It's going to be difficult to make trades

[maxiep]

Writing in the Batum post on what a deal Nico is compared to his contract, it occured to me that we really only have two massively overpaid players: Brandon Roy and Greg Oden. And that's no one's fault; they'd be deals if they were healthy. You could make a case for Camby, but a quality center makes $10MM. But the bottom line is that every one of our players either earns their money or are underpaid.

One of the tools under the current CBA is having players that are overpaid as well as underpaid. It enables you to better match salaries and talent. For example, if we move Nico, we'd probably like to bring in a $6MM-$9MM player in return. But who do we send out along with Batum? We'd have to send out an effective player like Miller or completely empty our bench.

That was the beauty of the Wallace deal; we had the pieces to give CHA what they wanted. In future deals where everyone is fairly priced, it's going to be much more difficult to make trades under the current 25% +$100K salary collar in the CBA as you can only acquire underpaid or fairly paid assets in return, which limits your universe of players from which to choose.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. Thoughts?

 

[e_blazer]

If the Blazers were looking to get a quality established player, they'd probably have to send out either Miller or Camby along with Batum in order to make the salaries match. I don't have a problem with either one being included in a deal as long as they bring back the right pieces. Camby would be hard to part with until we know what's happening with Oden, but if the target is another big man, say Nene, then I'd be fine with it. Miller could be included as long as the returning player is a starting PG.

I also think there's a chance that Batum could be included in a trade for a young PG or involved in a move to trade up in the draft. Neither of those types of deals would necessarily require involving a player with a big contract.

 

[handiman]

That's where you just have to hope a star player is available and trade three good players on value-priced contracts in return.

 

[RR7]

I think this offseason, Cho will begin to mold the team to what he wants it to look like, and I think that will include moving Camby and Miller's contracts in the process. Not that they aren't effective players at all. I think keeping them around last season was a sort of compromise to Allen to make the playoffs, and he will move them for younger, potentially more expensive pieces.

I think we will be one of the more active teams leading up to the draft and new CBA because of my feeling Allen is still willing to take on more salary, and will, for the right deals. I feel he'll either take on overpaid players, younger, for a draft pick, or for another player. basically, a team using a decent player to move a bad contract.

And if it is a pick and player, or player and player, I think either we'd look to use the pick on a PG, and get an overpaid big, or vice versa, get an overpaid PG and look to use th epick on a big. And same with players. Overpaid big, young PG, or overpaid PG, young big.

Now that Cleveland got a lotto pick out of Baron Davis, would they trade Davis and Varejao for Camby and Miller? I think we downgrade some at PG, but get a much younger big. I don't like Davis much, but would do that deal as the price of getting Varejao.

Would Atlanta do Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague for Andre Miller, to get out from Williams' deal? Maybe not. Again, just throwing out the type of deals I could see being looked at or pursued.

 

[andalusian]

Until the CBA is finalized and you know the rules - everything is in the air, imho.

 

[RR7]

Until the CBA is finalized and you know the rules - everything is in the air, imho.

I think the uncertainty of the new CBA could be a big factor in helping us, because of the fear other owners/teams might have of it.

 

[glazeduck]

Would Atlanta do Marvin Williams and Jeff Teague for Andre Miller, to get out from Williams' deal? Maybe not. Again, just throwing out the type of deals I could see being looked at or pursued.

I think people need to move on from Teague. He was a great value for ATL in the late lottery and has met or exceeded his already high expectations, even more so in the playoffs. With Hinrich being their other PG, it would seem that they're going to hang on to Teague as long as he's happy there.

 

[RR7]

I think people need to move on from Teague. He was a great value for ATL in the late lottery and has met or exceeded his already high expectations, even more so in the playoffs. With Hinrich being their other PG, it would seem that they're going to hang on to Teague as long as he's happy there.

Probably so. But the way they have done business in the past, i can't see them being super thrilled about having Williams, Horford, Smith and Johnson all on decent sized deals. Williams is the least productive and useful of the bunch, and they might look to add incentive to move him. Not saying I am super enamored with Teague, just a possibility.

 

[e_blazer]

Until the CBA is finalized and you know the rules - everything is in the air, imho.

Agreed, except for deals that get done around the draft.

 

[lakeblazer]

If the Blazers were looking to get a quality established player, they'd probably have to send out either Miller or Camby along with Batum in order to make the salaries match. I don't have a problem with either one being included in a deal as long as they bring back the right pieces. Camby would be hard to part with until we know what's happening with Oden, but if the target is another big man, say Nene, then I'd be fine with it. Miller could be included as long as the returning player is a starting PG.

I also think there's a chance that Batum could be included in a trade for a young PG or involved in a move to trade up in the draft. Neither of those types of deals would necessarily require involving a player with a big contract.

I think e_blazer has the right idea, batum could be moved as pat of a draft trade. One example as long as Sacramento does not get the first pick would be Batum, A. Johnson and our first round selection for Jason Thompson and their first round selection, probably #5 or #6, which would give us the ability to grab one of the coveted guards and receive a big body that can easily be used as either a back-up PF or C

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

If there is any other way to make roster moves - than trading Batum - I'd like us to do that first. I really think he's going to be a special player in a couple of years. He shows glimpses now of Pippen, he just needs confidence. Otherwise, yes, I'd support moving him with another contract to get our PGOTF and a b/u bigman.

 

[Draco]

I think the uncertainty of the new CBA could be a big factor in helping us, because of the fear other owners/teams might have of it.

I really like this mindset, we need to be aggressive and try to build up more assets. If we can do another Gerald Wallace type of deal or get a high level prospect party from taking on payroll I would love it. The Wallace deal was a slam dunk, we probably won't be able to get the same home run quality but we can follow the same premise, trade for a prime veteran on a larger deal for young talent (draft picks) and shorter contracts. Miller's contract may be especially valuable since it can be traded for then cut ala' Ericka Dampier. If we can't find solid value for Camby or Miller then yes they are worth keeping but the goal should be to get a player closer to 30 than keeping guys approaching 40. With Wallace on the roster and being our second best player, Miller's lack of outside shooting is a larger detriment to this team.

If there is some sort of hard cap we can worry about dealing with it then. Dallas/LA/Orland/Boston/San Antonio/Memphis/Atlanta all have much larger longer payrolls than us even with Roy's max deal. There will be some sort of a way to keep franchise players.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I think e_blazer has the right idea, batum could be moved as pat of a draft trade. One example as long as Sacramento does not get the first pick would be Batum, A. Johnson and our first round selection for Jason Thompson and their first round selection, probably #5 or #6, which would give us the ability to grab one of the coveted guards and receive a big body that can easily be used as either a back-up PF or C

Well, I wonder where Batum would go if he was just now eligible for this weak draft, he is still just about as young as most of them. Would he possibly go in the top three? And a player like Jason Thompson can be picked up on a vet's minimum. That's how I would look at a trade like that.

 

[BBert]

At this point we need a top 3 PG more than a top 3 SF who plays behind Gerald Wallace. As much as I love (love) Batum, if he could get us that PG, I'd have to consider it. Especially if a backup PF came along with the deal. Picking at 5 or 6 though, we'd have to see who is available in what everyone keeps saying is such a weak draft.

 

[Ed O]

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud. Thoughts?

I think that you MIGHT be systematically overrating the Blazers players. If we're getting a lot of bang for our buck, and we're spending a lot of bucks, then we should be getting a lot of bang, right? More than a first round exit.

I think a team is better off with players that are all undervalued... and then to have a high total salary. The team would be a good freaking team, and could afford to make a slightly backwards move in terms of talent to get superior fit. Or youth. Or experience. Whatever they need.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and having a throw-in big salary is nice, but it's a nice consolation prize. I'd prefer to spend all of our money on guys who earn it and then bite the bullet and move some value when it makes sense.

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't think Camby is a "quality center" in this league anymore. Not worth 10 million.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I don't think Camby is a "quality center" in this league anymore. Not worth 10 million.

The silver lining: He is a big expiring deal we could use at the deadline.

 

[Kaydow]

I don't think Camby is a "quality center" in this league anymore. Not worth 10 million.

There was only ONE other "Center" in the entire league that averaged more than 10 rebounds/game this season (D. Howard) He misses a lot of games, and he doesn't contribute much offensively, but he's still a "quality center". I know the Blazers were 16-7 w/o him, but 15 of those 23 games were against teams with losing records. There just aren't that many good big men in the league these days.

 

[Draco]

There was only ONE other "Center" in the entire league that averaged more than 10 rebounds/game this season (D. Howard) He misses a lot of games, and he doesn't contribute much offensively, but he's still a "quality center". I know the Blazers were 16-7 w/o him, but 15 of those 23 games were against teams with losing records. There just aren't that many good big men in the league these days.

Camby was great early on in the season but he never looked the same to me after he came back from surgery.