Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[blue9]

Basically, if HOU gets Butler, they get an edge on GSW in the back court...but still have no way to counter GSW's front court. So you negate Curry/Klay but get steamrolled by Durant/Green. And you're out FOUR 1st round picks. Do it, HOU! DOOOOOO IIIIIIIIIIT!!!

 

[Scalma]

They almost beat GS but have lost Ariza, Mbah A Moute, and whoever they have to give up in a Butler trade.

Butler is an iso player that thrives creating for himself, which he is pretty dang good at. In Houston's offense he'd have to he more of a spot up shooter which he isn't quite as good at. I'm not saying it wouldn't work but it isn't a slam dunk to be great either.

Butler is good as a spot up shooter. He was near 40% on catch and shoot from outside last year, and 44% the year before. He’d be a massive addition to Houston.

But it’s being reported that Minnesota isn’t interested in their offer, which is 4 firsts, Knight and Criss.

 

[Hoopguru]

Butler is good as a spot up shooter. He was near 40% on catch and shoot from outside last year, and 44% the year before. He’d be a massive addition to Houston.

But it’s being reported that Minnesota isn’t interested in their offer, which is 4 firsts, Knight and Criss.

His value is going up and the Wolves will get a solid Vet & some before trade deadline.
Butler and Thibs have a strategy that helps both...pretty easy to see, imo.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Pinwheel1]

Butler is good as a spot up shooter. He was near 40% on catch and shoot from outside last year, and 44% the year before. He’d be a massive addition to Houston.

But it’s being reported that Minnesota isn’t interested in their offer, which is 4 firsts, Knight and Criss.

Yeah that is a great deal for Houston especially if they are not high on Knight and his 15 million dollar contract next year.
They are basically saying they can find 2nd round picks and cheap free agents that are as good as the 4 late 1st round picks. And they are probably right.

 

[Hoopguru]

Yeah that is a great deal for Houston especially if they are not high on Knight and his 15 million dollar contract next year.
They are basically saying they can find 2nd round picks and cheap free agents that are as good as the 4 late 1st round picks. And they are probably right.

I really like CJ but I could see the Wolves interested in him and some for Butler and some. I just don't know if they would trade to their own division. If they wanted CJ enough?
If I'm PDX I wouldn't do it unless they had a commitment from Butler that he would stay for at least 2 years.

 

[BBert]

A late first round pick every other year for 7 years is no where near worth Jimmy Butler. I'm scratching my head at the media freaking out like that would be some great haul.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

A late first round pick every other year for 7 years is no where near worth Jimmy Butler. I'm scratching my head at the media freaking out like that would be some great haul.

You're assuming that they're going to be late picks. Paul is aging and fragile. Melo sucks. Butler could leave. No guarantee that the Rockets stay good. Could end up being 3 lottery picks.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

A late first round pick every other year for 7 years is no where near worth Jimmy Butler. I'm scratching my head at the media freaking out like that would be some great haul.

This is similar with Laker fans and their pitches for Dame. Those picks are worthless in a deal when you're the team shipping out the franchise player -- Dame+Lebron, those picks will always land in the late 20s.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I really like CJ but I could see the Wolves interested in him and some for Butler and some. I just don't know if they would trade to their own division. If they wanted CJ enough?
If I'm PDX I wouldn't do it unless they had a commitment from Butler that he would stay for at least 2 years.

I would not think there is much difference between trading within the division and trading within the conference. I guess one possible extra game a year.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You're assuming that they're going to be late picks. Paul is aging and fragile. Melo sucks. Butler could leave. No guarantee that the Rockets stay good. Could end up being 3 lottery picks.

Exactly, people said the same thing about Brooklyn picks be worth little. Sure Houston could have late picks but 5 and 7 years from now is an enternaty in NBA. Those picks would be great assets, there value is fluid. But today thetvalue is much better than the junk they gave up for Butler a year ago.

 

[blue9]

A late first round pick every other year for 7 years

There is no way to know that the picks beyond the first one are going to be late picks. I'd take the gamble that at least one of those picks will be pretty good...especially the ones that are further down the road. And even if MIN doesn't use all of the picks, they have trade value. If I'm MIN I make this trade, package the first two picks in trades to get incrementally better, and hold out hope that you hit the jackpot with the last two picks.
This HOU roster is going to blow up sooner rather than later. And HOU won't have many tools to add talent since they'll have traded 7 years worth of draft picks (and can't trade the picks in between), and will have over $100M tied up in CP3/Harden/Butler (if they're able to re-sign Butler). CP3 is going to be an untradeable anchor. I can see HOU being good for another 2-3 years, but if they trade all their picks I don't see them being good beyond that.

Edit: Looks like several other people already said basically the same thing.

 

[hoopsjock]

If Butler re-signed for the max with Houston they'd be over the cap with 3 players (Paul, Harden, Butler) and over the tax line when adding their 4th highest paid player (Capela).

Sure that is a great 4 players to have but given Butler and Paul don't usually last a full season, they wouldn't scare me much at all. Of course they'd get some ring chasers but it would be really difficult to win that way.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

They almost beat GS but have lost Ariza, Mbah A Moute, and whoever they have to give up in a Butler trade.

Butler is an iso player that thrives creating for himself, which he is pretty dang good at. In Houston's offense he'd have to he more of a spot up shooter which he isn't quite as good at. I'm not saying it wouldn't work but it isn't a slam dunk to be great either.

Agreed it's no slam dunk they win or contend or it works well with Butler. They took a big step back and we're behind GS last year anyways. I do think it's a slam dunk they have a better chance than now and a better chance than keeping the picks. Worth the risk if you are trying to maximize chance of a title. This move does increase their chance of a Brooklyn disaster so if I'm the owner I'd be more reluctant than the GM or fans to do this.

 

[blue9]

Also, I really wanna see Jimmy strangle James because he refuses to play defense!

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm good with it. I hope they do it. It would kill the future of Houston, and that team isn't good enough to beat Golden State.

 

[BBert]

You're assuming that they're going to be late picks. Paul is aging and fragile. Melo sucks. Butler could leave. No guarantee that the Rockets stay good. Could end up being 3 lottery picks.

I thought they were protected?

 

[BBert]

You're assuming that they're going to be late picks. Paul is aging and fragile. Melo sucks. Butler could leave. No guarantee that the Rockets stay good. Could end up being 3 lottery picks.

And yes I am assuming that.

Houston has historically found a way to stay relevant for how long now?

 

[BBert]

Houston with El Beardo plus Jimmy Butler doesn't need Chris Paul and washed up Melo to be a playoff team. Seriously. Those two are no where near the end of their careers. No way they would fall into the lottery.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If Butler re-signed for the max with Houston they'd be over the cap with 3 players (Paul, Harden, Butler) and over the tax line when adding their 4th highest paid player (Capela).

Yeah, was just looking at Harden/Paul's existing deals. 4 years from now, Houston will be paying over $87M to just those two. Add Butler on a max, and by that point it's probably over $125M.

 

[Boob-No-More]

They almost beat GS but have lost Ariza, Mbah A Moute, and whoever they have to give up in a Butler trade.

I know his contract was hideous and they are probably glad to be rid of it, but they also lost Ryan Anderson. They basically replaced Anderson's shitty defense and .386 3-point shooting with Carmelo Anthony's shitty defense and .357 3-point shooting. Plus, they lost their two best wing defenders in Ariza and Mbah a Moute.

Man getting Melo was STOOPID. I would be surprised if there wasn't some handshake agreement between Morey and CP3 that he'd get his buddy Melo, too. Melo has been going downhill for years and the slope it getting steeper every year. It's just one stat, but look at his PER for the last 7 seasons:

24.8
24.4
21.5
20.3
17.9
12.7
9.0

Let's graph that, shall we:



Notice any trends?

Morey is desperate to get Butler for his defense alone and is willing to mortgage the future for a possible 1-year rental.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I thought they were protected?

Not a whole lot of protections available on 4 picks in 7 years when the Stepien rule is involved. I don't know if they have any other 1st round picks from any other teams, but if they don't, then the only protections they could put on those picks would be non-conveyance, which I doubt the Wolves would accept.

 

[BBert]

Also, I really wanna see Jimmy strangle James because he refuses to play defense!

My first thought when I heard the Butler to Houston offer was if Butler keeps getting bent about teammates not playing defense, he's going to love Melo and Harden, haha. Plus, now you've got three ISO players in the starting lineup.

I think this trade is bad for Minny, and won't work for Houston.

So I hope they do it.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I thought they were protected?

To trade all four, you have to make sure they are conveyed. They could put all four as lottery protected, reverting to second round picks but the value of the package would be little.

Minnesota should find a third team that would want the picks. Maybe Cleveland for Keven Love?

 

[illmatic99]

 

[CupWizier]

You're assuming that they're going to be late picks. Paul is aging and fragile. Melo sucks. Butler could leave. No guarantee that the Rockets stay good. Could end up being 3 lottery picks.

In deals like this though you play the odds and Houston has been able to stay competitive for awhile now as this will likely be there 7th year in a row of making the playoffs. I think the odds are far better they won't be lottery picks.

 

[BBert]

Hahaha. Yeah sure. Illness. Right.

 

[hoopsjock]

I think Houston is one of the few teams that Minnesota could play hard ball with because if Morey wants Butler this badly then Minnesota has a little bit of leverage here.

If I'm Minnesota I'd demand they have to take Dieng with Butler which would basically force Houston to have to give them Gordon, Tucker, and Knight plus 3 1st round picks (this way there could be some light protections on the earlier ones without it getting too complicated). Minnesota would get a couple of veterans that could really help them this season plus have a stockpile of future picks. Houston would be gutted just to get another star but that is the type of move Morey has a history of going for.

 

[hoopsjock]

In deals like this though you play the odds and Houston has been able to stay competitive for awhile now as this will likely be there 7th year in a row of making the playoffs. I think the odds are far better they won't be lottery picks.

I don't know about that. If one of the picks is 2025 (which it would pretty much have to be) then during the 2024-25 season Harden would be 35 if he's still there, Paul would most likely be retired, and Butler even if he signed a max extension the contract would be over before that season and he'd also be 35. Without 3 of the 6 1st rounders in the years leading up to that draft that limits a lot of options for staying good.

There really isn't anyway to know who's right but both sides have valid points.

 

[CupWizier]

I don't know about that. If one of the picks is 2025 (which it would pretty much have to be) then during the 2024-25 season Harden would be 35 if he's still there, Paul would most likely be retired, and Butler even if he signed a max extension the contract would be over before that season and he'd also be 35. Without 3 of the 6 1st rounders in the years leading up to that draft that limits a lot of options for staying good.

There really isn't anyway to know who's right but both sides have valid points.

Unless the TWolves hate their fans though, dumping a player for future picks can also put them back into rebuilding mode. If I have a player of Butlers caliber, I want an all star level player coming back to go along with my young talent.