even angrier) by the name of Roy Cohn. Donald Trump literally learned at Cohn's knee. Cohn was his first and biggest advisor, and Trump has taken his playbook, added to it and is pushing the hell out of it. If you're going to try dissing us, and using historical context to make a point, please at least try to get the facts straight. And these wars you keep bringing up (at least the ones Americans fought in) were pretty much ALL instigated by Republican presidents. But at least the "Steele Dossier" thing you threw at the wall stuck....so you have that going for you....
 
God you can tell when some moron I have blocked is posting because suddenly the thread becomes incomprehensible as everyone takes the bait and tries to reason with the trolls.
 
Everything Beagle said:
God you can tell when some moron I have blocked is posting because suddenly the thread becomes incomprehensible as everyone takes the bait and tries to reason with the trolls.
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I am not a troll, dammit!
 
jonnyboy said:
Illegal aliens are not a legitimate ‘voting block’. That’s is who proponents of voter ID are trying to keep from voting, and rightfully so. You know this and so do the others, but you hide behind fake racism claims because you know democrats are the ones trying to let it slide and you know exactly why. You are being purposefully ignorant and just yelling racism when a fact is too inconvenient for you to address like an adult. You don’t have a good answer.
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Forcing an additional ID has nothing to do with that. It's not necessary or even helpful. If people aren't registered to vote their vote doesn't count. If illegals are not allowed to vote in your state then it doesn't matter if there is a special voter ID or not. Their vote wouldn't count.

The proponents of voter ID are either ignorant or they are trying to make it harder for poor people to vote. Simple as that.
 
Democratic Party Lawyers Kick Third Party Off Ballot in Swing States

 
I’ve never bee accused of being a racist…..EVER! Wonder who I’m voting for.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
You might want to do some boning up on "McCarthyism", because it's what is happening right this instant, and all propagated for the guy you insist on defending. McCarthyism is native hysteria. It's not starting foreign wars, it's going to war with your fellow countrymen by creating big lies and pushing them as far as you can, without proof of any kind. It's about turning us against each other. It's about "the enemy within". It's about using the media to create false narratives. It's about ruining lives and careers with deliberate falsehoods. The architect of the McCarthyism was another self hating Jew (looking at you Stephen Miller) who was also gay (which made him even angrier) by the name of Roy Cohn. Donald Trump literally learned at Cohn's knee. Cohn was his first and biggest advisor, and Trump has taken his playbook, added to it and is pushing the hell out of it. If you're going to try dissing us, and using historical context to make a point, please at least try to get the facts straight. And these wars you keep bringing up (at least the ones Americans fought in) were pretty much ALL instigated by Republican presidents. But at least the "Steele Dossier" thing you threw at the wall stuck....so you have that going for you....
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You basically just angrily agreed with everything i said. Thanks?
 
Road Ratt said:
Democratic Party Lawyers Kick Third Party Off Ballot in Swing States

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It’s called rigging. They do it every election.
Now quick, everyone in the forum rush to defend this with weak technicalities and loose justifications.

Ready set go!
 
jonnyboy said:
It’s called rigging.
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I don't think that's what's usually meant by rigging, but ok.

Question: do you mean it's rigging to file a suit, or is it only rigging if the court finds in your favor?

barfo
 
Georgia election officials defend voting system against barrage of false claims, conspiracy theories

 
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