Is Whiteside better than a healthy Nurk?

[Sarni]

Both are excellent rebounders. Nurkic is a better playmaker, better defender. Whiteside is a more consistent finisher at the rim and a better shot blocker by a margin. Overall Nurkic is a better player but I wouldn’t mind keeping Whiteside beyond this season.

 

[Pinwheel1]

They are pretty different that is for sure. Nurk plays more physical and defends certain players better and before he got hurt the offense was flowing well with him out there. But because Whiteside is so long he defends without picking up fouls. And when he gets the ball down low, whether from a pass or rebound, he is dunking it. He seldom fumbles the ball down low. Both seem to be about the same from mid range.

Whiteside is 5 years older but they both can easily play another 5 years. Nurk obviously is the fan favorite because of his personality. Sure would like to keep both if Whiteside would take a pay cut. But my guess is that will be an issue.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm sure there is something to that, but IMO I think Nurk is a better overall player. What whiteside does better is block shots, and finish strong.
I'd say defensive rebounding wise they're fairly equal (whiteside may have a small advantage). I think Nurk is a better passer and decision-maker with the ball, Nurk's better on the offensive boards (it's just harder to box him out), Nurk's got more of a post game in my opinion too.

All that said whiteside has been very good this year, I wouldn't really say the struggles are on him. He's got some holes in his game, but he does basically everything their asking him to do at a reasonable level.

about the rebounding, career numbers:

off reb rate: Nurkic 11.9%....Whiteside 14.1%
def reb rate: Nurkic 26.0%....Whiteside 34.5%
total reb rate: Nurkic 19.0%....Whiteside 24.3%

some other career numbers:

PER: Nurkic 19.1....Whiteside 24.2
TS%: Nurkic .529....Whiteside .594
FT Rate: Nurkic .368....Whiteside .379
block rate: Nurkic 4.5%....Whiteside 7.3%
def BPM: Nurkic 2.9%....Whiteside 2.3%

assist rate: Nurkic 13.2%....Whiteside 4.1% (Nurkic 17.9% last season; Hassan 7.1% this season)
turnover rate: Nurkic 15.7%....Whiteside 12.3% (you'd expect to see higher turnovers with more passing)

statistically, Whiteside has a big edge across the board until it comes to defense and passing. Now defensively, Whiteside is a better rim protector (he's obviously taller and longer) but I'm not sure that translates to overall better interior defense. Obviously defensive rebounding is a component of defense, so Whiteside has that going for him. But my thinking is that Nurkic is probably a better instinctive defender. I also think you need to weigh those DBPM numbers by the fact Nurkic played with much better defenders last season, on a better defensive team

I've been thinking that Nurkic's big advantage over Whiteside was how he fits with Dame and the Stotts offense, especially in the pick and roll. The Dame/Nurk two-man game was a thing of beauty last season, most of the time. But I was pretty surprised by the PnR/roll-man stats from NBA.com for Nurkic last season vs Hassan this season:

frequency: Nurkic 24.6%....Whiteside 31.4%
points/possession: Nurkic 1.13....Whiteside 1.17
eFG%: Nurkic 55.2%....Whiteside 61.5%
FT Frequency: Nurkic 18.9%....Whiteside 12.7%
turnover frequency: Nurkic 5.9%....Whiteside 8.2%
percentile: Nurkic 60.6%....Whiteside 60.9%

yeah, I would have bet that Nurkic would have a significant edge in these numbers; but he doesn't

I tend to think Nurkic is a better player, although I wouldn't give him as big an edge as many do, and obviously, the stats tell a story that conflicts with a Nurkic bias. Maybe Nurkic is getting too much credit, in minds, for being on a good team last year while Whiteside is getting too much blame for the current team. The Nurkic nostalgia might be too strong, and Whiteside's biggest issue is he isn't Nurkic. Nurkic had a lot more help inside last season than Whiteside had this season.

Nurkic's biggest edge is that he's more than 5 years younger than Whiteside, and has a lot of margin for improvement. Whiteside's upside is probably capped

 

[wizenheimer]

I think the team is better when Nurkic plays, so that’s all that matters

sorry, that's not all that matters, IMO.....we haven't seen Nurkic play with Tolliver & Hezonja as PF's. We saw him play with Aminu & Zach as the PF rotation, and Harkless and Hood as the SF rotation; with Curry stretching the floor instead of Simons and his inconsistent iso. With Turner running the 2nd unit instead of Bazemore or Hezonja. Of course the Blazers were playing better with Nurkic...they were a much better team last season and a lot of that was due to much better roster construction and years of continuity.

Whiteside doesn't have any of those advantages

 

[calvin natt]

sorry, that's not all that matters, IMO.....we haven't seen Nurkic play with Tolliver & Hezonja as PF's. We saw him play with Aminu & Zach as the PF rotation, and Harkless and Hood as the SF rotation; with Curry stretching the floor instead of Simons and his inconsistent iso. With Turner running the 2nd unit instead of Bazemore or Hezonja. Of course the Blazers were playing better with Nurkic...they were a much better team last season and a lot of that was due to much better roster construction and years of continuity.

Whiteside doesn't have any of those advantages

Ok. I feel like Whiteside is a little of a stat stuffing guy who doesn’t necessarily have a positive impact on the team. I don’t think he plays hard all the time. That’s just my opinion. I think Lillard plays well with Nurkic.

 

[GDiama]

I don't see our reb% with Whiteside off the floor dropping as much as it did with Nurk off the floor. Hassan is a great individual rebounder but just stealing them from your teammates doesn't mean much to the team's rebounding numbers. It just boosts your own.

 

[Hoopguru]

about the rebounding, career numbers:

off reb rate: Nurkic 11.9%....Whiteside 14.1%
def reb rate: Nurkic 26.0%....Whiteside 34.5%
total reb rate: Nurkic 19.0%....Whiteside 24.3%

some other career numbers:

PER: Nurkic 19.1....Whiteside 24.2
TS%: Nurkic .529....Whiteside .594
FT Rate: Nurkic .368....Whiteside .379
block rate: Nurkic 4.5%....Whiteside 7.3%
def BPM: Nurkic 2.9%....Whiteside 2.3%

assist rate: Nurkic 13.2%....Whiteside 4.1% (Nurkic 17.9% last season; Hassan 7.1% this season)
turnover rate: Nurkic 15.7%....Whiteside 12.3% (you'd expect to see higher turnovers with more passing)

statistically, Whiteside has a big edge across the board until it comes to defense and passing. Now defensively, Whiteside is a better rim protector (he's obviously taller and longer) but I'm not sure that translates to overall better interior defense. Obviously defensive rebounding is a component of defense, so Whiteside has that going for him. But my thinking is that Nurkic is probably a better instinctive defender. I also think you need to weigh those DBPM numbers by the fact Nurkic played with much better defenders last season, on a better defensive team

I've been thinking that Nurkic's big advantage over Whiteside was how he fits with Dame and the Stotts offense, especially in the pick and roll. The Dame/Nurk two-man game was a thing of beauty last season, most of the time. But I was pretty surprised by the PnR/roll-man stats from NBA.com for Nurkic last season vs Hassan this season:

frequency: Nurkic 24.6%....Whiteside 31.4%
points/possession: Nurkic 1.13....Whiteside 1.17
eFG%: Nurkic 55.2%....Whiteside 61.5%
FT Frequency: Nurkic 18.9%....Whiteside 12.7%
turnover frequency: Nurkic 5.9%....Whiteside 8.2%
percentile: Nurkic 60.6%....Whiteside 60.9%

yeah, I would have bet that Nurkic would have a significant edge in these numbers; but he doesn't

I tend to think Nurkic is a better player, although I wouldn't give him as big an edge as many do, and obviously, the stats tell a story that conflicts with a Nurkic bias. Maybe Nurkic is getting too much credit, in minds, for being on a good team last year while Whiteside is getting too much blame for the current team. The Nurkic nostalgia might be too strong, and Whiteside's biggest issue is he isn't Nurkic. Nurkic had a lot more help inside last season than Whiteside had this season.

Nurkic's biggest edge is that he's more than 5 years younger than Whiteside, and has a lot of margin for improvement. Whiteside's upside is probably capped

Nice breakdown.....
The one thing I think Nurk is better at is guarding the paint overall. He may not block as many shots but that in itself isnt a true indicator of superb defense.
I know that Whiteside will often go for a block and leave the weak side open or the paint unprotected. Nurk just seemed to be more aware of the defending an area.

 

[kjironman1]

No question I want them both!
Cake and eat it too!

 

[B-Roy]

Nurk has much better defensive instincts and is always in a better position when defending shots. That is the biggest difference between the two. The way Nurk plays the drop pick and roll scheme is completely different than Hassan or any other big that has played with us. Nurk plays the gap between the ball handler and roller perfectly and is usually able to recover on plays when a pass is made to the roller. If the guard attacks, Nurk is always in position to defend the shot.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

about the rebounding, career numbers:

off reb rate: Nurkic 11.9%....Whiteside 14.1%
def reb rate: Nurkic 26.0%....Whiteside 34.5%
total reb rate: Nurkic 19.0%....Whiteside 24.3%

some other career numbers:

PER: Nurkic 19.1....Whiteside 24.2
TS%: Nurkic .529....Whiteside .594
FT Rate: Nurkic .368....Whiteside .379
block rate: Nurkic 4.5%....Whiteside 7.3%
def BPM: Nurkic 2.9%....Whiteside 2.3%

assist rate: Nurkic 13.2%....Whiteside 4.1% (Nurkic 17.9% last season; Hassan 7.1% this season)
turnover rate: Nurkic 15.7%....Whiteside 12.3% (you'd expect to see higher turnovers with more passing)

statistically, Whiteside has a big edge across the board until it comes to defense and passing. Now defensively, Whiteside is a better rim protector (he's obviously taller and longer) but I'm not sure that translates to overall better interior defense. Obviously defensive rebounding is a component of defense, so Whiteside has that going for him. But my thinking is that Nurkic is probably a better instinctive defender. I also think you need to weigh those DBPM numbers by the fact Nurkic played with much better defenders last season, on a better defensive team

Most of the first half of this post (as you noted) was career numbers. Wouldn't Portland numbers provide a more relevant comparison?

 

[wizenheimer]

Most of the first half of this post (as you noted) was career numbers. Wouldn't Portland numbers provide a more relevant comparison?

I mentioned it the 2nd post, but I think Nurkic would get too big a boost statistically because of playing on a much better roster last season than Whiteside is this season. IMO, Nurkic had a lot more help defensively and on the glass that Whiteside has. Melo has changed the dynamic a little, but he isn't nearly as good defensively or on the glass as Aminu was

 

[hoopsjock]

Nurkic turned it over a little more often than Whiteside does (like, half a turnover per game), but he gets like 2.5 times more assists. It's a pretty significant difference.

And Nurkic's overall defensive impact (ie, operating effectively within a scheme) is light years better than Whiteside. That is, IMO, the biggest difference between the two.

Oh look, @PtldPlatypus is being a bully again!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Oh look, @PtldPlatypus is being a bully again!

Bullying is my stock-in-trade.

 

[kjironman1]

Bullying is my stock-in-trade.

Is that how you get that Green "Global" banner?
I mean green around here is sarcasm right?

 

[wizenheimer]

Bullying is my stock-in-trade.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't know if I could possibly love that more.

 

[KingSpeed]

Ok. I feel like Whiteside is a little of a stat stuffing guy who doesn’t necessarily have a positive impact on the team. I don’t think he plays hard all the time. That’s just my opinion. I think Lillard plays well with Nurkic.

Lillard’s assists have gone up playing with Whiteside.

 

[JDC]

Lillard’s assists have gone up playing with Whiteside.

Think that's more of a function of playing less through the high and low post with Hassan.

Also used Nurk a lot more as a facilitator in our delay/5 out sets.

 

[HailBlazers]

Nurkic's overall defensive impact (ie, operating effectively within a scheme) is light years better than Whiteside. That is, IMO, the biggest difference between the two.

That's it for me too. Not something that can really be encapsulated by stats. He just has it. #BBeast

 

[BigGameDamian]

Still nope, but he's a good center.

The Blazers need to explore ALL avenues. This shouldn't be about fan favorites.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

The Blazers need to explore ALL avenues. This shouldn't be about fan favorites.

True. One avenue is the triple towers lineup-Nurkic, Whiteside & Collins.

 

[Blazers1977]

When Nurk and Collins come back, what is the rotation supposed to be?

I heard whiteside talking earlier this season and implying he would be the starter regardless of if both came back.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

When Nurk and Collins come back, what is the rotation supposed to be?

I heard whiteside talking earlier this season and implying he would be the starter regardless of if both came back.

Personally I think it's smarter to let Whiteside start the year and let Nurk play himself into it. Though his first game back I think they should start him for a brief stint, and make it a home game, just because the crowd would go nuts.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

removed

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'd appreciate it if we could keep jokes threatening people's livelihood off of the board. At least use a green font. I'm not one to censor really, I think people being allowed to speak their opinions is good so don't take this as anything personal, I won't delete this one.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'd appreciate it if we could keep jokes threatening people's livelihood off of the board. At least use a green font. I'm not one to censor really, I think people being allowed to speak their opinions is good so don't take this as anything personal, I won't delete this one.

Wow, after all he does in here you're going to allow him to threaten me simply because you think he's joking?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wow, after all he does in here you're going to allow him to threaten me simply because you think he's joking?

Do you honestly feel threatened...?

 

[hoopsjock]

Do you honestly feel threatened...?

Should that matter?

 

[Chris Craig]

Threatning fellow posters on here is not acceptable. Joking or not, don't do it. No fucking around with this. It is an offense that can get you banned. Fair warning.

 

[Blazers1977]

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'd appreciate it if we could keep jokes threatening people's livelihood off of the board. At least use a green font. I'm not one to censor really, I think people being allowed to speak their opinions is good so don't take this as anything personal, I won't delete this one.

I wouldn’t have the ability to threaten his livelihood if I was Steven A Smith. How could you have possibly
taken that comment seriously