Jason Kidd on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

[PapaG]

Apparently they and their coaches haven't been listening closely to the expert Roy Bashers on this board and others.

Terry:

Ask the Mavericks about Roy and they'll tell you it was not coincidental that they trapped him when he had the ball. They ran double teams at him, too, every chance in Game 1. Said Jason Kidd: "We're not fools; that's still Brandon Roy."

LMA:

Listen to what LaMarcus Aldridge, Roy's closest friend on the team, said Sunday.

"If he wasn't good, teams wouldn't double and trap him," Aldridge said. "They want the ball out of his hands. The criticism from fans? That's just the world we live in, I guess."

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/or...f/2011/04/canzano_dont_blame_brandon_roy.html

But that goes beyond Roy. That's an issue for a team that failed to get anything from Gerald Wallace and Wesley Matthews in what would have gone down as dismal first half had Roy and Co. not ripped off that 20-0 run in the paint to start the second half.

...

Nevermind the scoreless first half by two starters in Game 1. Nevermind the free-throw disparity. Nevermind that Portland held Dallas without a field goal for 11 beautiful minutes with the three-time All-Star on the court in the second half.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Yeah it really makes me sick that Portland fans are so adapt to give up on him so quickly. It's funny that Roy still gets doubled and still is respected by his own teammates; especially the one that is now #1 option on the team. Just don't get it. I can't believe fans are so quick to toss all that a single player has done; especially only being 3.5 months from double knee surgery. Kinda makes me sick.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

It doesn't make us happy to say that Roy will never again be the allstar version, but it's true. What do you expect Aldridge to say, "yeah, he sucks now..." ?

 

[PapaG]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Whoops, it was Jason Kidd, not Jason Terry. Even more credibility, IMO. Mods, if you're around, please change the title.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

It doesn't make us happy to say that Roy will never again be the allstar version, but it's true. What do you expect Aldridge to say, "yeah, he sucks now..." ?

If he sucks, why is Dallas trapping the ball and doubling him? They aren't trapping and doubling Wesley Matthews, Rudy, or Gerald Wallace.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Yeah it really makes me sick that Portland fans are so adapt to give up on him so quickly. It's funny that Roy still gets doubled and still is respected by his own teammates; especially the one that is now #1 option on the team. Just don't get it. I can't believe fans are so quick to toss all that a single player has done; especially only being 3.5 months from double knee surgery. Kinda makes me sick.

It's the ignorance that makes me sick. Roy is still being double-teamed; it's up to his teammates to then hit the open shots this creates. Yet it's Roy's fault that Wallace and Matthews could barely hit the backboard on Saturday. The starting SF (averaging 15.8 ppg as a Blazer) and the starting SG (15.9 ppg) were scoreless in the 1st half, and somehow that's Roy's fault.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

If he sucks, why is Dallas trapping the ball and doubling him? They aren't trapping and doubling Wesley Matthews, Rudy, or Gerald Wallace.

I know right? It's too funny how people look at box scores and make opinions without paying attention on the floor. The last thing Dallas wants is for Roy to finally find his game. If that happened, then the series is over and they know it. They are making damn sure Roy is still doubting his game.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

It's the ignorance that makes me sick. Roy is still being double-teamed; it's up to his teammates to then hit the open shots this creates. Yet it's Roy's fault that Wallace and Matthews could barely hit the backboard on Saturday. The starting SF (averaging 15.8 ppg as a Blazer) and the starting SG (15.9 ppg) were scoreless in the 1st half, and somehow that's Roy's fault.

Right?!?!?! Roy was trying to facilitate for his team; while his teammates couldn't hit a shot. If they could, the game could have totally changed for Roy. Regardless, I'm done arguing this point. Somehow these fans have no clue most players in the NBA would never had tried to come back just having surgery 3.5 months ago. Whatever...

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Brandon Roy is a shell of his former playing self. However he is still capable of putting together a very good game now and then. Teams would be foolish to take him for granted offensively.

Now defensively I'm sure Kidd forgot to mention that they attack the shit out of him because his knees are so bad he can't even stay in front of Peja freaking Stojakovic

 

[Draco]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Right?!?!?! Roy was trying to facilitate for his team; while his teammates couldn't hit a shot. If they could, the game could have totally changed for Roy. Regardless, I'm done arguing this point. Somehow these fans have no clue most players in the NBA would never had tried to come back just having surgery 3.5 months ago. Whatever...

Roy had a very minor scope procedure on both knees. You're making it sound like he has microfracture. Players come back a few weeks after knee scopes all the time.

Wesley and Wallace have been extremely productive all season and that's the reason they have been starting and playing long extended minutes.

Roy has played very poorly all season and played poorly again in the playoffs. Nate abandoned his regular rotation and played Roy longer than normal minutes and at the same time as Miller. Roy made ONE shot out of SEVEN. He was our worst defender on the court. Other playes had bad games too but Roy has been bad all season and now McMillian is increasing his minutes in the playoffs.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Roy had a very minor scope procedure on both knees. You're making it sound like he has microfracture. Players come back a few weeks after knee scopes all the time.

Wesley and Wallace have been extremely productive all season and that's the reason they have been starting and playing long extended minutes.

Roy has played very poorly all season and played poorly again in the playoffs. Nate abandoned his regular rotation and played Roy longer than normal minutes and at the same time as Miller. Roy made ONE shot out of SEVEN. He was our worst defender on the court. Other playes had bad games too but Roy has been bad all season and now McMillian is increasing his minutes in the playoffs.

What a load of shit. Matthews couldn't score, and at least Roy was commanding a double-team. Plus, as posted, Roy was on the court for an 11-minute stretch where Dallas did not score a FG, and the Blazers came from down at halftime to up by 6 points with 6 minutes left.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

What a load of shit. Matthews couldn't score, and at least Roy was commanding a double-team. Plus, as posted, Roy was on the court for an 11-minute stretch where Dallas did not score a FG, and the Blazers came from down at halftime to up by 6 points with 6 minutes left.

Yep, people are forgetting which line-up actually overcame the deficit and went up by 6.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Draft the stache!

 

[PapaG]

Draft the stache!

Haha!

 

[Blazinaway]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Yeah it really makes me sick that Portland fans are so adapt to give up on him so quickly. It's funny that Roy still gets doubled and still is respected by his own teammates; especially the one that is now #1 option on the team. Just don't get it. I can't believe fans are so quick to toss all that a single player has done; especially only being 3.5 months from double knee surgery. Kinda makes me sick.

well then why are his ASSIST stats LOWER this yr then before? where is the FACILITATING? his career numbers are 4.7 APG in 35.6 minutes which = .0132 per minute. this year they are 2.7 in 28 minutes - a significant decline to .096. So he less effective is EVERY aspect that i can see.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

well then why are his ASSIST stats LOWER this yr then before? where is the FACILITATING? his career numbers are 4.7 APG in 35.6 minutes which = .0132 per minute. this year they are 2.7 in 28 minutes - a significant decline to .096. So he less effective is EVERY aspect that i can see.

I don't know if you watched the game then. There were plenty of passes to a wide open shooter and that player didn't hit their shot. Assists only happen when the other player is actually hitting their shots. You don't get an assist for a shot hitting the rim.

 

[Blazinaway]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

I don't know if you watched the game then. There were plenty of passes to a wide open shooter and that player didn't hit their shot. Assists only happen when the other player is actually hitting their shots. You don't get an assist for a shot hitting the rim.

garbage mags, I was not talking ONE game I gave you stats for this entire yr, that's not a one game aberration of guys missin shots. Roy is not facilitating well at all and in fact is doing significantly worse at it than previous years, that tells me all this double teaming talk is blowin smoke from Kidd or whoever, he can't even take average defenders one on one - are you watching the games? I don't hate or dislike Roy, he was a great SG for this team, but reality is reality

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

garbage mags, I was not talking ONE game I gave you stats for this entire yr, that's not a one game aberration of guys missin shots. Roy is not facilitating well at all and in fact is doing significantly worse at it than previous years, that tells me all this double teaming talk is blowin smoke from Kidd or whoever, he can't even take average defenders one on one - are you watching the games? I don't hate or dislike Roy, he was a great SG for this team, but reality is reality

I wasn't talking about one game either. Look at the games where his assists were higher and look at the FG% of the backcourt. They are noticeably higher than games were they are lower.

 

[Blazinaway]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

I wasn't talking about one game either. Look at the games where his assists were higher and look at the FG% of the backcourt. They are noticeably higher than games were they are lower.

but look how significantly lower his assists are for the year, what is there to defend here? His game is a shadow of it's former self and he should play limited minuted unless he shows in his first half stint he's having a good game - he sure did not show that Saturday and Nate said he "forget about Wes"? and played Brandon most of the 4th qtr - that was dumb IMO

 

[Blazinaway]

I'm not surprised that PapaG would be one to bring up Canzano's article to defend Roy. The King of strawman and his 1st lieutenant.

Let's see here. There are assholes among Portland fans. Well, no shit? Tell me what fanbases that don't have assholes and idiots.

Roy is not the only (or main) reason why Portland lost. Again, no shit? It's a fucking team game. Who doesn't understand that one player cannot be the only reason for a lost or a win? People are only calling it as they it; that Roy is no longer an effective player and can be a liability out there on both ends. Roy has shown this in his play and in his stats ever since he came back from the surgeries. That people questioned why he played so much in the 4th quarter when we had better options to go to is only reasonable.

Opponent players and Roy's teammates still respect him and saying good thing about him. Once again, no shit? Paying lip service and saying clicheish shits are unofficial part of their job. What else should Kidd and LaMarcus say?

exactly! Roy was only one reason we lost, there were certainly others. As I said I do not dislike Roy but I want the TEAM to win, IMO playing him as much as Nate did is NOT the way to do that.

 

[Driew]

I'm sorry, but just because Roy was demanding a double team doesn't mean he should have been on the court in the closing minutes. His defense is what cost us the game. Yes he was on the court during that 11 minute drought by Dallas, but I think that had more to do with Dallas missing shots vs Roy playing defense. When Roy was healthy he'd take possessions off on defense to rest. Now he doesn't even really try on defense because of his bad knees. Roy should have been subbed out around the 4 minute mark or something of the 4th at the latest. There is no reason for Roy to be playing the entire 4th. Yes Wesley wasn't hitting his shot (neither was Roy), but his defense was still really good.

Having someone demand a double team does not mean it's the most efficient form of offense. It was a lot of iso'ing with Roy on the court (McMillan's crutch offense in the 4th) and it failed us *again*. I would have much rather had some quality defense being played from our shooting guard vs having a guard that couldn't shoot OR play a lick of defense. Roy's form of defense involves reaching in and that's just ASKING for a foul to be called. I remember one play were dirk had batum at the basket and Batum had his hands straight up playing solid defense and suddenly from behind Roy just reaches in and swipes at Dirk's wrist. You could see Batum in disbelief at Roy saying "Why'd you do that man?!"

Look I'm not saying Roy shouldn't be playing--he just shouldn't be playing in the closing minutes if he had a crappy game (1-8 or something like that) up to that point. If he was playing good that game I could understand it.

 

[RoyToy]

I'm sorry, but just because Roy was demanding a double team doesn't mean he should have been on the court in the closing minutes. His defense is what cost us the game. Yes he was on the court during that 11 minute drought by Dallas, but I think that had more to do with Dallas missing shots vs Roy playing defense. When Roy was healthy he'd take possessions off on defense to rest. Now he doesn't even really try on defense because of his bad knees. Roy should have been subbed out around the 4 minute mark or something of the 4th at the latest. There is no reason for Roy to be playing the entire 4th. Yes Wesley wasn't hitting his shot (neither was Roy), but his defense was still really good.

Having someone demand a double team does not mean it's the most efficient form of offense. It was a lot of iso'ing with Roy on the court (McMillan's crutch offense in the 4th) and it failed us *again*. I would have much rather had some quality defense being played from our shooting guard vs having a guard that couldn't shoot OR play a lick of defense. Roy's form of defense involves reaching in and that's just ASKING for a foul to be called. I remember one play were dirk had batum at the basket and Batum had his hands straight up playing solid defense and suddenly from behind Roy just reaches in and swipes at Dirk's wrist. You could see Batum in disbelief at Roy saying "Why'd you do that man?!"

Look I'm not saying Roy shouldn't be playing--he just shouldn't be playing in the closing minutes if he had a crappy game (1-8 or something like that) up to that point. If he was playing good that game I could understand it.

His defense is what cost the Blazers the game?

The Mavericks made 4 FG in the 4th Q. Explain to me how this is Roy costing the team on defense.

The refs bailed out the Mavs with 19 FT in the 4th Q, plain and simple.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Bullshit. What I saw was Roy very slow to initiate the offense, drove to the basket but wasn't able to collapse the defense, kicked the ball out to teammates who had to take contested long jumpers because of the shot clock winding down. I still have the game on DVR.

That's funny cause I have it on DVR too and just watched it after you called bullshit. I saw 5 drives when the defense collapsed on him and he passed 1 outlet to Aldridge for a make, another for a miss, 1 to fernandez for a missed three, another to a Wallace for a missed three, and another to a left wing open jumper to Batum for a miss. But hey, if you want to say what you will about his game, then all the power to you.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Bullshit. What I saw was Roy very slow to initiate the offense, drove to the basket but wasn't able to collapse the defense, kicked the ball out to teammates who had to take contested long jumpers because of the shot clock winding down. I still have the game on DVR.

Saying anything negative or bad (honest) about Roy never goes well. People don't seem to see the contested shots his teammateas put up at the end of the clock, or the fact the ball rarely enters into Aldridge early in the clock when Roy is on the floor. All they see is the wonderful player that was able to overcome those things in the past because of his outstanding play.

At some point in this series Brandon will "explode" for 20ish points and people will bump this thread and say "I told you so"

 

[magnifier661]

His defense is what cost the Blazers the game?

The Mavericks made 4 FG in the 4th Q. Explain to me how this is Roy costing the team on defense.

The refs bailed out the Mavs with 19 FT in the 4th Q, plain and simple.

Seriously, this is getting out of hand. It's obvious that the ones that think that our lose to Dallas rest soley on Roy will keep with this theory until proven otherwise. These are the same posters that haven't harped on Wallace or Wes for a piss poor performance. Also, these are the same people that didn't bother to mention Batum shot 6-14. Whatever reason, they would put more blame on someone taking 7 shots than:

Batum 6-14

G. Wallace 4-13

and Wes Matthews 1-3 and 3 turn overs.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

Saying anything negative or bad (honest) about Roy never goes well. People don't seem to see the contested shots his teammateas put up at the end of the clock, or the fact the ball rarely enters into Aldridge early in the clock when Roy is on the floor. All they see is the wonderful player that was able to overcome those things in the past because of his outstanding play.

At some point in this series Brandon will "explode" for 20ish points and people will bump this thread and say "I told you so"

I will not say "I told you so". But I will keep on my statement that I strongly disagree with many that think he is all but done. And once he gets a string of "those type of games", then I will say "I told you so", just like I would assume that many of you would say the same if it went the other way.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Jason Terry on "Fools", LMA on "Fans" RE: Brandon Roy

I don't understand your point unless you're saying that this only happens with Roy. Does Miller not get more assists when the teammates he passed the ball to shot higher percentages? Does LaMarcus? Does any player?

No shit that a player would usually get more assists in games his teammates shot a high percentage.

We aren't talking about other players are we? I haven't knocked any player based on shit arguments like assists being lower like you. Your argument has many holes because assists aren't like points or rebounds. You are at the mercy of other players to knock em down to get one. So when I replied in terms of "higher percentages", it is a reply that that number is because of your teammates hitting the open shots. UNDERSTAND?!?!?!

 

[B-Roy]

It's obvious that the ones that think that our lose to Dallas rest soley on Roy will keep with this theory until proven otherwise.

Who's saying that? People were questioning playing Roy more minutes (And rightfully so), but I don't really see anyone saying Roy was the sole reason for the loss.

 

[magnifier661]

Who's saying that? People were questioning playing Roy more minutes (And rightfully so), but I don't really see anyone saying Roy was the sole reason for the loss.

Read the board. And BTW, Roy has been getting his normal 25 minutes a game. He only had 26 minutes in this contest. Nothing that Nate hasn't been doing already.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Let's face it - contracts influence playing time.

Roy's contract is a sunk cost. Instead of accepting that, the organization will pressure Nate to play Roy as much as possible in a futile effort to recoup the investment.

You see this all the time in pro sports. No point in making Nate the scapegoat for a decision that probably comes from higher up the foodchain.