Jaynes: List of Blazers' mistakes in landing Hedo

[Erroneous Subterfuge]

The first bolded section is you not seeing why it was a big deal for them to make his arrival public, the second bolded section explains why it is a bigdeal and why you shouldn't unless you are 100% sure it's going to work.

No, the only problem is they only seem to have had one option in free agency and it didn't happen. Whether they made Turkeys visit public or not, the result would have been the same. I don't really care if some people view KP's efforts as small market or not, I care about improving the team.

 

[TripTango]

Just because I'm dogging KP for being a little "small town" doesn't mean I think Colangelo is making a good move either, in fact a couple of days ago when I saw the rumors that Toronto might waive 5 players to sign Hedo for up to 60 million dollars I openly mocked him for being an idiot. Frankly the whole Hedo soap opera has been a comedy of errors on all sides.

I'm just glad that this part is over and hopefully KP will skip the public displays and get down to business instead of treating the process like a college recruiting trip

I agree. It seems the only winner here was Hedo's wife. (And maybe, to a lesser extent, Hedo himself, depending on how much he enjoys losing.)

On an unrelated note, I sure have been appreciating the ignore feature on these boards. Golden.

 

[Nikolokolus]

No, the only problem is they only seem to have had one option in free agency and it didn't happen. Whether they made Turkeys visit public or not, the result would have been the same. I don't really care if some people view KP's efforts as small market or not, I care about improving the team.

I sincerely doubt it was "Hedo or bust", certainly he was their first target, but it would been a pretty soft-sell if they had conveyed to Hedo that they were interested, but actually had 3 or 4 other guys they were considering.

You're right the small time stuff is a sidebar and is just kind of embarrassing and doesn't really affect anything but public perception of the city and the team, the real meat and potatoes is improving the team with their available cap room -- hopefully something positive will materialize and hopefully KP will keep a lid on it (at least not make it a big public thing) until it's truly a done deal.

 

[SodaPopinski]

As if the overly red-carpet treatment caused Hedo to not sign.

You're missing the point. All the fluff and hype didn't cause us to miss out on Hedo. But the organization could have saved themselves the egg on their face if they didn't make it such a public courtship. Now they have to deal with the embarrassment on a bigger scale.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Considering it's come to light that he actually agreed to sign on Wednesday night before he ever arrived in Portland I see no problem with what Portland did. They thought they were welcoming someone who was definitely going to sign with them and had given his word.

 

[yakbladder]

If what Hedo's agent and the reports say is true, there was a verbal agreement before he actually came. So, again, Dwight Jaynes is an idiot.

Now, if those reports are wrong, then I still stand by my statement that Dwight Jaynes is an idiot.

 

[Public Defender]

Jaynes isn't entirely wrong, but he's such a glass half-empty whiner, it's hard to take him seriously. As someone above said - the Blazers swung for the fences and missed. If you don't swing for the fences once in a while, you shouldn't be playing.

Also, as I understand it, the Blazers were under the impression from the Turkoglu camp - following the dinner Nate had with Turkoglu - that Turkoglu was going to sign, so Jaynes' whole "you don't fly them out if you're not sure they're going to sign" is off base.

Obviously, there were some details to work out, and Turkoglu wanted to be wooed a little more. So, you go with the big production.

Did the big production lose Portland Turkoglu? Hell no.

It was the Raptors stepping up and saying "we're going to pay you more, and to manage that we're going to jettison at least three players." All the Blazers could say was "well, we're using all our cap space on you, and we're losing two guys we've never had."

The bottom line is a small town reality, but not the one that Jaynes is harping on: Portland is not the international city that Toronto is, and it probably never will be. People who want that, don't move here, or else they're disappointing about the Rose City's limitations.

 

[maxiep]

I don't recall Sacramento, San Antonio or Orlando being "not cosmopolitan". I don't buy the excuse.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Wow. Big shocker. D-bag Jaynes opened his mouth too soon. Everything coming out now says that Hedo has given his commitment to Portland Wednesday night, BEFORE flying to Portland. That was one of his points. Good job, D-bag. Know the story, then write it. BTW, who are you writing for now? The Oregonian? They let you know? What about the Tribune? What? No? They also let you go? You wrote your article, then it came out that your story was incorrect?

You fail.

 

[barfo]

This is amusing:

view from Orlando

barfo

 

[illmatic99]

This is amusing:

view from Orlando

barfo

He's mocking us.

 

[number 10]

*Sigh*... I guess our players aren't the only ones with inexperience on the Blazers.

KP has already successfully "wooed" Rudy, probably giving him the same red carpet treatment in Spain.

 

[Boob-No-More]

You're missing the point. All the fluff and hype didn't cause us to miss out on Hedo. But the organization could have saved themselves the egg on their face if they didn't make it such a public courtship. Now they have to deal with the embarrassment on a bigger scale.

I don't get why this is embarrassing at all. We made an offer, the most we could under the cap. Somebody else offered him more. He went with the bigger offer. That's pretty much standard practice and the one thing Dwight Jaynes got right - money talks.

Should we be embarrassed that we made our best pitch and lost out to a team willing to renounce/waive five players to overpay one? I'd feel worse if we hadn't pulled out all the stops and tried our best to land him. It simply came down to money. Toronto offered him more than we could. It's as simple as that.

Ultimately, I think Toronto will be the ones that are embarrassed after they miss the play-offs this coming season, Bosh signs elsewhere next summer and they are stuck in rebuilding mode with another 4 years and $50 million owed to a 31-year old role player. Hedo doesn't make them a contender now, and won't keep them out of the lottery after Bosh leaves. Without inking Bosh to an extension, this is a waste of $60 million by Toronto. They are the ones who should be (and will be) embarrassed.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

This is amusing:

view from Orlando

barfo

I agree 100% with everything the author said. Hedo gave up chances to contend for championships in both Orlando and Portland for a slightly bigger contract in Toronto, where he will likely never see the play-offs again for the remainder of his career.

And, it was stupid move by Toronto. It reminds me of people so focused on winning an eBay auction that they impulsively bid $300 for the complete "Momma's Family" series on Betamax tapes when they have a VHS VCR. It's not like Toronto is in a win now situation where they just need one piece to put them over the top. And, after renouncing/waiving five players to clear cap space for Hedo, they have even more holes in their ridiculous roster than they did before. After last season's disaster, Bryan Colangelo must be felling the heat, and this smacks of a total desperation move by him. The Raps have gone from 47 wins to 42 to 33. One season of Hedo and Bosh may be enough to momentarily reverse (or slow) the trend (although I still doubt they'll make the play-offs), but after Bosh leaves, the Raps will quickly become one of the worst teams in the league. I hear Hedo's wife really likes Toronto. I wonder how her husband will like playing in a half empty stadium for a 20-win team.

BNM

 

[alex42083]

This is amusing:

view from Orlando

barfo

Good column.
Purely from a basketball standpoint, there is no way Hedo can argue that Toronto was best for him over Portland and Orlando.
It screams to me that Hedo has been satisfied with what he's accomplished in his career. While it's usually when players get older, the more important winning a ring becomes -- Hedo proved otherwise. Quality of his life and his wife's are seemingly more important to him right now.

It's a shame since it contradicts everything that was said about him by Orlando media, and even guys from Sacramento. They all said he was a team-first guy, and great teammate.
It's not like he couldn't have waited five years to move to Toronto when his career will probably be finished.

Hedo will regret it if winning a title meant anything to him. And I'll be glad to see Toronto having his contract take up more than 1/6 of their cap while still being a mediocre franchise.

 

[The Professional Fan]

The notion that the Blazers made any mistake in the process of courting Turk is a fucking joke to me. This town is pretty much an unknown entity to the majority of the world. There is nothing wrong with bringing a FA here to get a real feel for the city. It truly could only HELP, not HURT. Jaynes is just a negative twat. That's what he does. The Blazers should feel NO SHAME in how they pursued Turk. Turk verbally agreed then backed out. The shame should be on him. I'm looking forward to him languishing in Toronto, paying way more taxes, dealing with much worse winters, and above all.......losing. Fuck him. He's lucky Toronto only comes to Portland once a year. I can promise you the 306 is going to give him a hearty FU when he gets introduced to the RG faithful.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

The notion that the Blazers made any mistake in the process of courting Turk is a fucking joke to me. This town is pretty much an unknown entity to the majority of the world. There is nothing wrong with bringing a FA here to get a real feel for the city. It truly could only HELP, not HURT. Jaynes is just a negative twat. That's what he does. The Blazers should feel NO SHAME in how they pursued Turk. Turk verbally agreed then backed out. The shame should be on him. I'm looking forward to him languishing in Toronto, paying way more taxes, dealing with much worse winters, and above all.......losing. Fuck him. He's lucky Toronto only comes to Portland once a year. I can promise you the 306 is going to give him a hearty FU when he gets introduced to the RG faithful.

Amen, brother! I couldn't have said it better myself.

What can you do when you've been given a commitment, binding or not, and the guy walks? Speaks to his integrity and we don't need a guy like that here.

 

[alex42083]

I can promise you the 306 is going to give him a hearty FU when he gets introduced to the RG faithful.

haha.. I can't wait for that. It's going to be a great time when Toronto rolls into town.

 

[The Professional Fan]

haha.. I can't wait for that. It's going to be a great time when Toronto rolls into town.

I, for one, am not going to forget this.

However, in hindsight, I'm glad he didn't sign with us. His character, obviously, does not fit here. He prefers losing over winning. He proved that by his actions. Why the fuck would I want a guy like that on my Blazers? It's a blessing that he rejected us, but he rejected us just the same.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his game falls apart starting next season. I remember the old Turkey Glue. Historically speaking, he's been a very average NBA player. And now he got paid. And he's playing for a bad team. I believe, in his mind, he has nothing to really lose any more.

 

[Ed O]

Good column.
Purely from a basketball standpoint, there is no way Hedo can argue that Toronto was best for him over Portland and Orlando.

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree.

From a WINNING perspective, that's almost certainly true... Toronto should be markedly worse than both Orlando and Portland over the next five years.

Hedo, though, would never be more than the third option in either Portland or Orlando, and it's possible he'd be the fourth option (Roy/Aldridge/Oden, Howard/Lewis/Nelson).

In Toronto, he has a chance to be the second-best player or, if Bosh leaves, the best player. If he thinks that he's never really had a chance to be "the man" in the NBA, this is his best chance. And, while I admire guys who want nothing but championships, I also recognize that players--just like ambitious people everywhere--don't want to have regrets about getting the most out of themselves that they can.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his game falls apart starting next season. I remember the old Turkey Glue. Historically speaking, he's been a very average NBA player. And now he got paid. And he's playing for a bad team. I believe, in his mind, he has nothing to really lose any more.

Historically speaking and this past season speaking. Hype clouded how non-special he is, IMO.

Ed O.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree.

From a WINNING perspective, that's almost certainly true... Toronto should be markedly worse than both Orlando and Portland over the next five years.

Hedo, though, would never be more than the third option in either Portland or Orlando, and it's possible he'd be the fourth option (Roy/Aldridge/Oden, Howard/Lewis/Nelson).

In Toronto, he has a chance to be the second-best player or, if Bosh leaves, the best player. If he thinks that he's never really had a chance to be "the man" in the NBA, this is his best chance. And, while I admire guys who want nothing but championships, I also recognize that players--just like ambitious people everywhere--don't want to have regrets about getting the most out of themselves that they can.

Ed O.

The "big fish in a small pond" syndrome.

Or in this case, the biggest turkey on a small chopping block.

 

[alex42083]

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree.

From a WINNING perspective, that's almost certainly true... Toronto should be markedly worse than both Orlando and Portland over the next five years.

Hedo, though, would never be more than the third option in either Portland or Orlando, and it's possible he'd be the fourth option (Roy/Aldridge/Oden, Howard/Lewis/Nelson).

In Toronto, he has a chance to be the second-best player or, if Bosh leaves, the best player. If he thinks that he's never really had a chance to be "the man" in the NBA, this is his best chance. And, while I admire guys who want nothing but championships, I also recognize that players--just like ambitious people everywhere--don't want to have regrets about getting the most out of themselves that they can.

Ed O.

Winning.. basketball.. they go hand in hand for me. If it's different for you, then I probably meant from a winning standpoint. I assume when you play ball, you want to win and play with good players, while getting paid well which he would have in Portland.

This decision by Hedo had nothing to do from a basketball standpoint. You never hear from his agent how great the Toronto team is, or how excited Hedo is by the prospect of playing with Bosh or Calderon.
Nope, it was all about his quality of life and getting paid from here on out in his career. Speaks volumes to me what his priorities are for his career.
It was nothing about being 'the man' somewhere else.

 

[Boob-No-More]

From a WINNING perspective, that's almost certainly true... Toronto should be markedly worse than both Orlando and Portland over the next five years.

Yep, Toronto has gone from 47 wins to 42 to 33. Portland has gone from 21 to 32 to 41 to 54. One team moving in the wrong direction, the other moving in the right direction. If winning matters at all to him, Hedo clearly chose the wrong one.

In Toronto, he has a chance to be the second-best player or, if Bosh leaves, the best player. If he thinks that he's never really had a chance to be "the man" in the NBA, this is his best chance. And, while I admire guys who want nothing but championships, I also recognize that players--just like ambitious people everywhere--don't want to have regrets about getting the most out of themselves that they can.

The problem is, Hedo has never demonstrated the skill set to be "the man". He is at his absolute best in a complimentary role - which is why I personally thought he'd be a great fit in Portland. We don't need another star, we need a guy who makes our current stars better. If Bosh leaves Toronto next summer, and there are strong indications he will, Hedo will be the best player on a team with no one to take advantage of his skills. With Hedo as "the man" Toronto will be one of the worst teams in the league - possibly THE worst.

The Raptors had one of the worst benches in the league last season, and were below average at two of the five starting positions. They needed to upgrade two of their starters (three if they didn't retain Marion) and completely re-tool their bench. In order to free up the cap space to sign Hedo, they had to renounce/waive five players - including Marion. So, they got a minor upgrade at what was already one of their three above average starting positions, and still have big question marks at the other two - and now have absolutely NO bench. And, when Bosh leaves, it will get real ugly, real fast. Hedo plays his best when he has other potent offensive weapons he can set-up, and when he has a dominant defensive big man backing him up on the other end. After Bosh leaves, who are Toronto's remaining "potent offensive weapons"? Who is their "dominant defensive big man"? They will have no one left to take advantage of Hedo's strengths, and no one left to cover up his weaknesses.

So, yeah, he'll be "the man" on one of the worst teams in the league with an albatross of a contract to hinder their rebuilding efforts.

BNM

 

[Ed O]

Winning.. basketball.. they go hand in hand for me. If it's different for you, then I probably meant from a winning standpoint. I assume when you play ball, you want to win and play with good players, while getting paid well which he would have in Portland.

Winning is important, sure. But it's not everything.

If you ask NBA players whether they'd rather make 10 all-star games and have a hall of fame career but not win a championship or sit at the end of the bench for a decade and ride the pines on the way to a championship... I bet most GOOD players would choose the former.

This decision by Hedo had nothing to do from a basketball standpoint. You never hear from his agent how great the Toronto team is, or how excited Hedo is by the prospect of playing with Bosh or Calderon.
Nope, it was all about his quality of life and getting paid from here on out in his career. Speaks volumes to me what his priorities are for his career.

*shrug* I don't think that a few sentences from an agent tell the whole story.

It was nothing about being 'the man' somewhere else.

How do you know?

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

So, yeah, he'll be "the man" on one of the worst teams in the league with an albatross of a contract to hinder their rebuilding efforts.

I'm not saying it's a good move (for either the Raptors or Hedo)... I'm just offering another (partial) reason for why he might have been attracted to the Raptors rather than Portland and Orlando.

Ed O.

 

[alex42083]

Winning is important, sure. But it's not everything.

If you ask NBA players whether they'd rather make 10 all-star games and have a hall of fame career but not win a championship or sit at the end of the bench for a decade and ride the pines on the way to a championship... I bet most GOOD players would choose the former.

Seems like a moot point since Hedo would've been a starter in either Toronto or Portland. He wouldn't be riding the pines here making $10 million while we make our championship run. The guy was going to be a big-time part of our team for the next few years.

He had a choice, making similar money, playing 30-35 minutes per game for either Toronto or Portland. And he chose the inferior team.

*shrug* I don't think that a few sentences from an agent tell the whole story.

How do you know?

Ed O.

Because we were told that it was basically about Toronto being more of a cosmopolitan city than Portland, and his wife would rather live there than Portland?
It was never about being the man. That's something you just assumed this morning.

 

[Ed O]

Seems like a moot point since Hedo would've been a starter in either Toronto or Portland. He wouldn't be riding the pines here making $10 million while we make our championship run. The guy was going to be a big-time part of our team for the next few years.

You equate "basketball standpoint" with "winning".

The two are simply not the same thing. Players can win, players can produce, or they can do both. I guarantee you that winning, for many players, is less important than succeeding individually.

Because we were told that it was basically about Toronto being more of a cosmopolitan city than Portland, and his wife would rather live there than Portland?
It was never about being the man. That's something you just assumed this morning.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm arguing that there is more to basketball decisions than just winning.

You're the one who claims there is no reason "purely from a basketball standpoint" to go to Toronto. That's just not true.

Ed O.

 

[alex42083]

You equate "basketball standpoint" with "winning".

The two are simply not the same thing. Players can win, players can produce, or they can do both. I guarantee you that winning, for many players, is less important than succeeding individually.

I don't doubt that at all when speaking generally about NBA players. It's just in this case, Hedo had a chance to succeed individually whether in Portland or Toronto. The difference being the Blazers are going to win a hell of a lot more than Toronto, but he chose losing.
He would've been given the same amount of minutes, and been given all the opportunities to be an individually successful player to help us win a title here. He refused it.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm arguing that there is more to basketball decisions than just winning.

You're the one who claims there is no reason "purely from a basketball standpoint" to go to Toronto. That's just not true.

Ed O.

Yep, when comparing Toronto and Portland from a basketball standpoint, and be given a starting role and make $10 mil a year, no reason to choose Toronto. And that's where we disagree, which is all right I guess.

 

[Ed O]

I don't doubt that at all when speaking generally about NBA players. It's just in this case, Hedo had a chance to succeed individually whether in Portland or Toronto. The difference being the Blazers are going to win a hell of a lot more than Toronto, but he chose losing.
He would've been given the same amount of minutes, and been given all the opportunities to be an individually successful player to help us win a title here. He refused it.

I tried to explain how the two situations are different:

-- Portland or Orlando: third option. Maybe fourth option.
-- Toronto: second option. Maybe first option.

You don't think that there's more opportunity to succeed individually when you're "the man" rather than when over half of the starting lineup is going to get more shots than you do?

Ed O.