Is this the best starting 5 of Dame's career?

[GriLtCheeZ]

I'd love to see:
Dame
CJ
Igoudala
Melo
Whiteside

 

[wizenheimer]

Wes was ...and I've said that about 3 times but he was way way worse on offense than Rodney or CJ

ok then, CJ last year vs Matthews in 2013/14 (Portland 53 wins vs 54 wins):

PER: CJ 17.0....Matthews 15.7 (impacted by volume shooting, like CJ does)
TS%: CJ .553....Matthews .588
eFG%: CJ .527....Matthews .541
points/shot: CJ 1.18....Matthews 1.33
FT Rate: CJ .154....Matthews .298
assist rate: CJ 13.8....Matthews 10.9
usage rate: CJ 25.5....Matthews 19.6
assist/usage: CJ .541....Matthews .556
offensive rating: CJ 113....Matthews 118 (CJ -1.7 worse than team; Matthews +6.5 better than team)
off winshares: CJ 4.0....Matthews 6.3
winshares: CJ 5.6....Matthews 8.0
winshares/48: CJ .114....Matthews .142
offensive box +/-: CJ 2.2....Matthews 3.4
box +/-: CJ 0.3....Matthews 2.4
value over replacement: CJ 1.3....Matthews 3.1

that's pretty much a slam dunk for Matthews. And if CJ was so much better offensively, you'd really expect to see it in the offensive metrics, but Matthews wins every one

CJ's only offensive advantage was in volume. He just used more possessions than Matthews by attempting 4.5 more shots a game. Yeah, CJ can go one on one...we know that. But he's not that good at it. If he was, he wouldn't have just average efficiency. Going one-on-one all the time with average efficiency and one of the worst FT rates among high usage players is not good offense.

and obviously, Matthews was worlds better as a defender. Just remember back to the job he did on Harden in the playoffs....then think about how CJ would do....LOL

 

[riverman]

ok then, CJ last year vs Matthews in 2013/14 (Portland 53 wins vs 54 wins):

PER: CJ 17.0....Matthews 15.7 (impacted by volume shooting, like CJ does)
TS%: CJ .553....Matthews .588
eFG%: CJ .527....Matthews .541
points/shot: CJ 1.18....Matthews 1.33
FT Rate: CJ .154....Matthews .298
assist rate: CJ 13.8....Matthews 10.9
usage rate: CJ 25.5....Matthews 19.6
assist/usage: CJ .541....Matthews .556
offensive rating: CJ 113....Matthews 118 (CJ -1.7 worse than team; Matthews +6.5 better than team)
off winshares: CJ 4.0....Matthews 6.3
winshares: CJ 5.6....Matthews 8.0
winshares/48: CJ .114....Matthews .142
offensive box +/-: CJ 2.2....Matthews 3.4
box +/-: CJ 0.3....Matthews 2.4
value over replacement: CJ 1.3....Matthews 3.1

that's pretty much a slam dunk for Matthews. And if CJ was so much better offensively, you'd really expect to see it in the offensive metrics, but Matthews wins every one

CJ's only offensive advantage was in volume. He just used more possessions than Matthews by attempting 4.5 more shots a game. Yeah, CJ can go one on one...we know that. But he's not that good at it. If he was, he wouldn't have just average efficiency. Going one-on-one all the time with average efficiency and one of the worst FT rates among high usage players is not good offense.

and obviously, Matthews was worlds better as a defender. Just remember back to the job he did on Harden in the playoffs....then think about how CJ would do....LOL

This season CJ has 15 blocks Wes has 2
CJ has 17 offensive rebounds...wes has 2
CJ has 92 rebounds...Wes has 45
CJ has 76 assists..Wes has 27
etc.....the 2014 season was a career year for Wes according to your stats....I watched Wes every season he was here...he was not good in the open court and had bad handles...that year he shot his best 3pt percentage.....CJ has improved his defense with 11 different starting lineups and had a bad shooting start...CJ won us a seven game road series...logs the most minutes in the NBA for last few years...sniff test says.....CJ is the better 2 guard in my view ...ask yourself...with the game on the line which guy do you want hitting a game winner? Playoff CJ has been great ...I remember the Harden game...Wes rocked the house...and I like Wes....but my best roster doesn't have him on it......Wes was all heart and a grind it out guy for sure and a better defender than Dame or CJ...probably not better than Mo from my view as a defender but right there.

 

[Natebishop3]

This season CJ has 15 blocks Wes has 2
CJ has 17 offensive rebounds...wes has 2
CJ has 92 rebounds...Wes has 45
CJ has 76 assists..Wes has 27
etc.....the 2014 season was a career year for Wes according to your stats....I watched Wes every season he was here...he was not good in the open court and had bad handles...that year he shot his best 3pt percentage.....CJ has improved his defense with 11 different starting lineups and had a bad shooting start...CJ won us a seven game road series...logs the most minutes in the NBA for last few years...sniff test says.....CJ is the better 2 guard in my view ...ask yourself...with the game on the line which guy do you want hitting a game winner? Playoff CJ has been great ...I remember the Harden game...Wes rocked the house...and I like Wes....but my best roster doesn't have him on it......Wes was all heart and a grind it out guy for sure and a better defender than Dame or CJ...probably not better than Mo from my view as a defender but right there.

You can't use Wes' stats from this season. He's a shadow of himself. And we're not comparing Wes from this season to CJ, we're comparing Wes from when he was a Blazer on a team with Dame.

 

[riverman]

You can't use Wes' stats from this season. He's a shadow of himself. And we're not comparing Wes from this season to CJ, we're comparing Wes from when he was a Blazer on a team with Dame.

I don't use stats usually at all......I was responding to the post above mine but I can make a comparison just like the guy who said Rolo is hitting 3s with the Bucks...if it doesn't interest you there's no point is there? You compare whatever you want....there's no "rule" about how to post concerning this topic. move on

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't use stats usually at all......I was responding to the post above mine but I can make a comparison just like the guy who said Rolo is hitting 3s with the Bucks...if it doesn't interest you there's no point is there? You compare whatever you want....there's no "rule" about how to post concerning this topic. move on

.............

By this bizarre rationale, if you compared Trump as President to JFK as President, Trump would win because JFK is dead.

Also, the "rules" as you put it are set by the OP when he created a thread comparing THIS starting five to past starting fives with Dame on them.

 

[riverman]

.............

By this bizarre rationale, if you compared Trump as President to JFK as President, Trump would win because JFK is dead.

Also, the "rules" as you put it are set by the OP when he created a thread comparing THIS starting five to past starting fives with Dame on them.

So let me get this straight....when Nurk and Zach come back from injury...we get to compare their game even though they've been injured....Hassan had two injuries this season already so he's off limits as well....look dude...you post your takes and I'll post mine. Stick to the topic at least....if you think Wes is a dead.president...that's some bizarre rationale for you. Brandon Roy was injured his entire career...let's just erase him from the roster too...….you got my point....poking it with a stick won't change anything

 

[wizenheimer]

This season CJ has 15 blocks Wes has 2
CJ has 17 offensive rebounds...wes has 2
CJ has 92 rebounds...Wes has 45
CJ has 76 assists..Wes has 27
etc.....the 2014 season was a career year for Wes according to your stats....I watched Wes every season he was here...he was not good in the open court and had bad handles...that year he shot his best 3pt percentage.....CJ has improved his defense with 11 different starting lineups and had a bad shooting start...CJ won us a seven game road series...logs the most minutes in the NBA for last few years...sniff test says.....CJ is the better 2 guard in my view ...ask yourself...with the game on the line which guy do you want hitting a game winner? Playoff CJ has been great ...I remember the Harden game...Wes rocked the house...and I like Wes....but my best roster doesn't have him on it......Wes was all heart and a grind it out guy for sure and a better defender than Dame or CJ...probably not better than Mo from my view as a defender but right there.

sorry man...that's doesn't compute because you're just ignoring the topic of this thread for too much of your argument

I didn't have to use CJ last season, I could have used CJ this season, which actually would have been more on-topic, and compare to 2014 Matthews, and if I had, it would have been an even bigger advantage for Matthews statistically. I know people will say statistics aren't everything, especially when the stats conflict with their bias. But stats are important gauges because some eye-tests get things wrong or don't account for every aspect of a player's game

hypothetically, I'd rather have the 27 year old Matthews paired with Dame and then focus on getting a high-caliber wing capable of handling the ball. It would mesh a lot better than the it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-it's-my-turn-again-iso-heavy synergy that Dame and CJ have. I mean, in 5 games it already seems that Dame and Melo have a better mesh than Dame and CJ do after 300 games

as to the thread topic, about the only way I'd see somebody landing on this current team being better than the 2014 team is how much better Dame is now.

 

[riverman]

Also, the "rules" as you put it are set by the OP when he created a thread comparing THIS starting five to past starting fives with Dame on them.

you have anything to say about the topic or is my take the topic now?

 

[tester551]

hypothetically, I'd rather have the 27 year old Matthews paired with Dame and then focus on getting a high-caliber wing capable of handling the ball. It would mesh a lot better than the it's-my-turn-it's-your-turn-it's-my-turn-again-iso-heavy synergy that Dame and CJ have. I mean, in 5 games it already seems that Dame and Melo have a better mesh than Dame and CJ do after 300 games

Sad, but so true.
Wish that Neil could see that.

 

[Natebishop3]

So let me get this straight....when Nurk and Zach come back from injury...we get to compare their game even though they've been injured....Hassan had two injuries this season already so he's off limits as well....look dude...you post your takes and I'll post mine. Stick to the topic at least....if you think Wes is a dead.president...that's some bizarre rationale for you. Brandon Roy was injured his entire career...let's just erase him from the roster too...….you got my point....poking it with a stick won't change anything

Are you having a stroke? I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about at this point.

 

[Natebishop3]

you have anything to say about the topic or is my take the topic now?

Sure scroll up and you will see my take on this topic. But guess what, when you post an opinion on a forum it’s fair game for people to respond to it.

 

[THE HCP]

Are you having a stroke? I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about at this point.

I was informed in another thread that it wasn't funny to say Joakim Noah was going to kill JinxSpeed and shove his rotting corpse into the truck of his car, so you should probably not joke about this gentleman having a stroke.

 

[wizenheimer]

duh...I mentioned already....Wes was terrible under the basket and at finishing a simple layup

I just saw this, so I'm going to add to my above comparison of CJ last year vs Wes in 2014

single season FG% of shots in 0-3' zone: CJ .561....Matthews .638

career FG% of shots in 0-3' zone: CJ .555....Matthews .590

if Wes was "terrible at the basket and finishing layups"....what is CJ?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

ok then, CJ last year vs Matthews in 2013/14 (Portland 53 wins vs 54 wins):

PER: CJ 17.0....Matthews 15.7 (impacted by volume shooting, like CJ does)
TS%: CJ .553....Matthews .588
eFG%: CJ .527....Matthews .541
points/shot: CJ 1.18....Matthews 1.33
FT Rate: CJ .154....Matthews .298
assist rate: CJ 13.8....Matthews 10.9
usage rate: CJ 25.5....Matthews 19.6
assist/usage: CJ .541....Matthews .556
offensive rating: CJ 113....Matthews 118 (CJ -1.7 worse than team; Matthews +6.5 better than team)
off winshares: CJ 4.0....Matthews 6.3
winshares: CJ 5.6....Matthews 8.0
winshares/48: CJ .114....Matthews .142
offensive box +/-: CJ 2.2....Matthews 3.4
box +/-: CJ 0.3....Matthews 2.4
value over replacement: CJ 1.3....Matthews 3.1

that's pretty much a slam dunk for Matthews. And if CJ was so much better offensively, you'd really expect to see it in the offensive metrics, but Matthews wins every one

CJ's only offensive advantage was in volume. He just used more possessions than Matthews by attempting 4.5 more shots a game. Yeah, CJ can go one on one...we know that. But he's not that good at it. If he was, he wouldn't have just average efficiency. Going one-on-one all the time with average efficiency and one of the worst FT rates among high usage players is not good offense.

and obviously, Matthews was worlds better as a defender. Just remember back to the job he did on Harden in the playoffs....then think about how CJ would do....LOL

The memory of Matthews defensively that always gets me was when Korver was on his consecutive 3's hit in a game streak and Matthews only gave him 2 good looks the entire game, he was so locked in. He was all over him defensively.

 

[tester551]

I just saw this, so I'm going to add to my above comparison of CJ last year vs Wes in 2014

single season FG% of shots in 0-3' zone: CJ .561....Matthews .638

career FG% of shots in 0-3' zone: CJ .555....Matthews .590

if Wes was "terrible at the basket and finishing layups"....what is CJ?

What are these numbers you're always spewing out?
You have to use the eye test... because my eyes NEVER lie.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'd love for you to explain what that was all about. What are you talking about? Blazers TV truck? I have taken people on tours of our studio and truck for YEARS. What does this mean?

More importantly, you and he agree about not joking about serious medical conditions. Common ground! Kum-bah-yah, my Lord, kum-bah-yah...

 

[THE HCP]

More importantly, you and he agree about not joking about serious medical conditions. Common ground! Kum-bah-yah, my Lord, kum-bah-yah...

On that note.....and more importantly, is JinxSpeed safe and has he posted today?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

On that note.....and more importantly, is JinxSpeed safe and has he posted today?

Haven't seen a post, but at the very least...

 

[THE HCP]

Haven't seen a post, but at the very least...

View attachment 28846

Oh no!!!!!! @KingSpeed please tell me you are OK.

 

[wizenheimer]

is QueenSpeed faster than KingSpeed?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

is QueenSpeed faster than KingSpeed?

Don't know about faster, but can certainly travel much farther at any given time.

 

[riverman]

Are you having a stroke? I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about at this point.

Actually I just got back from the hospital in Atrial Fibulation...luckily it didn't end in a stroke......thanks for asking though. I'm at a high risk for heart failure and it's one day at a time so if you're looking for a sparring partner...….look elsewhere. Your post says a lot about your character. I was talking about the OP...not Kennedy and Trump.....feel good about your condescension? Trying to say CJ is better than someone else is going to get reactions, I get that....it's HOW you react that I find rude and unnecessary. We're done here bucko

 

[wizenheimer]

Actually I just got back from the hospital in Atrial Fibulation...luckily it didn't end in a stroke......thanks for asking though. I'm at a high risk for heart failure and it's one day at a time so if you're looking for a sparring partner...….look elsewhere. Your post says a lot about your character. I was talking about the OP...not Kennedy and Trump.....feel good about your condescension? Trying to say CJ is better than someone else is going to get reactions, I get that....it's HOW you react that I find rude and unnecessary. We're done here bucko

yeah, I still feel bad about the dumb joke I made....I hope I'm not still on your shit list

sucks you were in the hospital. I was in the hospital for the first time in my life about 3 years ago for a gall-bladder attack, so it was minor compared to you (painful as hell though). I sure hope you can get better

the worst thing about being in the hospital was I don't think I've ever felt less in control. I guess maybe the impending Christmas with the in-laws will test that

 

[stampedehero]

I think CJ and Hood are way better then Wes and Nico...look at those guys since leaving and only Lamarcus is still really good ...Allan Crabbe has been dogshit for years since he left

Wow! You dislike Crabbe. Add Evan Turner and start a Blazer player hate club.

 

[Natebishop3]

Actually I just got back from the hospital in Atrial Fibulation...luckily it didn't end in a stroke......thanks for asking though. I'm at a high risk for heart failure and it's one day at a time so if you're looking for a sparring partner...….look elsewhere. Your post says a lot about your character. I was talking about the OP...not Kennedy and Trump.....feel good about your condescension? Trying to say CJ is better than someone else is going to get reactions, I get that....it's HOW you react that I find rude and unnecessary. We're done here bucko

I'm sorry about your health but I genuinely don't care what you think about me. You have always had a hard time dealing with someone disagreeing with you.

 

[Natebishop3]

I was informed in another thread that it wasn't funny to say Joakim Noah was going to kill JinxSpeed and shove his rotting corpse into the truck of his car, so you should probably not joke about this gentleman having a stroke.

But what if you're genuinely concerned that there's something wrong because the person isn't making any sense?

 

[riverman]

You have always had a hard time dealing with someone disagreeing with you.

I don't have a hard time dealing with disagreement about basketball....one of us was not civil about this discussion and it wasn't me....I'll refrain from poking a stick at you about it..put me on ignore if you think I'm hard to read around here. Get a life...or not...choices..That make sense to you? Baiting on a message board seems to make the most sense to you from what I've read....I don't give a shit how you spin it. Find a willing sparring partner and waste your own time

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't have a hard time dealing with disagreement about basketball....one of us was not civil about this discussion and it wasn't me....I'll refrain from poking a stick at you about it..put me on ignore if you think I'm hard to read around here. Get a life...or not...choices

Go back and reread our interactions. I wasn't uncivil towards you in my reply. You were the one who decided to break away from the topic at hand. Look in the mirror.

You can't use Wes' stats from this season. He's a shadow of himself. And we're not comparing Wes from this season to CJ, we're comparing Wes from when he was a Blazer on a team with Dame.

I don't use stats usually at all......I was responding to the post above mine but I can make a comparison just like the guy who said Rolo is hitting 3s with the Bucks...if it doesn't interest you there's no point is there? You compare whatever you want....there's no "rule" about how to post concerning this topic. move on

 

[HailBlazers]

Girls, you're both ugly.