Is Whiteside better than a healthy Nurk?

[mook]

Nurk Fever was a real thing when we first added him, but people forget we lost 3 of our first 4 games he played for us, with the one win coming against Orlando. He got better, but it took some games to adapt. We lost 2 of our first 4 games with Robin Lopez. Same with Mason Plumlee.

Change isn't easy. Whiteside was dinged up in preseason and is really trying to find his way while also playing himself into game shape.

He wasn't great against the Spurs, but to be fair Aldridge had started the season really well (22pts/.533, 27pts/.588). Aldridge went for 15pts/.353. If Collins were healthy that would've been Zach's assignment for much of the game, and Whiteside would have more leeway for team defense.

It does seem like he's dropping a foot or two too much on the pick and roll. It's creating gaps around the perimeter that are one of the reasons teams are getting so many open threes. I'm hoping we make adjustments. Even if he can't adjust, well, it's not like Nurkic wasn't flawed when we got him (really, really terrible around the rim scoring).

I'm really, really grateful to have Whiteside. Forget Nurkic vs Whiteside. We could have Kanter/Leonard instead of Hood/Whiteside right now. Fuck that.

 

[BonesJones]

What Ive noticed is fans are extremely quick to turn on him and its sad.

 

[illmatic99]

Dame and Nurk had nearly instant chemistry. Hassan has been in town for almost a month and they still can't get the timing down on P&Rs. Dame doesn't throw lobs, and Hassan doesn't create passing lanes for the pocket pass. They need to figure this out quick.

As for the poll, it's a nobrainer for me. I'll take the guy who doesn't stand around like his feet are nailed to the floor.

 

[Bruno_Sabino]

Right now he doesn’t look like. Still think he’ll improve

 

[julius]

What Ive noticed is fans are extremely quick to turn on him and its sad.

Fans can turn on a player 3 times in the same quarter.

 

[riverman]

What Ive noticed is fans are extremely quick to turn on him and its sad.

Our first game just a few minutes into the season I logged on the game thread and your post read.."Skal sucks"...……..at that point, I left the thread thinking pretty much what you just said....sad

 

[BonesJones]

Our first game just a few minutes into the season I logged on the game thread and your post read.."Skal sucks"...……..at that point, I left the thread thinking pretty much what you just said....sad

I was frustrated with his play because I knew he could play better. I wasnt campaigning his "laziness".

 

[BigGameDamian]

Well what we do know is the Blazers went after Whiteside before getting Nurkic.

 

[hoopsjock]

Well what we do know is the Blazers went after Whiteside before getting Nurkic.

Well that's super misleading considering Nurk was only 2 years into his 4 year rookie contract in the summer of 2016 when we had cap space.

 

[Shaboid]

Well that's super misleading considering Nurk was only 2 years into his 4 year rookie contract in the summer of 2016 when we had cap space.

It wasn't really misleading. He was stating something that is factual.

 

[julius]

It wasn't really misleading. He was stating something that is factual.

Something can be factual and also misleading.

 

[Shaboid]

Something can be factual and also misleading.

Yeah, sorry for trying to support a BGD bot idea.

 

[Orion Bailey]

uhhh...




No.

 

[Shaboid]

This thread should be titled, "Is there a better center in the NBA than a healthy Nurk?". That would at least be an arguable subject.

 

[Lanny]

Close though. Whiteside is the better rebounder but I still think the Bosnian Beast is our starter.

This team doesn't have a true scoring power forward. I suspect Whiteside will be dealt for one. Because I can't see HW and Nurk coexisting. They both have a bad reputation for pouting on past teams, and Nurk specifically did not do well when he was trying to coexist with Jokic. With that said, Whiteside is nearing that age where he would be a perfect backup center. But he's still playing at an All-Star level. He's not going to want to come off the bench. I think Nurk would accept a bench role until he's back to 100%, but after that..... things will get nasty.

In terms of the salary cap, I don't think Jody gives a rats ass about the money.

Jokic was the starter at Denver. I don't think Whiteside will start when Nurkic gets back and in game shape. The only question is, will Whiteside pout? Hope not. If he doesn't we're going to have one hell of a team.

 

[Lanny]

Nurk Fever was a real thing when we first added him, but people forget we lost 3 of our first 4 games he played for us, with the one win coming against Orlando. He got better, but it took some games to adapt. We lost 2 of our first 4 games with Robin Lopez. Same with Mason Plumlee.

Change isn't easy. Whiteside was dinged up in preseason and is really trying to find his way while also playing himself into game shape.

He wasn't great against the Spurs, but to be fair Aldridge had started the season really well (22pts/.533, 27pts/.588). Aldridge went for 15pts/.353. If Collins were healthy that would've been Zach's assignment for much of the game, and Whiteside would have more leeway for team defense.

It does seem like he's dropping a foot or two too much on the pick and roll. It's creating gaps around the perimeter that are one of the reasons teams are getting so many open threes. I'm hoping we make adjustments. Even if he can't adjust, well, it's not like Nurkic wasn't flawed when we got him (really, really terrible around the rim scoring).

I'm really, really grateful to have Whiteside. Forget Nurkic vs Whiteside. We could have Kanter/Leonard instead of Hood/Whiteside right now. Fuck that.

It wasn't really misleading. He was stating something that is factual.

It's all about context and not facts.
Me? I'm undecided at this time.

 

[B-Roy]

I don't even think Whiteside is better than Kanter. Kanter was an awesome pick and roll big with Dame. Hassan gets his stats at the expense of the rest of the team. Also think Kanter is better at moving his feet on defense even if Whiteside is a better positional defender.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[BigGameDamian]

BUMP!

 

[tlongII]

Still nope, but he's a good center.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Nurk makes the team better on offense and defense. Whiteside barely knows how to function as part of a team. So no.

 

[e_blazer]

Still nope, but he's a good center.

Agree, but a Nurk/Whiteside center rotation would be awesome.

 

[kjironman1]

Dude is a beast no question. Glad the Blazers have him right now. 23 rebounds! Wow!

 

[Blazers1977]

Changing my vote to yes.

I think people are only remembering Nurk at his very best. He was never a very consistent player. Both are still borderline all stars.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Changing my vote to yes.

I think people are only remembering Nurk at his very best. He was never a very consistent player. Both are still borderline all stars.

I'm sure there is something to that, but IMO I think Nurk is a better overall player. What whiteside does better is block shots, and finish strong.
I'd say defensive rebounding wise they're fairly equal (whiteside may have a small advantage). I think Nurk is a better passer and decision-maker with the ball, Nurk's better on the offensive boards (it's just harder to box him out), Nurk's got more of a post game in my opinion too.

All that said whiteside has been very good this year, I wouldn't really say the struggles are on him. He's got some holes in his game, but he does basically everything their asking him to do at a reasonable level.

 

[Blazers1977]

I'm sure there is something to that, but IMO I think Nurk is a better overall player. What whiteside does better is block shots, and finish strong.
I'd say defensive rebounding wise they're fairly equal (whiteside may have a small advantage). I think Nurk is a better passer and decision-maker with the ball, Nurk's better on the offensive boards (it's just harder to box him out), Nurk's got more of a post game in my opinion too.

All that said whiteside has been very good this year, I wouldn't really say the struggles are on him. He's got some holes in his game, but he does basically everything their asking him to do at a reasonable level.

I think Nurks passing was kind of overrated. He looked to pass often, but his passes were often inaccurate and he turned it over a lot throwing risky passes.

also I’d give the clear rebound advantage to whiteside. Nurk has never come close to whitesides numbers for any sustained period.

the only thing I’d say Nurk is better at is playing pick and roll and getting his own buckets. And passing, but not by much.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think Nurks passing was kind of overrated. He looked to pass often, but his passes were often inaccurate and he turned it over a lot throwing risky passes.

also I’d give the clear rebound advantage to whiteside. Nurk has never come close to whitesides numbers for any sustained period.

the only thing I’d say Nurk is better at is playing pick and roll and getting his own buckets. And passing, but not by much.

Nurkic turned it over a little more often than Whiteside does (like, half a turnover per game), but he gets like 2.5 times more assists. It's a pretty significant difference.

And Nurkic's overall defensive impact (ie, operating effectively within a scheme) is light years better than Whiteside. That is, IMO, the biggest difference between the two.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think Nurks passing was kind of overrated. He looked to pass often, but his passes were often inaccurate and he turned it over a lot throwing risky passes.

also I’d give the clear rebound advantage to whiteside. Nurk has never come close to whitesides numbers for any sustained period.

the only thing I’d say Nurk is better at is playing pick and roll and getting his own buckets. And passing, but not by much.

You can tell me I can't read stats if that will make this discussion easier, heh.
Whiteside probably is a better rebounder, I won't give you to much of an argument there.
Something I find interesting is OPBM/DPBM/BPM.
OBPM has them both basically identical -1.7 and -1.6. DBPM favors Nurk (both are good defenders) 2.9 vs 2.3.

Nurkic's usage is a tad higher, but his assist rate is 13.2% Whiteside is 4.2% Thir turnover % Nurkic does turn it over more at 15.7 but whiteside is at 12.3%.

I know all stats need a grain of salt added to them. They aren't perfect. One other thing I'd say is This is Prime Hassan, this is probably as good as it gets. Nurks prime is still 2-3 years away (hopefully he is able to stay healthy).

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think Nurks passing was kind of overrated. He looked to pass often, but his passes were often inaccurate and he turned it over a lot throwing risky passes.

also I’d give the clear rebound advantage to whiteside. Nurk has never come close to whitesides numbers for any sustained period.

the only thing I’d say Nurk is better at is playing pick and roll and getting his own buckets. And passing, but not by much.

I think the moral of the story is we have two really good bigs!

 

[calvin natt]

I think the team is better when Nurkic plays, so that’s all that matters