Jason Quick: Rudy on his way out?

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Rudy and our pick for Flynn? If they really want to send a signal to Rubio this would be the way to do it right?

I'd like that trade IF we had a trade in place to send Bayless somewhere for a decent bench 2 or 3 that can score/shoot and defend well. (don't even try to tell me bayless is a good defender because he's aggressive and athletic, he's also idiotic at team defense)
 
HCP said:
Rudy can help our team this upcoming season so much more then the 16th pick EVER could!
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Well that all depends. Is Rudy actually going to work on his game this year? Is Rudy actually going to hit the gymn and get his body into NBA shape? If Rudy would show me some effort, I would be all for supporting him. But he doesn't.
 
ahh poor blazer fan, would you like Rudy to come over and make you some Tea? Would that make you feel better?

:devilwink:


I'm with HCP on this one, Once we establish the post were going to need Rudy, whatever he can provide will be more than any rookie > 10th pick.
 
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HailBlazers said:
ahh poor blazer fan, would you like Rudy to come over and make you some Tea? Would that make you feel better?

:devilwink:


I'm with HCP on this one, Once we establish the post were going to need Rudy, whatever he can provide will be more than any rookie > 10th pick.
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You know I am pretty sure most rookies wouldn't go 0-12 in a pllayoff game when most of them are wide open shots before finally hitting one. You can talk shit all you want. But when Rudy hits the court, your words fall on def ears.
 
I disagree, I think most Rookies placed in that shitty offense with no movement against a Red Hot phoenix team would do the same.

Agree to Disagree I guess.
 
It's obvious that the only thing holding back the Blazers is not having the starting line-up and the bench of the Minnesota Timberwolves! Or, moving two bench players from a 15-win team into our starting line-up!
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As far as Kevin Love is concerned, he's a bench player because Al Jefferson's better than he is. Al is also better than LMA. In some peoples' minds, the progression goes Al>Love>LMA. I get that you disagree.

To dismiss it as cavalierly as "being a bench player on a bad team" seems a bit forced. LMA sat on the bench behind Zach Randolph on a 21-win team. Why is he considered a franchise cornerstone again? Should we have traded him for an average-to-above-average veteran starter from a good team and totally fleeced them in 2007?
 
BrianFromWA said:
As far as Kevin Love is concerned, he's a bench player because Al Jefferson's better than he is. Al is also better than LMA. In some peoples' minds, the progression goes Al>Love>LMA. I get that you disagree.

To dismiss it as cavalierly as "being a bench player on a bad team" seems a bit forced. LMA sat on the bench behind Zach Randolph on a 21-win team. Why is he considered a franchise cornerstone again? Should we have traded him for an average-to-above-average veteran starter from a good team and totally fleeced them in 2007?
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Not in his second year. In fact, Zach was moved to make room for LMA. I think trying to link to two situations is a major stretch.
 
BGrantFan said:
It's obvious that the only thing holding back the Blazers is not having the starting line-up and the bench of the Minnesota Timberwolves! Or, moving two bench players from a 15-win team into our starting line-up!
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The part you are forgetting is the Al Jeff has had knee problems the last couple of years. If we trade away LMA (one of the few guys that was healthy for most of last year) for a fragile power forward the team should just change it's hame to the Portland Microfractures.

Whatever else Portland needs, they don't need to trade a healthy guy for a injury prone guy.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Al is also better than LMA.
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That's just plain shortsighted. Jefferson is a better rebounder and low-post scorer than LMA, but he's a terrible team player (complete black hole on offense), plays no defense WHATSOEVER, wouldn't work alongside Oden and has a history of injuries. A trade of LMA for Jefferson would be a huge mistake. As was the trade of Garnett, however old and overpaid, for Jefferson. As the Wolves have discovered.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
That's just plain shortsighted. Jefferson is a better rebounder and low-post scorer than LMA, but he's a terrible team player (complete black hole on offense), plays no defense WHATSOEVER, wouldn't work alongside Oden and has a history of injuries. A trade of LMA for Jefferson would be a huge mistake. As was the trade of Garnett, however old and overpaid, for Jefferson. As the Wolves have discovered.
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Hang on. I'm not saying I would trade LMA for Al Jeff. I'm saying that Love is the "backup PF on a 15-win team" for the same reason that LMA would be...because Al Jefferson is better than each one. There's a healthy debate over whether LMA or Love is better for our team. But to say that trading LMA for Love isn't good b/c Love's a backup on a 15-win team isn't talking about production differences or chemistry benefits, it's talking about a third player.

I'd trade Rudy and LMA for Love and the #4 (though a small contract like Meeks' would have to be added, iirc). And I think we'd get more production from the 4, and better flow on offense in general. And any defensive shortcomings one may think we'd get going from LMA's 107 D-rating to Love's 109 would probably be erased by better ball movement, elite rebounding and more range on jump-shooting (if that's how we're going to continue using our PFs).
 
I think Flynn for Rudy straight up is pretty fair, but Flynn's defensive potential as a pro kind of worries me; he played under Boeheim and his zone and he sure didn't seem to show much man-to-man potential with the Wolves. But if the swap was pretty much a 1 for 1 , I could live with that (even if we had to throw in some cash or a our second round pick).
 
BrianFromWA said:
http://www.basketball-reference.com...2010&p2=loveke01&y2=2010&p3=jeffeal01&y3=2010
One might find this enlightening as well.
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I'm well aware of how garbage time effects players stats so sorry, not very enlightening. The Wolves scrubs got plenty of meaningless minutes going up against other scrubs in blowout losses as they were last in the league in point differential at nearly -10 points per game (PDX was +3.3). Having frontcourt players who struggle defensively is a sure way to find yourself moving down that list and not a direction I'd support the club going.

STOMP
 
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So the defensive rating differences between LMA and Love (AND JEFFERSON) in their garbage time being 2 apart means what to you, Stomp? Are you saying that Love was super-committed in his garbage time defense against garbage players, and that's the only reason he was able to post a comparable defensive rating with more rebounds and blocks and steals than LMA in his non-garbage, every-second-counts time? Really?
 
I think Rudy (and maybe even Claver) to MIN makes a lot of sense....Doubt we get Love\Jefferson back for him though... # 16? Yeah that is possible IMO...and if George\Henry or Anderson are there I think POR should consider it....
 
BrianFromWA said:
So the defensive rating differences between LMA and Love (AND JEFFERSON) in their garbage time being 2 apart means what to you, Stomp?
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Jefferson is a starter for them so a higher percentage of his minutes came when the outcome was still in doubt. But more to the point, I've stated in other threads that I don't think the defensive stats do a good job of capturing whats what so I never refer to them for anyone. My opinion of Love's D is based on observation and his physical limitations that were confirmed at the pre-draft. For a starting PF dude has poor length, and is on the short, fat/heavy, and slow side. I know he can shoot the long ball, pass, and board, but dude is overmatched on D to my eyes and thats the aspect of Big man play I value most. This is especially so when he is matched up vs the taller longer more athletic guys who aren't coming off the bench.

thanks for the enlightenment though

STOMP
 
Love had a better vertical than LMA, a faster lane agility time, and a quicker 3/4 court sprint. Looks slow, sure. Also has same wingspan, reach, and vertical as Blake Griffin.
 
RR7 said:
Love had a better vertical than LMA, a faster lane agility time, and a quicker 3/4 court sprint. Looks slow, sure. Also has same wingspan, reach, and vertical as Blake Griffin.
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did I claim that LA was a great athlete? His posted times and verts were a shade under Kevin's but of course he has considerably more height and length.... having just checked the predraft stuff you knew this right? Of course while players can train to become faster and more explosive, adding height/length is more problematic.

Griffin is more or less the same size but his posted vertical jump numbers were about as much above Kevin's as Kevin's were above LA's... why this discrepancy in what you list as better and what is the same? I'm not really a Griffin fan though and prior to his draft questioned his NBA potential for the same reasons I questioned Love's and for that matter Beasley's. PFs often cover 5s on defensive switches so being small is a concern.

STOMP
 
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Jonny Flynn was straight up AWFUL last season. (worst season by any rookie who got at least 1500 minutes and collected 350 assists over the last 10 seasons. Yikes.)

I guess there's a chance that Flynn develops into a good player, but I'm not sure I'd bet much on it, though I guess Fernandez is a somewhat similar value player, since he's been acting like he's got sand in his vag for the last year or so.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=J4qav
 
Cake said:
Jonny Flynn was straight up AWFUL last season. (worst season by any rookie who got at least 1500 minutes and collected 350 assists over the last 10 seasons. Yikes.)

I guess there's a chance that Flynn develops into a good player, but I'm not sure I'd bet much on it, though I guess Fernandez is a somewhat similar value player, since he's been acting like he's got sand in his vag for the last year or so.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=J4qav
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That's odd criteria you're using. I don't disgaree he was a disappointment, but I'd be more interested in how his season compares to rookies who just played 1500 minutes. The worst rookie who played 1500 minutes and scored 1200 points, probably is still a good player.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
What happened to: "you're under contract, you have no leverage, you were injured last year, so work hard and stay healthy and we'll see what happens"?

Everybody needs to calm down. Some players (Beno Udrih, for example) seem to alternate bad seasons with good ones. Rudy is still a very talented basketball player with a high bball IQ, and a clutch 3-point shooter. He was also among league leaders in steals before he had back surgery. You would have to be very fortunate to find a better player with the 16th pick.

(And yes, he was picked at 24, but that was a steal. If you'd've re-done the draft after his rookie year (in which, let us not forget, he set a rookie record for 3-pointers) he would've been picked in the top ten in all likelihood.) We're in the silly season where everybody wildly overrates draft picks and remembers only the bad things about our current players.
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DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING! WE HAVE A WINNER!
 
Cake said:
Jonny Flynn was straight up AWFUL last season. (worst season by any rookie who got at least 1500 minutes and collected 350 assists over the last 10 seasons. Yikes.)

I guess there's a chance that Flynn develops into a good player, but I'm not sure I'd bet much on it, though I guess Fernandez is a somewhat similar value player, since he's been acting like he's got sand in his vag for the last year or so.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=J4qav
Click to expand...

I blame it on the triangle.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I blame it on the triangle.
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Oh, didn't you get the memo? It's not acceptable to suggest that Rambis trying to shoe-horn pick and roll point guards (Flynn and Sessions) into the triangle was a bad idea.
 
Tince said:
That's odd criteria you're using. I don't disgaree he was a disappointment, but I'd be more interested in how his season compares to rookies who just played 1500 minutes. The worst rookie who played 1500 minutes and scored 1200 points, probably is still a good player.
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Well, I was trying to get guys who were conceivably point guards. But since you asked...

113 out of 119 guys who have gotten 1500 minutes or more in their rookie year in terms of win score.

Ahead of A_am Morrison though!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=cKxge
 
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