Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.) (1 Viewer)

[BonesJones]

He’s definitely not lived up to the hype. Or even close to it. He’s kind of an ok 3-4th option and he is still only 22.

Definitely hasn't. But the key there is he's still 22, and nobody argues about his potential. Usually you can't get a guy that young with that high of a ceiling.

 

[BonesJones]

Either way, if Butler or Wiggins become available we need to pursue them.

 

[BonesJones]

Another scenario, and this probably is the most likely now that I’ve actually thought about it some; Butler gives Minnesota an ultimatum, me or KAT. Knowing full well that ownership won’t give up KAT, Butler essentially speeds up his exit.

Then you look at teams that could, and would, trade for Butler. You’d be looking for a playoff side with the ability to match salaries, while still giving Minnesota something they’d want. Financial relief (which could include taking on Dieng,) veterans, young assets, draft picks, whatever.

Would Portland have a shot? I think so. Thibs has control in Minnesota. It’s been established that he’s a Turner fan. I’ve maintained that Minnesota was our best bet in dumping him. Thibs is probably coaching for his job next season. If he’s forced to move Butler, he’ll want guys he can depend on, and since any team wanting Butler will also have to send a big contract back, it may as well be someone Thib admires.

Beyond that we could maybe even take on Dieng by including Moe, or maybe even Meyers considering Patton’s injury, on top of Evan, Chief, and our pick.

They'd definitely need shooting so I could see them wanting Leonard. We'd have to include multiple picks though... Probably three top 10 protected picks to even have a chance.
MIN Gets: Evan Turner, Al-Farouq Aminu, Meyers Leonard, 2019 POR 1st , 2021 POR 1st, 2023 POR 1st
POR Gets: Jimmy Butler, Gorgui Dieng

I'd do it. Minnesota gets out of Dieng's last year and Leonard could give them needed shooting. I dunno.

Lillard (36) / Curry (12)
McCollum (35) / Curry (13)
Butler (36) / Trent Jr. (10) / Curry (2)
Harkless (32) / Collins (16)
Nurkic (30) / Collins (10) / Dieng (8)

 

[BigGameDamian]

Evan Turner and any two players NOT named Dame, CJ, Nurk, Simons, or Leonard

LoL...You sound like Neil Olshey.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

There is no way you are getting Butler unless you include CJ. None.

They don't want our scraps. Someone else will offer more.

 

[BonesJones]

There is no way you are getting Butler unless you include CJ. None.

They don't want our scraps. Someone else will offer more.

Ehhh, like who? The only team I could see doing so is Boston (to keep Kyrie there) but they also have 3 wings near his level already.

So who? A disgruntled star on an expiring contract that's rumored to want to pair up with Kyrie in NY or BKN. I don't see teams offering that much.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Ehhh, like who? The only team I could see doing so is Boston (to keep Kyrie there) but they also have 3 wings near his level already.

So who? A disgruntled star on an expiring contract that's rumored to want to pair up with Kyrie in NY or BKN. I don't see teams offering that much.

Was Paul George not offered 3 immediate first round picks and any player not named dame or CJ from us?

The Pacers got Sabonis and Oladipo (who exploded after getting to Indy, but was still better than anyone we currently have outside of CJ or Dame).

The Lakers could offer Brandon Ingram and salaries for Butler. He isnt going to leave the Lakers and lebron next year. Although that would have to wait until they could include KCP.

Kawhi Leonard sat out for almost an entire year, with people scared of injury issues and still got Demar DeRozan.

 

[Boob-No-More]

This is going to be really interesting to watch. Butler is a total Thibs' guy and was MIN's savior. With him they made it to the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. Hard to believe they will give him up after just one season. Thibs is both coach and GM, but you have to wonder how much rope the MIN owners will give him.

Even with Butler, they have to realize they aren't getting past GSW. So, exactly how much young talent are they willing to give up just to keep Butler for one more year? If it eas up to Thibs, and Thibs alone, I bet they'd keep Butler and trade Wiggins. But, I think the owners value their youth more than Thibs does. Thibs already gave up Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine and Lauri Markkanen for Butler (and Justin Patton who has played exactly 4 minutes of NBA basketball and is out indefinitely). Are they willing to keep shedding their youth, this time in the form of Andrew Wiggins, to keep Butler happy? I think this may be where the draw they line in the sand and tell Thibs Butler has to go. They aren't going continue to mortgage their future for a guy who cannot seem to coexist with their younger players.

They have humored Thibs to this point. They approved the Butler trade, and let him overpay Taj Gibson. They let Thibs sign Derrick Rose, who basically quit on CLE. Now, they've let him sign Luol Deng, but those other moves did not cost them young players, like Butler has. I think if Butler plays the him or me ultimatum with Wiggins, I think MIN's owners tell Thibs it's time to show Butler the door and get the most they can get in return.

If that's the direction they choose, they will want young players and picks. Of course, they will also need ~$20 million in salary coming back, which they would prefer to be expiring, or close to it. IF you're POR would you do this trade:



Or maybe substitute a future 1st in place of of Simons or Trent Jr.?

What about this one:



Although ESPN lists Dieng as a C, he started all 82 games at PF next to KAT in 2016-17. Unfortunately, he's not a great fit next to Nurkic. Again, we could substitute a future 1st for one of Simons or Trant Jr. and also possibly take back a small contract, or two, from MIN to make the body counts match a little better. Those are all minor details. The real question is, how much of our youth, particularly Collins, Simons, Trent Jr and/or a future 1st are you willing to give up for Jimmy Butler, knowing Butler is only locked up for one season?

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Ok... I’m not going to just say you’re wrong. I would like some sort of explanation on how you got to that conclusion though. Wiggins is 22 and while he’s been a let down for a #1 pick he’s been pretty ‘ok’. Aminu is 28 (I think) and has only been a starter because the Blazers forwards have been passable at best...

Anyways. I have a hard time getting to ‘Aminu is better’ and it’s not even close is like really hard for me. So, would you mind expanding on that thought?

How 'bout this:

.........Aminu.....Wiggins
ORPM -0.37 .22 ADV Wiggins
DRPM 2.37 -1.84 ADV Aminu
RPM 2.00 -1.62 ADV Aminu
WINS 6.75 2.85 ADV Aminu

All Wiggins can do is shoot. Almost literally.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The Lakers could offer Brandon Ingram and salaries for Butler.

I wish I knew what people see in Brandon Ingram. Evidently the Lakers don't see it, because he's the first one (okay, second after Lonzo Ball) included in every trade scenario, which you'd think wouldn't be the case if he was the Young KD he was supposed to be.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If I was Thibs I'd bundle Butler with a bunch of their terrible salaries - like Dieng (who isn't so bad, but is overpaid, and Thibs refuses to play him) or Wiggins or Teague.

Yikes. Thibs is basically Stan Van Gundy, both coaching-wise and GM-wise. Except "wise" isn't really the right word...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Thibs would love Aminu. He might even like Evan Turner. He also might see a little bit of young Joakim in Zach Collins.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Thibs would love Aminu. He might even like Evan Turner. He also might see a little bit of young Joakim in Zach Collins.

See my second trade scenario above where he gets all three...

BNM

 

[hoopsjock]

Was Paul George not offered 3 immediate first round picks and any player not named dame or CJ from us?

With those three picks they could've had Donovan Mitchell and still had 2 picks to move up or take two players with.

The Lakers could offer Brandon Ingram and salaries for Butler. He isnt going to leave the Lakers and lebron next year. Although that would have to wait until they could include KCP.

If Butler demands a trade or says it's KAT or me then they aren't going to wait to trade him which pretty much eliminates the Lakers.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

With those three picks they could've had Donovan Mitchell and still had 2 picks to move up or take two players with.


If Butler demands a trade or says it's KAT or me then they aren't going to wait to trade him which pretty much eliminates the Lakers.

They could still get him but it would involve Hart, Ball, Ingram and Zubac. If they are willing to do that.

Fultz and Covington from the Sixers is better than anything we could offer. I dont see Jimmy leaving if he was with Embiid, Simmons and Saric either.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

How 'bout this:

.........Aminu.....Wiggins
ORPM -0.37 .22 ADV Wiggins
DRPM 2.37 -1.84 ADV Aminu
RPM 2.00 -1.62 ADV Aminu
WINS 6.75 2.85 ADV Aminu

All Wiggins can do is shoot. Almost literally.

So I took both players performances at age 22 and put there stats into a spread sheet and started comparing. I left the season / age / team spaces blank. I think the conclussion is AFA is the better overall player (and was at 22), Wiggins has a lot more offensive potential though.
So you're pretty much right. Here's the thing though, scoring is really important, and the fact Aminu isn't good at it & Harkless really isn't either is really hard for the Blazers to overcome when Dame and CJ aren't on there games. I have believed for a while the Blazers have to add a scoring punch at forward. You can't basically have two forwards that teams dare to shoot and beat them because while they may get hot a game here or there they over the course of the season or a series won't beat you very often.

 

[hoopsjock]

They could still get him but it would involve Hart, Ball, Ingram and Zubac. If they are willing to do that.

Fultz and Covington from the Sixers is better than anything we could offer. I dont see Jimmy leaving if he was with Embiid, Simmons and Saric either.

Do you think the Lakers would give up Hart, Ball, and Ingram for Butler?

Butler's not a great fit with Simmons either.

 

[calvin natt]

I’d trade CJ too but since we all know Olshey won’t consider it, especially for a possible rental, it’s a waste of time.

I don’t view Wiggins as a malcontent. His personality just doesn’t mesh with Butlers. I’ve thought ever since I saw him at the hoop summit that his demeanor was a lot like Batums. It can come off as indifferent, even when it’s not, and a shitty lead dog like Butler has no idea how to relate or connect. Pretty sure he had the same issue in Chicago with Mirotic.

Agree with this and from what I’ve heard from a good source Butler is the asshole and Wiggins is a pretty chill guy. Butler is a better player but Wiggins with our back court would be interesting yet a huge defensive issue.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Do you think the Lakers would give up Hart, Ball, and Ingram for Butler?

Butler's not a great fit with Simmons either.

Maybe. Depends on what Lebron wants.

Phoenix can offer more. TJ Warren and whoever else.

Denver could offer Gary Harris and someone.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

Agree with this and from what I’ve heard from a good source Butler is the asshole and Wiggins is a pretty chill guy. Butler is a better player but Wiggins with our back court would be interesting yet a huge defensive issue.

No way Butler is the asshole. He was in a Luke Bryan music video.

 

[hoopsjock]

Agree with this and from what I’ve heard from a good source Butler is the asshole and Wiggins is a pretty chill guy. Butler is a better player but Wiggins with our back court would be interesting yet a huge defensive issue.

Wiggins shot 33.1% from 3 last year. We need a wing that can shoot and plays defense. Wiggins does neither.

That being said if it was simply Turner and someone else we were giving up I'd be fine with it.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Agree with this and from what I’ve heard from a good source Butler is the asshole and Wiggins is a pretty chill guy. Butler is a better player but Wiggins with our back court would be interesting yet a huge defensive issue.

I think our team needs an asshole.

 

[Scalma]

Agree with this and from what I’ve heard from a good source Butler is the asshole and Wiggins is a pretty chill guy. Butler is a better player but Wiggins with our back court would be interesting yet a huge defensive issue.

Wiggins has his moments defensively. I think he has more to offer than he’s shown, or at least more consistency.

I also think Terry would take his game to another level offensively, just by giving him more trust. There’s still a ceiling he hasn’t hit yet. Thibs is holding him back. Wiggins is exactly the type of player Olshey likes to go after anyway, except this one has a pretty awful contract. Still, if we could dump Turner in the process, let’s go.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wiggins has his moments defensively. I think he has more to offer than he’s shown, or at least more consistency.

I also think Terry would take his game to another level offensively. There’s still a ceiling he hasn’t hit yet. Thibs is holding him back. Wiggins is exactly the type of player Olshey likes to go after anyway, except this one has a pretty awful contract. Still, if we could dump Turner in the process, let’s go.

Yeah generally NO likes to give out the awful contracts not trade for them. Ah, I sound so bitter heh.
So ready for some basketball.

 

[hoopsjock]

Yeah generally NO likes to give out the awful contracts not trade for them. Ah, I sound so bitter heh.
So ready for some basketball.

If you take out the summer of 2016 (I know, big if) I don't know if you can say that Olshey has given out a single bad contract, can you?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

If you take out the summer of 2016 (I know, big if) I don't know if you can say that Olshey has given out a single bad contract, can you?

Hmm, that's a good question. For the record I'm kind of poking fun at it (not to be taken like I'm all angry or anything lol). I think his deal with Nurk this summer was really fair. He hasn't really had the money after 2016 to make any big mistakes. Before that I can't really think of anything too crazy.

 

[hoopsjock]

Hmm, that's a good question. For the record I'm kind of poking fun at it (not to be taken like I'm all angry or anything lol). I think his deal with Nurk this summer was really fair. He hasn't really had the money after 2016 to make any big mistakes. Before that I can't really think of anything too crazy.

They had tons of money his first year in Portland and the summer of 2015.

 

[BlayZa]

Evan Turner and any two players NOT named Dame, CJ, Nurk, Simons, or Leonard

err what?

tbh i almost hit the 'report' button instead of the reply button.

not meyers?

explain yourself.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

They had tons of money his first year in Portland and the summer of 2015.

Well I said after 2016 they haven't had much money.
Did he do anything all that good OR bad with all that money in 2012 or 2015? On memory is seems like he didn't really do anything all that spectacular either way. 2015 they lost LA and basically went young and cheap, then they had some success and we got 2016!
I have always tried to give credit that in 2015 though they didn't spend money, they rebuilt the entire team basically from scratch and NO did a good job of finding young players to go around dame. That the Blazers made the playoffs that year was impressive.

 

[KingSpeed]

Turner, Aminu, and a lottery protected pick for Wiggins.

Aminu alone is better than Wiggins. And I say no to Butler. Butler has an attitude problem. He wanted out of Chicago and now he wants out of Timberwolves? No thanks.