It’s Time to Start Over...

[Gronk Brady]

After dropping down to 9th seed last night, I think it’s time to move on from the McLillard experiment and start the rebuild process. Sitting at 9th after having the easiest schedule in the NBA to this points, with a healthy roster and full training camp for Nurkic, there are no more excuses. We have seen a big enough sample size to know this will not work. We need to sell high on Lillard and CJ before it’s too late. Build around Collins, Nurkic, Pat... get some lotto picks in what should be a very talented group in the top 10. I don’t want to have to rebuild but it’s the sad reality. We have the toughest second half schedule and will not keep up with teams ahead of us. I don’t see a trade that can turn the season around. And even more so than just record, they just don’t play well... I mean dead last in NBA in assist?! This is a failed experiment.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

-1

 

[TBpup]

I don't think they would play much worse without CJ and i think they could get valuable assets for him.

Biggest win of the season was without him AND on the road.

 

[Blazinaway]

I agree overall but would likelt start with trading CJ and see where that leads

 

[Pinwheel1]

After dropping down to 9th seed last night, I think it’s time to move on from the McLillard experiment and start the rebuild process. Sitting at 9th after having the easiest schedule in the NBA to this points, with a healthy roster and full training camp for Nurkic, there are no more excuses. We have seen a big enough sample size to know this will not work. We need to sell high on Lillard and CJ before it’s too late. Build around Collins, Nurkic, Pat... get some lotto picks in what should be a very talented group in the top 10. I don’t want to have to rebuild but it’s the sad reality. We have the toughest second half schedule and will not keep up with teams ahead of us. I don’t see a trade that can turn the season around. And even more so than just record, they just don’t play well... I mean dead last in NBA in assist?! This is a failed experiment.

Hilarious

 

[Gronk Brady]

Hilarious

How so? You like being mediocre?

 

[Rhal]

http://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi yea we are 17th in SoS so not sure where your getting this we have the easiest schedule and i'm not sure where you are getting that we have the hardest schedule rest of the way. Harder compared to what? Its not the hardest in the league or even the western conference.

 

[Pinwheel1]

How so? You like being mediocre?

Oh you were serious? Building around Nurk, Collins, and Pat? Well we certainly would not be mediocre.
We would be a fucking laughing stock for 3-4 years. Trading a team's best players when they are still in their prime seldom works. Unless you think our record of drafting players in the lottery has a great track record.

Yes this team needs some changes. But we are already rebuilding with Nurk and Collins...along with Dame and CJ. If you don't think the process is quick enough, then hitting rock bottom will take a hell of lot longer.

Lets get them a SF, and a bench, and see how that works first.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Oh you were serious? Building around Nurk, Collins, and Pat? Well we certainly would not be mediocre.
We would be a fucking laughing stock for 3-4 years. Trading a team's best players when they are still in their prime seldom works. Unless you think our record of drafting players in the lottery has a great track record.

Yes this team needs some changes. But we are already rebuilding with Nurk and Collins...along with Dame and CJ. If you don't think the process is quick enough, then hitting rock bottom will take a hell of lot longer.

Lets get them a SF, and a bench, and see how that works first.

There is no way to improve by keeping McLillard as the core of the team. You trash all the role players then expect to be able to trade them for an upgrade. This team is what it is... an 8th seed at best. And being the laughingstock for a couple years may net us a real star. Or you can keep rolling out McLillard for the next 3-4 years, win nothing, and then end at same conclusion of rebuilding... only waiting 3-4 more years.

 

[Pinwheel1]

There is no way to improve by keeping McLillard as the core of the team. You trash all the role players then expect to be able to trade them for an upgrade. This team is what it is... an 8th seed at best. And being the laughingstock for a couple years may net us a real star. Or you can keep rolling out McLillard for the next 3-4 years, win nothing, and then end at same conclusion of rebuilding... only waiting 3-4 more years.

Yeah keyword in your post is "may" net us a star. We also could just as easy find a star in the draft..... at 14. (without tearing the team apart) Either way it takes a little luck. Kind of like the Patriots when they drafted Brady at ......199.

 

[THE HCP]

Build around Collins, Nurkic, Pat...

Sir, what you are suggesting here, hasn’t succefully taken place in the NBA since the mid to late 80s!!!! The odds are against this working sir.

 

[illmatic99]

Yeah keyword in your post is "may" net us a star. We also could just as easy find a star in the draft..... at 14. (without tearing the team apart) Either way it takes a little luck. Kind of like the Patriots when they drafted Brady at ......199.

Or Donovan Mitchell at 13.

Oops.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The Blazers need to locker room fight themselves.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sir, what you are suggesting here, hasn’t succefully taken place in the NBA since the mid to late 80s!!!! The odds are against this working sir.

Ha--I didn't even notice the common characteristic on the guys he listed until your comment.

That's pretty funny.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Sir, what you are suggesting here, hasn’t succefully taken place in the NBA since the mid to late 80s!!!! The odds are against this working sir.

So is your solution to not even try and settle for being mediocre? At least having hope and watching young players develope keeps interest as a fan.... this team centered around McLillard has no chance at competing and is not even fun to watch anymore. The only games I have enjoyed this year were with Shabazz starting at PG... the team ran like a well oiled machine. Other than that, watching McLillard go one on three and jack up 20 shots each has gotten stale. The are 27 years old... this is who they are.

 

[THE HCP]

Ha--I didn't even notice the common characteristic on the guys he listed until your comment.

That's pretty funny.

Did you not notice we had our Hootie and the Blowfish lineup out there at the end of the Minny game.
Collins, Layman, Patty, Meyers and Noah

 

[Blazinaway]

So is your solution to not even try and settle for being mediocre? At least having hope and watching young players develope keeps interest as a fan.... this team centered around McLillard has no chance at competing and is not even fun to watch anymore. The only games I have enjoyed this year were with Shabazz starting at PG... the team ran like a well oiled machine. Other than that, watching McLillard go one on three and jack up 20 shots each has gotten stale. The are 27 years old... this is who they are.

I agree, I can't even make it thru half of a taped game anymore, the worst Blazer Bball in a long time

 

[julius]

How so? You like being mediocre?

You ask if he likes being mediocre, and then you present building around those three?

 

[Gronk Brady]

You ask if he likes being mediocre, and then you present building around those three?

Because a 20 year old, 23 year old, and 24 year old are finished products? I don’t understand your point... it’s called a rebuild for the future

 

[Blazinaway]

You ask if he likes being mediocre, and then you present building around those three?

call it mediocre, lousy, terrible. If we rebuild/blow it up that is where we'd be at for a while whoever is left if we traded Lillard/CJ. Can't fathom "rebuilding" around Pat, but Collins and maybe Nurk are guys we would possibly keep as young guys with upside. Also who we'd "rebuild" around would like likely be draft picks and/or young players acquired (Markele Fultz for example) if we traded Dame or CJ.

 

[THE HCP]

Because a 20 year old, 23 year old, and 24 year old are finished products? I don’t understand your point... it’s called a rebuild for the future

You’re losing cred with this one brother.

 

[THE HCP]

call it mediocre, lousy, terrible. If we rebuild/blow it up that is where we'd be at for a while whoever is left if we traded Lillard/CJ. Can't fathom "rebuilding" around Pat, but Collins and maybe Nurk are guys we would possibly keep as young guys with upside. Also who we'd "rebuild" around would like likely be draft picks and/or young players acquired (Markele Fultz for example) if we traded Dame or CJ.

I don’t think J is saying not to start a rebuild......he’s questioning the players this guy said to rebuild around.

 

[Gronk Brady]

You’re losing cred with this one brother.

So a 7’ PF/C who is 20 years old and plays both ends of the court, and picked 10th in the draft is not someone to build around? Or a 7’ Center who had 2 games of 30 points and 20 rebounds in a 20 game span last year, and is only 23 is not some one to build around? How am I losing cred?

 

[42N8Bounce]

No, please.

It's hard to find talent like Dame and CJ. Let alone quality individuals like Dame and CJ. Those guys represent Portland well. Keep 'em as long as they'll stay.

The Blazers are currently tied for 8th in a loaded Western Conference, and we're above 500. Yes we've had a 3 game losing streak (all on the road), but now is not the time to throw in the towel on this team.

It's easy to say 'blow it up', but to do that you have to find willing trade partners and get good value back for your assets. The Blazers have a lot of good trade pieces in Shabazz, Vonleh, Harkless, and Davis. Keep looking for that value consolidation trade to upgrade at SF and/or PF.

We're the 2nd youngest team in the NBA at 24.9. We've got Nurk who's only 23, and Collins at 20. The future looks bright. No way I want to 'blow it up' and hope for the lottery to save us.

"Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment, not investment purposes."

 

[illmatic99]

So a 7’ PF/C who is 20 years old and plays both ends of the court, and picked 10th in the draft is not someone to build around? Or a 7’ Center who had 2 games of 30 points and 20 rebounds in a 20 game span last year, and is only 23 is not some one to build around? How am I losing cred?

I think your logic is flawed.

Dame is a top 20 player right now.
CJ is a top 30 player right now.

Is there any hope that Nurk and Collins will ever get to that level? Or higher? If you don't think they'll ever get to this level, then what's the point of building around them?

I think the more sound argument is that we haven't truly built a compatible roster with Dame/CJ to maximize their skills while minimizing their deficiencies. This roster Neil has put together after Aldridge left has been a collection of (now, overpaid) misfits.

 

[tlongII]

We should not trade Dame or CJ. They are elite talents. We need some help at small forward and Stotts needs to play the guys that will be cornerstones in the future. That is not Aminu.

 

[BlayZa]

we are kinda just muddling around in that 'make it to the playoffs, goodbye after round 1' zone.

i dunno what the answer is tbh, we have a bunch of solid players, but we are a very small back court, and have a pretty inconsistent front court. sometimes thats gonna hurt.

i think we can get away with the dame/cj combo if we had a legit SF to take some of the pressure off on both ends of the court. then just double down on defense in PF/C and hope 1-2-3 produces enough most nights to put us in with a chance.

i really like shabazz, and i really wish cj and dame were inverted positions on the team and .

 

[Pinwheel1]

Also who we'd "rebuild" around would like likely be draft picks and/or young players acquired (Markele Fultz for example) if we traded Dame or CJ.

Good example of what I am afraid might happen, drafting or trading for guys guys like Fultz or D'Angelo Russel with our top picks. Players like that are OK, but I can't see them making us any more satisfied.

I have been on the message boards for almost 30 years. I am trying to remember how many Blazer players during that time frame we have not crucified. Fuck we even wanted to trade Clyde in 1987....for crap.

 

[Gronk Brady]

We should not trade Dame or CJ. They are elite talents. We need some help at small forward and Stotts needs to play the guys that will be cornerstones in the future. That is not Aminu.

You don’t make any sense... if the surrounding talent is so bad how do you expect to make trades to get better players? Stars are the ones responsible for team play, not the fringe players... you are making excuses for them.

 

[illmatic99]

The thing that's concerning is Neil seems to be in perpetual asset acquisition mode. When will he actually build a team?

He blew his capspace on Turner because he felt he HAD to. It was an opportunity cost move as he'd lose the FA space in the coming summer. Turner is a horrible fit. He did the same with AC/Moe/Meyers. These weren't players that he kept to be future cornerstones with Dame/CJ-- rather, they were "assets" he intended to keep only to move in future deals. We don't need to surmise this, he actually has said as much. Unfortunately, that hasn't worked out with the reduced cap and these players regressing and Neil has been unable to turn these supposed assets into anything of significance.

Nurkic was the first piece that actually complemented these guys skill wise, and he fell into Neil's lap in a trade that was made to create cap flexibility. Let's not suddenly believe that he targeted Nurk and found him as our CotF. And I seriously question whether he feels the same about Collins. Zach screams of a pick that Neil made for another team in a deal that fell through (Indiana, anyone?)

With this history, I'm wary of whether Neil actually knows what it takes to build a playoff team, rather than just going on and on collecting assets for (what he believes is) cheap.