JAKE LAYMAN!

[Boob-No-More]

I agree with everything except replacing the coach. This theoretical lineup is pretty much designed for a Terry Stotts offense IMO. Another coach might want a entirely different style.

Not necessarily a new head coach, but how about an actual fucking big man coach? Shit, if I was Paul Allen, I'd toss a half million, or even a million, if that's what it takes, at each of Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing to spend three months this summer working with Meyers Leonard, Noah Vonleh and Mason Pumlee (or whoever we get to replace him) working on actual big man skills. Have each coach spend a month with each player and rotate all three coaches through all three players.

We have already invested so much money in these players (and are looking at possibly investing a LOT more). Why not spend a small fraction of that actually trying to make them better? Yeah, I know the traditional NBA big man is dead, but basic fundamental skills like boxing out, rebounding, setting picks, playing defense and being an actual damn scoring threat in the paint, are all still valuable skills to have that would make these players, and our team, so much better.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

A year for some rookies, 2 years for others.

Smart organizations tend to be patient and develop their young talent knowing that the jump to the NBA is a big one. Of course they are also smart enough to draft the right player and to cut them loose if they were wrong. I think Layman is a keeper at this point, at least until he can build real trade value.

I'm not saying we should cut Layman loose anytime soon. We've got him locked up for two and a half more seasons (with 1.5 of those being guaranteed). Might as well see how he develops. I''m also not saying he can't improve. What I am saying is he's not close to being an NBA rotation player now, nor will he be in the immediate future.

After that magical 8 minutes of garbage time against GSW, there were multiple posters in this thread saying he should be starting, or at least getting Turner's minutes. And, there are still people thinking he will be starting for us next season. It's funny, I've been called a diehard homer because I want the team to win, but I haven't lost all objectivity.

If Jake Layman is our starting SF a year from now, we're in big trouble. If he works really hard over the summer, I could see him growing into a rotation player, but he'd have to pass all of Turner, Harkless, Aminu and Crabbe (or whoever is left after any trades) to earn that starting spot, and I just don't see that happening as quickly (or possibly ever) as many would hope. On the other hand, I'd love to be proven wrong.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Do you actually sign every one of your posts? Lmao.

Yep, I have been since I started posting in these forums 15 years ago. Where you been noob?

It may be quaint and old fashioned, but signing my posts is my way of taking ownership for what I write.

BNM

 

[KingSpeed]

Man - can you imagine if both Jake and Meyers somehow became rotation worthy players? And then we were to somehow grab a two-way PF to help with defensive issues? Hell, we may not even need a two-way PF at that point - someone like Tristan Thompson would probably be just fine. Dame/CJ/Jake/TT/Meyers. Of course it is all theoretical at this point, as it seems pretty clear that Meyers will never develop into a rotation player while wearing a Blazers jersey. But if we somehow got a new coach this summer who was able to make it happen, the shooting would be incredible. I think I'd still start Harkless over Theoretical Jake, as Harkless really seems to play better when he's playing with Dame. (I really don't understand why Harkless was replaced in the starting line-up.)

Turner can guard a guard. This takes pressure off either Dame or CJ on defense. Also, Turner can make plays on offense so that Dame AND CJ can play off the ball. Harkless can't do either things and has actually been scoring well off the bench. Furthermore, we are playing better and winning. Since the lineup change, we are 4-2 and with a Plumlee layup and a Turner 3 at the respective buzzers, we'd be 6-0. Can't argue with success.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm not saying we should cut Layman loose anytime soon. We've got him locked up for two and a half more seasons (with 1.5 of those being guaranteed). Might as well see how he develops. I''m also not saying he can't improve. What I am saying is he's not close to being an NBA rotation player now, nor will he be in the immediate future.

If Jake Layman is our starting SF a year from now, we're in big trouble. If he works really hard over the summer, I could see him growing into a rotation player, but he'd have to pass all of Turner, Harkless, Aminu and Crabbe (or whoever is left after any trades) to earn that starting spot, and I just don't see that happening as quickly (or possibly ever) as many would hope. On the other hand, I'd love to be proven wrong.

BNM

I understand your point and agree with most of it. He is a rookie.....and rookie's need time to adjust, even those who play 4 years of college.

But in a Terry Stotts offense he looks like a good fit. I would love for Terry to tell ET and Aminu to stop shooting wide open 3's and attack the basket instead. Hell I am not sure they even want to shoot so many, but it sounds like Terry keeps encouraging them to do so, and if that is the case then Jake might get an opportunity next year. Personally I think the Blazers will trade some wings this summer, especially if they have confidence in Layman. The question is not how Jake compares to Leonard, but how he compares to Crabbe. If you want to get value back in a trade without moving CJ....Crabbe will be a key piece in that trade.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The question is not how Jake compares to Leonard, but how he compares to Crabbe. If you want to get value back in a trade without moving CJ....Crabbe will be a key piece in that trade.

Yep, that's what I said previously, that this is management's way of seeing if Layman has the potential to fill Crabbe's shoes if we trade him.

And, honestly, I'll probably get hammered for saying it in this thread, but I think that's Layman's upside - a solid bench player, but not a stater on a decent team. He's already defied the odds by actually making an NBA roster as the 47th pick in the draft. Anything else is gravy. If he eventually cracks the top 8 man rotation on a playoff team, that's tremendous value from a 47th pick.

BNM

 

[WillG]

Well if Layman gets half as long a chance/leash as Meyers has had from the Blazers; then there's a good chance we'll end up with something.
Layman has shown that he actually has an idea of what to do on a basketball court.

 

[KingSpeed]

I understand your point and agree with most of it. He is a rookie.....and rookie's need time to adjust, even those who play 4 years of college.

But in a Terry Stotts offense he looks like a good fit. I would love for Terry to tell ET and Aminu to stop shooting wide open 3's and attack the basket instead. Hell I am not sure they even want to shoot so many, but it sounds like Terry keeps encouraging them to do so, and if that is the case then Jake might get an opportunity next year. Personally I think the Blazers will trade some wings this summer, especially if they have confidence in Layman. The question is not how Jake compares to Leonard, but how he compares to Crabbe. If you want to get value back in a trade without moving CJ....Crabbe will be a key piece in that trade.

Aminu attacks the basket a lot and most people get upset/nervous when he does.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Aminu attacks the basket a lot and most people get upset/nervous when he does.

Yeah. In fact, I get annoyed when Aminu DOESN'T shoot IMMEDIATELY. He fakes on the perimeter way too much.

 

[blue9]

I agree with everything except replacing the coach. This theoretical lineup is pretty much designed for a Terry Stotts offense IMO. Another coach might want a entirely different style.

I say a new coach because it's highly unlikely that Meyers will ever develop into a rotation player under Stotts. I still think there's a chance he could develop into a rotation player, but he needs to play under a new coach within the next season or two if he hopes to salvage his career.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Aminu attacks the basket a lot and most people get upset/nervous when he does.

It's never boring is it? Every time Aminu puts the ball on the floor, it's an adventure. It reminds me of this, but Aminu only make it out of the cave half the time:



You just KNOW something is going to happen, but you never know if it will be a good something, or a bad something, and the potential outcome can change with each successive dribble.

BNM

 

[gatorpops]

Well if Layman gets half as long a chance/leash as Meyers has had from the Blazers; then there's a good chance we'll end up with something.
Layman has shown that he actually has an idea of what to do on a basketball court.

If Layman had Meyers NBA Body he would get this long of a chance.
Meyers body is very hard to give up on, as he will likly eventualy become a very servicable player - eventualy
and we have a hard time getting any very good replacement for him with that kind of body.

Aminu attacks the basket a lot and most people get upset/nervous when he does.

Aminu has been of late going to the basket a lot better and more effectively.
He is under control and finishing much better with the left hand and better at getting fouled.
He is also giving the ball up guicker when he rebounds and is filling the lanes better on the push.

 

[Pinwheel1]

[

Aminu attacks the basket a lot and most people get upset/nervous when he does.

This is true for many players and the key IMO is who they are driving against. If Aminu dribbles in traffic.....it's a turnover. But when he takes his man (another PF) off the dribble.....he usually goes right around them when they are guarding him on the perimeter. This is when I like him to do it. Late in the Charlotte game was a great example.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yep, that's what I said previously, that this is management's way of seeing if Layman has the potential to fill Crabbe's shoes if we trade him.

And, honestly, I'll probably get hammered for saying it in this thread, but I think that's Layman's upside - a solid bench player, but not a stater on a decent team. He's already defied the odds by actually making an NBA roster as the 47th pick in the draft. Anything else is gravy. If he eventually cracks the top 8 man rotation on a playoff team, that's tremendous value from a 47th pick.

BNM

Yeah but often there is no difference between a solid bench player and a starter on a decent team. What is important is how that player fits with the other 4 starters. Jake might be a better starter than a bench player if he is surrounded by good players who need a SF who can spread the floor and guard the perimeter.

He is long and athletic enough to guard the perimeter and when his 3 ball becomes more consistent....and it will, I can see him being a good 3 and D guy who can also pass, drive, and rebound. Remember it takes time for most players to adjust to the the extra 2-3 feet for the NBA 3 pt line. A shooter like Jake (with his form) will get better.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I can hardly wait 'til Jake has three full seasons of stats in the bank, so the advanced stat nerds can finally tell us if Jake is any good. Can't wait to know!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah but often there is no difference between a solid bench player and a starter on a decent team. What is important is how that player fits with the other 4 starters. Jake might be a better starter than a bench player if he is surrounded by good players who need a SF who can spread the floor and guard the perimeter.

He is long and athletic enough to guard the perimeter and when his 3 ball becomes more consistent....and it will, I can see him being a good 3 and D guy who can also pass, drive, and rebound. Remember it takes time for most players to adjust to the the extra 2-3 feet for the NBA 3 pt line. A shooter like Jake (with his form) will get better.

I hope some of this actually comes true, but I don't get the comments about his length. His standing reach of 8'6" is VERY short for a player of his height, and his wingspan of 9'6.25" is also well below average for an NBA small forward. Although his length is below average, it's comparable to Gordon Hayward, and not that far behind Chandler Parsons. Just saying, I wouldn't list it as a "strength".

He was also a very weak rebounder in college, even when playing PF as a junior. Again, not a "strength"

On the positive side, and I noted this back on draft day, his 3FG% improved every year in college. So, there is good a good precedent for improvement there.

BNM

 

[Pinwheel1]

I hope some of this actually comes true, but I don't get the comments about his length. His standing reach of 8'6" is VERY short for a player of his height, and his wingspan of 9'6.25" is also well below average for an NBA small forward. Although his length is below average, it's comparable to Gordon Hayward, and not that far behind Chandler Parsons. Just saying, I wouldn't list it as a "strength".

BNM

Yeah that is a good point. I guess maybe his max vertical makes him look longer to me. (Close to 40") That could help him blocking a few 3's though.

I disagree with his rebounding stats in college. 5 per game in college may not be fantastic, but those are solid numbers for a wing player. Is there even a PF position in college anymore? It seems like most spread the floor. In comparison oregon's leading rebounder this year comes in at 7 per game. And that is their center.

You may be right though, but to me he looks like a quick leaper. He will not dominate on the boards but I bet he is a solid rebounder in the NBA for a SF.

 

[riverman]

I never saw him play in college but what I've seen from the kid is that he's really not shy about banging in the paint or dribbling into traffic...uses his body well for his size.

 

[jlprk]

Quick questions: Layman vs. Biebs.
What can Layman do that Biebs can't?
What can Biebs do that Layman can't?

Lots and very little are my early answers, but I'd like to hear yours. I'm talking about actual basketball skills like dribbling, passing, filling the lane, defending, ...

You left out mental skills.

Until last season, Leonard was one of the most discombobulated players I've ever seen in the NBA. A contract year finally focused his mind and motivated him to learn where to be on the court. Layman is fluid not because of his body, but because his mind thinks quickly.

 

[jlprk]

I can hardly wait 'til Jake has three full seasons of stats in the bank, so the advanced stat nerds can finally tell us if Jake is any good. Can't wait to know!

That's the funniest criticism of Boob I've ever seen.

TB

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Blazinaway]

not a bad game but it once again it highlights a big issue with him - his very poor 3 pt shooting, he was 0/7 on 3's and is under 20% in his 4 games f0r WCB's

 

[TBpup]

Layman has looked more smooth in each game outside of his 3-pt shooting. He looks like an actual SF that can handle a little bit, make a good pass and is fluid. Despite his 3-pt percentage, I think that comes around. He had good form, great rotation and most every shot looks good, it's just not going in. It will come.

 

[riverman]

I like that he wants to drive the lane and keeps moving forward with his play...what I don't like is to see guys hang out waiting for a shot...he goes and gets the ball.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Same 2 teams, same score for Layman, but different game, honest! (You can tell, because Denzel Valentine didn't play this time.)
Tim Quarterman also played in both and seems to be a good rebounder if nothing else.

 

[Chris Craig]

Same 2 teams, same score for Layman, but different game, honest! (You can tell, because Denzel Valentine didn't play this time.)
Tim Quarterman also played in both and seems to be a good rebounder if nothing else.

Damn we need to recall his ass now!

 

[THE HCP]

Not going to read this thread.....flat out refuse. Stats from the D-League are MEANINGLESS good or bad! I won't waste your time with links to past players who have gone down there and lit it up.

 

[Trackjack]

He does some really good things on the floor. His movement is really good on his handles. Yes he need put down the 3 ball but he looks good inside the arc.

 

[riverman]

Not going to read this thread.....flat out refuse. Stats from the D-League are MEANINGLESS good or bad! I won't waste your time with links to past players who have gone down there and lit it up.

Coby Karl! Adam Morrison! Luke Jackson! Antoine Walker!

 

[riverman]

Not going to read this thread.....flat out refuse. Stats from the D-League are MEANINGLESS good or bad! I won't waste your time with links to past players who have gone down there and lit it up.

there's video...you don't have to read anything!