<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry, but do you know what you're talking about? Steve Nash was league MVP. He helped turn around a dismal situation in Phoenix and turned them into a title contender. And, oh my, you know was there before him? That's right, Stephon Marbury. The man who has never led his team out of the first round, and you claim him to be the best PG in the league. I'm sorry, but before you say that, win. He didn't. Nash did. To be exact, he led his team to 60 wins (won twice when he was hurt I believe).</div>
First of all, Nash was in PG heaven. When Marbury was around, he had Stoudemire as a rookie and Marion. That?s it. He also did manage to get them to game 6 against the NBA champion Spurs. Joe Johnson dramatically improved and they also got Quentin Richardson after Marbury left along with an ever improving Amare. You can?t put this all on Stephon.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Next on that list is JKidd. Again, where was his team? That's right, the playoffs. Oh, and who did he replace in New Jersey? My lord, it was....drumroll please...Stephon Marbury. And once again, where did Marbury lead Jersey? NOWHERE. He never took em to the playoffs. Hell, I don't even think he hit 30 wins in Jersey. And what happens when Kidd comes in? They win 52 games and make the NBA Finals. So, I believe he is now knocked down to #3 on the list....for now.</div>
The Nets were in a constant rebuilding process when Marbury came in and the very next year in 2000-2001:
Marbury missed 15 games
Van Horn missed 33 games
Kenyon Martin missed 14 games (still rehabbing from his knee injury)
Kendal Gill missed 51 games
And when this happened, it was the same year they got Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles was healthy all season, acquired Todd MacCulloch, got Jason Collins (a decent role player), and a healthier Kenyon Martin.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Next player mentioned is Arenas. He is, yet another point guard, who made the playoffs this year, and for that matter, is sitting in the second round (for his unfortunacy though, it's against Miami). Granted this is his first year in the playoffs, he's also been around a lot less time than Stephon. Arenas, in only his second year in Washington (first healthy one), helped them to the #5 seed in East and a 2nd round berth now, while Marbury didn't win. Beyond that, he put great numbers all around and was an MVP candidate in my opinion. Also, in his last season in Golden State, he helped them make a push to the playoffs, only to fall short and finish 40-42. So, now, to me, Marbury is at least at #4....and still...potentially lower.</div>
It?s interesting how you mention the losses of Washington last season and yet, you still seem to forget Marbury?s misfortune in New Jersey. Also according to you, you can determine selfishness by some of the shots you take. Gilbert Arenas takes tons of bad shots and shoots on a less than stellar 43% from the field, and for every 5 assists he dishes out, he turns the ball over 3 times. Also what about him in the playoffs? Sure he averages 23 points, but he shoots the ball at 37% and 24% from behind the arc. He also takes about 20 shots per game! So he is a terrible PG in the playoffs who lead his team to the second round with the help of Chicago having two major injuries. Also, Golden State went 38-44 and were 7 games out of playoff contention.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now with Baron Davis. If I'm correct, the Warriors were dead before he came. Then, in the 28 games that he played in GS, they went 18-10. Compare that to New York's overall record for the year, it was only 15 less wins. So that tells me that Baron Davis, is indeed, better then Marbury. He's won in his career. He's led teams to the playoffs and actually escaped the first round. He single-handedly came in and turned around a left for dead Warriors team and got em to win 18 games in his 28 game tenure there. And you may be right, he is injury prone, but that means nothing. Just cause you get injured, doesn't mean it will continue. Take a look at Camby. Injury prone beyond any belief for a few years, and since then, he's had back to back seasons where he's appeared in over 66 games, including 72 (a career high), last season. You can get over the injury bug. It's possible. Another example is Vince Carter. After missing 61 games in two seasons, he's only missed 14 in these last two. Injury bugs can go away. That's not much of a worry right now if you're GS. They won with him, and that proves that he is an elite PG. Since Marbury came to NY, what have they done? A whole lot of nothing. In my opinion, Marbury isn't even close to the best point guard in the league. He's at best 5th behind Kidd, Nash, Davis, and Arenas. You overrate him beyond any belief. He's never won anything in his life, for that matter, every team he leaves becomes better once he's gone. That's not a good sign...unless you're planning on shipping him out. All in all though, Marbury is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the level of Nash or Kidd, and is still a ways behind Arenas and Davis.</div>
How can we determine how great someone is in 28 games? I don?t understand that. When Marbury first came to NY, the Knicks were on a little hot streak too, but we saw how that turned out. I remember when he came over, A season is
82 games not just 28. You yourself told me not to judge Crawford?s sophomore season because he missed 23 games and anything could happen in those additional 59 games. Now we can judge Baron Davis? performance? How do you know the Warriors weren?t on a hot streak? Anything could happen in those additional 54 games or in the rest of that
65.8% of the season. Also player success doesn?t necessarily determine a player. Some are just put into bad situations. What about Kevin Garnett? He recently got out the first round and Elton Brand still never made the playoffs. David Robinson didn?t have much playoff success until the arrival of Tim Duncan. Is McGrady not in the upper echelon of swingmen in the league? He never made it passed the first round? Players are put into different situations and Marbury has been unlucky throughout his entire career. Is this his fault?
Much of what you?re saying is based on some yearly progress and some even by 28 games! It?s interesting that Nash wasn?t doing this in Dallas, but he was doing it in Phoenix. It shows the type of system he?s in, not his prowess as a PG. Steve Nash at age 31 didn?t improve, he just had the right system. I?m sure if Marbury was in Phoenix with those kinds of players, he would be able to be the MVP too. The only one I?ll accept is Jason Kidd.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, I neglected this one, but I'd also put him behind Allen Iverson. Iverson was listed at the point guard this year mind you, and even though I find him overrated, he plays his heart and soul out every night and carried that team on his back to the playoffs. His supporting cast wasn't nearly as good as that of Marbury, however, he still got his team there. He willed his team in this year. Beyond that, he's a formere MVP and he's at least tasted what the NBA Finals were like. For that matter, he's tasted what a playoff series win is like as well. And, also, he's been an MVP. Three things Marbury hasn't done. So, that then will bump him down to #6 on my list, and probably won't go any lower then that. He's a career loser that puts up good stats, and quite frankly, wins are more important that numbers.</div>
Yeah, he?s
listed as a PG this year. If that?s the case, than yes, Marbury will be behind Iverson. The Knicks were injured pretty much the whole season so of course he?ll have a better team. Marbury puts up great numbers and has been in bad situations his whole career. How can you blame that on him? As I said earlier, KG and Brand were/are career loser and put up good stats.
