Jews must make a choice

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Fuck Israel!

They're not our friends or our allies. Israel has no qualms with running spies and agents in the United States and stealing vital secrets. They've been doing it for years.
 
Fuck Israel!

They're not our friends or our allies. Israel has no qualms with running spies and agents in the United States and stealing vital secrets. They've been doing it for years.

Yeah I heard about the spy thing. Fucked up shit.

Anyway, I don't think being a friend of Israel means you need to unconditionally support them 100% of the time. Sometimes going for peace in the region is the best thing you can do for Israel.

Plus, in Israel, more people have a favorable view of Obama than of Bibi.
 
Fuck Israel!

They're not our friends or our allies. Israel has no qualms with running spies and agents in the United States and stealing vital secrets. They've been doing it for years.

Sly, I respectfully disagree. They've been a stalwart ally for us, oftentimes doing our dirty work in the Middle East so our fingerprints weren't on it.

Yes, they've spied on us and run agents (Pollard is the most notable example), but they come from a different point of view than do we. Our very existence isn't threatened every minute of every day. We don't have an entire region of wealthy, well-armed countries surrounding us who still have a declaration of war against us. They haven't used those secrets they've gained from us to hinder us; they've used them to maintain their own position. Don't bunch them in with the Chinese and Russians.

Before we liberated Iraq, it was the only true democracy in the Middle East. Their goal is simply to live in peace, not dominate a region. If they wished, they have the military capability to expel or kill every single Palestinian from the West Bank and Gaza. They've bent over backward to bring a two-state solution to the former Palestine.

We should support those countries whose political structures promote democracy. But getting back to the point of my post, Jews in America are among the most reliable voters (and contributors) to the Democratic Party. Jews also have a moral responsibility to support a homeland where another holocaust can't be imposed on them by their government. If the Democratic Party is going to favor the Palestinians at the expense of the Israelis, then American Jews need to make a choice.
 
There comes a time when we need to not bend over backwards to make Israel happy or do whatever they want for fear of the "jews" in the country revolting.

That's what we've been doing for what, 50 years now? Hasn't exactly made things better over there..maybe there's another way to deal with the situation then blindly backing Israel.
 
another retarded thread.

Yet you take the time to click on it, read (part) of it, and comment?

I think the general thought of this thread, the U.S. and Israel clash recently, is a good one. Obviously I believe Max is wrong in his partisan stance on the matter and the way he presents it, though.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...th-Michelle-and-the-girls-Israelis-claim.html

Obama snubbed Netanyahu for dinner with Michelle and the girls, Israelis claim
Benjamin Netanyahu was left to stew in a White House meeting room for over an hour after President Barack Obama abruptly walked out of tense talks to have supper with his family, it emerged on Thursday.

By Adrian Blomfield in Jerusalem
Published: 2:52PM GMT 25 Mar 2010


Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu had extended his stay in the US to try to resolve the dispute Photo: REUTERS The snub marked a fresh low in US-Israeli relations and appeared designed to show Mr Netanyahu how low his stock had fallen in Washington after he refused to back down in a row over Jewish construction in east Jerusalem.

The Israeli prime minister arrived at the White House on Tuesday evening brimming with confidence that the worst of the crisis in his country's relationship with the United States was over.

UN calls on Israel to ease Gaza blockade Over the previous two days, he had been feted by senior Republicans and greeted warmly by members of Congress. He had also received a standing ovation from the American Israel Public Affairs Affairs Committee, one of the most influential lobby groups in the United States.

But Mr Obama was less inclined to be so conciliatory. He immediately presented Mr Netanyahu with a list of 13 demands designed both to the end the feud with his administration and to build Palestinian confidence ahead of the resumption of peace talks. Key among those demands was a previously-made call to halt all new settlement construction in east Jerusalem.

When the Israeli prime minister stalled, Mr Obama rose from his seat declaring: "I'm going to the residential wing to have dinner with Michelle and the girls."

As he left, Mr Netanyahu was told to consider the error of his ways. "I'm still around," Mr Obama is quoted by Israel's Yediot Ahronot newspaper as having said. "Let me know if there is anything new."

For over an hour, Mr Netanyahu and his aides closeted themselves in the Roosevelt Room on the first floor of the White House to map out a response to the president's demands.

Although the two men then met again, at 8.20 pm, for a brief second meeting, it appeared that they failed to break the impasse. White House officials were quoted as saying that disagreements remained. Shimon Peres, the Israeli president, added: "Apparently they did not reach an understanding with the United States."

It was the second time this month that Mr Netanyahu has been at the receiving end of a US dinner-time snub.

A fortnight ago, Joe Biden the US vice president, arrived 90 minutes late for a dinner Mr Netanyahu hosted in Jerusalem after Israel announced plans to build 1,600 new homes in Ramat Shlomo, a Jewish settlement in the city's predominantly Arab east.

Erupting in fury, the United States described the decision to expand Ramat Shlomo as an "insult" that undermined Mr Biden's peace making efforts and demanded that it be reversed. Palestinians see east Jerusalem, captured by Israel during the 1967 Six Day War, as their future capital and regard any Jewish building there as a barrier to a peace settlement.

Mr Obama's mood further soured in the minutes before his meeting with Mr Netanyahu after it emerged that approval had been given for an even more contentious Jewish building project in the heart of one of east Jerusalem's Palestinian suburbs.

Sending a clear message of his displeasure, Mr Obama treated his guest to a series of slights. Photographs of the meeting were forbidden and an Israeli request to issue a joint-statement once it was over were turned down.

"There is no humiliation exercise that the Americans did not try on the prime minister and his entourage," Israel's Maariv newspaper reported. "Bibi received in the White House the treatment reserved for the president of Equatorial Guinea."

It is not the first time that Mr Netanyahu has been involved in a dinner-time snub, although he is arguably more used to delivering, rather than receiving, them.

In 1998, during his first term as Israeli prime minister, Mr Netanyahy angrily cancelled a dinner he was due to give with the then Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook.

Mr Cook had earned his host's ire after he briefly visited a new Jewish settlement in east Jerusalem with a Palestinian official and called for an end to all settlement construction in the parts of the city Israel occupied after the Six-Day war.
 

If he did that to a different leader, people would praise him for it. Or rather, if a Republican president did it to another leader of an ally country, people would applaud it. Taking a hard stance with allies, whatever. But when it's done to Israel, he gets criticized for it. I say good for him. We have these demands we want met. Hem, haw. Ok, fuck it. I'm gonna go eat. You wanna work towards this, I'll be back.
 
In order for peace to be achieved there, both sides have to give concessions. Not just one side. Both sides. When we stop favoring one side, is when we will have a chance at the peace table. Would you trust a judge who was partial? Why should both sides trust the US to negotiate peace there if the US isn't neutral?

Secondly I would point out, the President of the USA should never let a less powerful ally dictate our countries foreign policy. Ever.
 
Secondly I would point out, the President of the USA should never let a less powerful ally dictate our countries foreign policy. Ever.

Word.

BTW we all know where this is going don't we?


"MUSLIM!!!!!!!"
 
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You can't be serious, maxiep. Obama walks out on dinner and you're acting like he just revoked the billions of dollars we give Israel each year. If being an ally of Israel means that we stop superficially demanding that they stop building illegal settlements, then I guess we're not allies.
 
Our policy was exactly the same under Bush, and yet now people have a problem with it? That's the "liberal" media for you.
 
I don't see the big problem, maxiep. Is Israel going to stop buying warplanes from us? Are they going to stop accepting the money we give them to buy warplanes from us? Are they going to start siding with our enemies in the Middle East?

If your kid misbehaves, are you going to get down on your knees and apologize to him? Or are you going to send him to the Roosevelt Room w/ no dinner?

barfo
 
Yeah I heard about the spy thing. Fucked up shit.

Anyway, I don't think being a friend of Israel means you need to unconditionally support them 100% of the time. Sometimes going for peace in the region is the best thing you can do for Israel.

Plus, in Israel, more people have a favorable view of Obama than of Bibi.



Indeed. Think of it as a public service. If no one tells the retarded people that what they are doing is retarded, they may going along believing they aren't retarded.

:clap:
 
Fuck Israel!

They're not our friends or our allies. Israel has no qualms with running spies and agents in the United States and stealing vital secrets. They've been doing it for years.

The reverse is also true.

Just sayin'...
 
Sly, I respectfully disagree. They've been a stalwart ally for us, oftentimes doing our dirty work in the Middle East so our fingerprints weren't on it.

They have done dirty work yes, but not for "us". They have done it only when it serves their own goals and they have done it for traitors in our government.

It's called dirty work because it is illegal and un-Constitutional and immoral among other things. Not having our "fingerprints" on it doesn't fool anybody. Our support for Israel's inexcusable terrorism and genocide campaigns is why 9 billions Muslims hate us.

Fuck Israel.
 
If he did that to a different leader, people would praise him for it. Or rather, if a Republican president did it to another leader of an ally country, people would applaud it. Taking a hard stance with allies, whatever. But when it's done to Israel, he gets criticized for it. I say good for him. We have these demands we want met. Hem, haw. Ok, fuck it. I'm gonna go eat. You wanna work towards this, I'll be back.

I'll applaud him for it.

Apparently we finally have a President with stones. It seems like forever since RFK was murdered and the endless string of wusses took his place.

Between Obama and Hillary Clinton we finally have a couple leaders who have the courage to stand their ground and not cowtow to international bad guys.

Give me more of this, I love it! :clap:
 
w....t...f.. :sigh:

You should have seen his comments in the other thread... As has been stated many times Israel has illegally expanded (technically invaded because the settlements were outside the initial boundries) it's settlements multiple times through the years the use of lethal force. But hey....since they are our allies who cares.
 
You should have seen his comments in the other thread... As has been stated many times Israel has illegally expanded (technically invaded because the settlements were outside the initial boundries) it's settlements multiple times through the years the use of lethal force. But hey....since they are our allies who cares.

If they are our ally they can do no wrong! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ISRAEL ISNT PERFECT!!! YOU ARE NO FRIEND TO ISRAEL!

To say any different is simply anti-Semitic.

They should be able to do whatever they want, take our money, spy on us, expect the U.S. to veto any condemnation or resolution against Israel, and then not listen to our opinion. It is what allies do.
 
I know the Jews have a long and sacred history in Jerusalem but wouldn't everyone be far better off today if the Jews had decided to settle in Baja California in 1948?
 
I know the Jews have a long and sacred history in Jerusalem but wouldn't everyone be far better off today if the Jews had decided to settle in Baja California in 1948?

If you take a step back and take a look at how the the country we now know as Israel was created, it pretty insane.

They created a homeland in the middle of an area where the Muslim community had been for over 1000 years....think about that. That would be like the international community in the 2800's giving the majority of the SE US to the Seminole and Cherokee descendants.
 
If you take a step back and take a look at how the the country we now know as Israel was created, it pretty insane.

They created a homeland in the middle of an area where the Muslim community had been for over 1000 years....think about that. That would be like the international community in the 2800's giving the majority of the SE US to the Seminole and Cherokee descendants.


Maybe I'm missing your point, but A: isn't the Jewish faith significantly older and B: I could see why the Seminole and Cherokee descendants would want the land that was there families land a long time ago.

Isn't part of the problem, and pardon my ignorance of it, that for both sides to be "correct" (in their own eyes), the other side has to be destroyed, right? Or something like that.
 

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