It's not Olshey

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e_blazer said:
$10 mil per year for a young mid-career 7-footer is nothing in this league. By the end of his 4 year contract, it's going to look like peanuts. GMs and coaches around the league certainly know his shortcomings as a player, but I'd bet that a lot of them are going to also see his shooting and athletic ability as indicators that maybe he can succeed in a different situation than he's been put into here in Portland.
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They guy can't play. We're in what, year five? How much better is he likely to get? He looks like the same spastic marshmallow he was when he entered the league.
 
Minstrel said:
The problem with "not losing assets for nothing" is that they cease to be assets as soon you massively overpay them to avoid losing them for nothing.
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Massive overpay is a definition constantly changing though.

Most of us shit our pants a couple years ago at rolo getting 13 million a year, and now that contract would be great.
 
Nikolokolus said:
They guy can't play. We're in what, year five? How much better is he likely to get? He looks like the same spastic marshmallow he was when he entered the league.
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Here's a list of mid-level centers and their salaries:

ac8cd02242.jpg


Most of those guys are old and likely to be out of the league in 3-4 years. I'm not saying that Meyers alone is going to get much value in return. I think that the Blazers will have to eat someone else's bad contract and that Meyers will work as filler to make salaries match.
 
Minstrel said:
The problem with "not losing assets for nothing" is that they cease to be assets as soon you massively overpay them to avoid losing them for nothing.
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Which one is overpayed? Leonard is getting paid like a bench player. Crabbe is overpayed only because of his current role, but there are teams out there that would have no issue making him a starter where his contract would look standard. Harkless is a steal. So who's overpayed again?
 
e_blazer said:
Here's a list of mid-level centers and their salaries:

ac8cd02242.jpg


Most of those guys are old and likely to be out of the league in 3-4 years. I'm not saying that Meyers alone is going to get much value in return. I think that the Blazers will have to eat someone else's bad contract and that Meyers will work as filler to make salaries match.
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Eating bad contracts might be the way he moves, but that still doesn't change the fact that Meyers is a net negative asset; a pile of crap that has to be dumped, and not a net positive asset that other teams find desirable, ergo an "albatross."

Definition of albatross
plural
albatross
or
albatrosses
  1. 1: any of a family (Diomedeidae) of large web-footed seabirds that have long slender wings, are excellent gliders, and include the largest seabirds

  2. 2a : something that causes persistent deep concern or anxietyb : something that greatly hinders accomplishment : encumbrance
 
Nikolokolus said:
Eating bad contracts might be the way he moves, but that still doesn't change the fact that Meyers is a net negative asset; a pile of crap that has to be dumped, and not a net positive asset that other teams find desirable, ergo an "albatross."
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True, but sometimes having an albatross as a salary placeholder is better than having no salary room at all.
 
e_blazer said:
$10 mil per year for a young mid-career 7-footer is nothing in this league. By the end of his 4 year contract, it's going to look like peanuts. GMs and coaches around the league certainly know his shortcomings as a player, but I'd bet that a lot of them are going to also see his shooting and athletic ability as indicators that maybe he can succeed in a different situation than he's been put into here in Portland.
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Even for one that averages 16 minutes per game? His salary is in the top 20th percentile in the league, so no, it's not "nothing." Where are you getting your sense of perspective on this?
 
Sinobas said:
Even for one that averages 16 minutes per game? His salary is in the top 20th percentile in the league, so no, it's not "nothing." Where are you getting your sense of perspective on this?
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What Meyers has averaged in PT this season as he comes back from shoulder surgery isn't really relevant to the discussion. There are a lot of people around here who are on the Nerlens Noel bandwagon and how many minutes a game is he averaging? I posted a list of centers making in the ball park of what Meyers is. Most of them are ancient and/or injury prone. The Blazers are probably going to have to make a deal where they're taking back someone else's bad contract and Meyers is just a part of the deal, but at least he will provide for the opportunity to match salaries.
 
Sinobas said:
Even for one that averages 16 minutes per game? His salary is in the top 20th percentile in the league, so no, it's not "nothing." Where are you getting your sense of perspective on this?
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Bigs get paid. Thats what it is.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I can see keeping our players but our big FA signing is a bench player is a just sad.
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Not going to argue that one. I had hopes that Turner would provide a consistent second ball-handler/mid-range scorer, but he's been so inconsistent this year that the deal looks like a major bust.
 
Sinobas said:
Even for one that averages 16 minutes per game? His salary is in the top 20th percentile in the league, so no, it's not "nothing." Where are you getting your sense of perspective on this?
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Such a flawed thing to use in an argument. Let's see what everyone's contract looks like post new salary cap. Most guys in the league signed contracts before that, so of course Leonards is going to look bigger comparatively.
 
I'd like to add that while people are rightly pissed at where the Blazers are at right now, the schedule has been a huge factor in what's gone on lately. Tonight will be the 10th game of a stretch where 8 were played on the road and the 2 home games were back-to-backs. I'd like to say a heart-felt "fuck you" to the NBA schedulers.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I can see keeping our players but our big FA signing is a bench player is a just sad.
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Lol at the people that shit all over those of us that even questioned the signing.

Shout out to @B-Roy for agreeing with me when the signing happened.
 
Scalma said:
Which one is overpayed? Leonard is getting paid like a bench player. Crabbe is overpayed only because of his current role, but there are teams out there that would have no issue making him a starter where his contract would look standard. Harkless is a steal. So who's overpayed again?
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I don't agree with you that Crabbe would be a good starter. He doesn't do anything well except spot-up shooting. He's not a passer, he's a mediocre rebounder for his size, he can't create for himself or others and here's the big thing: his defense is absolutely atrocious. He's currently sporting a career-worst 118 Defensive Rating and the eye test bears that out, IMO. He's paid like a good starter (an above average player) and, in my opinion, he's a below-average reserve.

Leonard is being paid like a good reserve and he isn't one. He's not even a bad reserve--he's basically a wasted roster spot right now. His offensive numbers have been dropping year over year and his defensive numbers are going in the wrong direction. His Offensive Rating the past three years (counting this one): 117 -> 107 -> 97. A 97 Offensive Rating is horrible. You could survive that in a reserve if he were an ace defender but not only do we know he's not, the numbers suggest he's about as bad as Crabbe. Lenoard is sitting at a 115 Defensive Rating (and that, too, is a career-worst). Leonard's scoring efficiency has also gone down year over year the past three years (again, counting this year).

Nik may have been mean when he said Leonard is a "pile of crap that has to be dumped," but he wasn't inaccurate.

I agree that Harkless has been an excellent re-signing. But Crabbe, Leonard and Turner (not a re-signing, but still part of Olshey's "asset collection") are absolutely killing the team's payroll for not just nothing--for actually negative value. This past off-season would be the biggest reason to fire Olshey (not that I'm advocating it, but he made the strongest argument for it with this past off-season).
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Massive overpay is a definition constantly changing though.
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That's true, but the players themselves are going to have to improve quite a bit before even changing salary landscape makes these deals (Crabbe/Leonard/Turner) decent, in my opinion.
 
I swear if I see one more person say Crabbe is just a spot up shooter like it's somehow a negative..I swear.

And by the way he's shown flashes of more. Was excellent in pick and roll with Ed Davis last year. Teams will see that there's more in Crabbes toolbox than what he's shown. They wouldn't be trading for what he is, but what he can become in their respective system. Brooklyn was going to make him a featured scorer. It's naive to think they're the only ones who feel that way.
 
Minstrel said:
That's true, but the players themselves are going to have to improve quite a bit before even changing salary landscape makes these deals (Crabbe/Leonard/Turner) decent, in my opinion.
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Man, that is such a musical post. I can feel it in my heart. Well, actually, the money being paid to those three guys makes me feel like hurling, but your post was magical. ;)
 
Scalma said:
At least not yet. Hear me out

- He knew he needed a rim protector. He pursued Whiteside, who would've been perfect. He chose to stay in Miami (MIAMI) for more money. Can't blame Olshey for that.

- After Whiteside was off the board, and Parsons passed, he signed Turner. He could've overplayed for a big man like Mozgov and Biyombo, but chose to go with Turner, knowing he's a better player than both those guys, and thus more of an asset. You think Turner is untradeable? Who the hell would want Biyombo?

- He kept all of his own players instead of letting them go for nothing. Is Crabbe overpayed? Maybe. Probably. Would he be overpayed if he were a starter? Not with the way the NBA is headed. Is he starter material? Stats say he is. Not only is he starter material, Portland plays better the more minutes and shot attempts he gets. Harkless is a bargain and Leonards contract is that of a bench player. All three are moveable assets despite what some may think.

- He made a relatively safe, short term gamble on Ezeli. It didn't work out, but now his contract becomes another moveable asset.

- We still need a rim protector but the trade market is shaping up to be A LOT better than the free agent market after the Whitesides went off the table. It's looking like a buyers market. Olshey has ammo. He could even be in the conversation for someone like Cousins if he wanted to be, especially if the Kings hold onto him until the offseason.

In summary, I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't believe Olshey kept this group together because he believed that it's a championship contender, but rather because he didn't want to lose his assets for nothing, and he didn't want to overpay for centers just because he needed one. He chose the patient route. The puzzle isn't finished. Let's see what it looks like when it is, and then we can call for his dumb stupid shit for brains head. Thank you.
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Olshey failed to bring too free agents like Whiteside to Portland. Knowing he wasn't going to get a top tier player, and jumped to second tier and offered Turner a bloated contract that he couldn't refuse before other Gms could get down the list to him.

Crabbe and Meyers contracts are going to be harder to move than you think. Their play especially Meyers has been atrocious this year, so their stock is falling. Ezeli as well will not net the Blazers much...if we can even trade him as he is injured....its going to take some craftiness on Olshey's part to make a move happen.

Olshey keep this team together because he didn't have a better choice after free agency. He hedged his bet that the young blazers team from last year that fought hard and made the second round would show up again this season, and with Turner now on board, we could only be better right? Wrong. Teams have figured us out. Our lack of defense his horrendous. Our lackluster play his half hearted at best. Even Dame has called bullshit. Olshey a few cards away from a full house took a risk after the flop and instead the turn (turner) didn't pay off, and the river (Ezeli) which he had high hopes on failed too, leaving him with a pair of aces, meanwhile across the table Bob Myers pulled a Royal Flush
 
Scalma said:
I swear if I see one more person say Crabbe is just a spot up shooter like it's somehow a negative..I swear.

And by the way he's shown flashes of more. Was excellent in pick and roll with Ed Davis last year. Teams will see that there's more in Crabbes toolbox than what he's shown. They wouldn't be trading for what he is, but what he can become in their respective system. Brooklyn was going to make him a featured scorer. It's naive to think they're the only ones who feel that way.
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How many players has Portland had that "showed flashes" and then never became anything other than a role player. The Nets were going to take a gamble on Crabbe because they had no other choice. No other players wanted to come near there. He was the best they could get, and he only signed the offer sheet to gain leverage with Blazers, knowing they would match.
 
Nets are rebuilding. Crabbe fit where they're at. Of course no star player like Durant is gonna want to go a rebuilding team.

And I actually believe Crabbe genuinely wanted to go there. Why wouldn't he? Get to be a featured player and live in New York City, while establishing himself in the biggest market in the NBA.
 
When @HCP predicted 23 wins last season, I though he was way underestimating that we could win with Dame and 4 guys who hustled on defense alone. That CJ turned into a star in his own right effectively negated the porous defense we have at the 2 guard positions.

We could still win a lot of games and give teams a hard time (at least) in the playoffs if we played defense.

That is on Stotts, though I still really like him as a coach.

He started Vonleh much of the season last year and we won lots of games. At least a better winning % than this year. Vonleh may not look like much offensive stats-wise, but he does have good games and the rest he does bring height, agility, and more defense than anyone else we could put out there.

I understand that you don't diss Aminu or Mo by not starting one of them, but maybe the team's performance dictates we do need some kind of change to turn things around.

Right now the team looks like it's being coached by Paul Westhead. Westhead did OK when he had Kareem and Magic, but really sucked when he didn't.

We don't have a Kareem by any stretch, and we certainly don't have a Magic either.

The L*kers lost in the 1st round in Westhead's first full season, and he was fired after a 7-4 start to the next. Riley came in and took them to the championships that followed.
 
Scalma said:
I swear if I see one more person say Crabbe is just a spot up shooter like it's somehow a negative..I swear.

And by the way he's shown flashes of more. Was excellent in pick and roll with Ed Davis last year. Teams will see that there's more in Crabbes toolbox than what he's shown. They wouldn't be trading for what he is, but what he can become in their respective system. Brooklyn was going to make him a featured scorer. It's naive to think they're the only ones who feel that way.
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Brooklyn is so terrible that Sean Kilpatrick is one of their featured scorers and he'd be hard-pressed to be a 6th man on any decent team. I don't see their desperation in pursuing Crabbe (and Tyler Johnson) as particularly accurate gauges of that guy's value.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Letting some of them go would have been unpopular, but a better long-term strategy than saddling the team with albatross contracts on players that aren't producting (Meyers I'm looking at you). Outside of that, sign-and-trades might have been worked out, but right now the supposed "ammo" we've "stockpiled" is in pretty short supply.
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much of our "ammo" that was purchased this past summer are blanks
 
Regardless of how well or poorly the guys that were re-signed are performing, if NO had let them walk, we'd have much worse players in their place.

We'd have a vet minimum salary guy in Leonard's spot, because that's all the money NO would have had to spend to replace him. Same goes for all the rest. NO could re-sign our guys because of Bird exceptions.

NO had $25M or so in cap space and nobody but Turner seemed to want to take it.
 
Denny Crane said:
Regardless of how well or poorly the guys that were re-signed are performing, if NO had let them walk, we'd have much worse players in their place.

We'd have a vet minimum salary guy in Leonard's spot, because that's all the money NO would have had to spend to replace him. Same goes for all the rest. NO could re-sign our guys because of Bird exceptions.

NO had $25M or so in cap space and nobody but Turner seemed to want to take it.
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An offseason of signing Cole Aldrich and retaining only Harkless and Henderson would arguably have this team significantly better than it presently is, and most certainly at a lower price tag.
 
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