Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[hoopsjock]

I don’t think Wiggins is lazy, just passive. He reminded me of Batum in that department when I saw him at the hoop summit. I don’t think Thibs is the right coach for him either. I think he would do much better under someone who empowers their players more. Someone like Stevens, Stotts, etc.

Also, with Batum at least he was a good defender. I can live with passiveness on offense if the effort is there on defense but I can't live with it if you're also a poor defender. With his talent he should be a lock down defender.

 

[Sarni]

Also, with Batum at least he was a good defender. I can live with passiveness on offense if the effort is there on defense but I can't live with it if you're also a poor defender. With his talent he should be a lock down defender.

Both Towns and Wiggins were considered good defenders back in college. There might be something wrong with Timberwolves that's causing their downfall in that department because both definitely have the tools to be good.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Jimmy may be an ass, but there is no denying his impact on the game. With Jimmy on the floor, MIN ranks 1st in Offensive Efficiency and 14th in Defensive Efficiency:





With Jimmy of the the court, MIN drops to 10th in Offensive Efficiency and dead last, by a significant amount, in Defensive Efficiency:





Jimmy's net impact is +14.1 points per 100 possessions. They score 8 more points per 100 possessions and give up 6.1 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the floor than without him.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Do you think guys are who they are at wiggins point in his career? You think Dame could take wiggins and get more out of him? Nurkic was considered basically a guy who quit and got fat and didnt care, Dame helped him turn around his career pretty quick.

Not to mention that Dame already has history with giving Wiggins career advice.

 

[Sarni]

If Minnesota add a top-5 protected 2019 pick or give us swap rights for 2019 & 2020, do you pull a trigger? It would somewhat protect us from losing Butler in next year's free agency (although I still believe he would stay here). It's fair for Minnesota too as they would get a younger player on a long term deal which would fit their team (they would be good with CJ as he would add shooting and put even more emphasis on no defense which would allow them to become a team with 156-148 scorelines every other night).

Basically it becomes CJ for Butler and a protected 2019 first round pick/swap rights.

 

[illmatic99]

Would not give up CJ period. Most I would throw in are future picks and ET.

I'd need some serious intel on Jimmy behind the scenes before trading for him. These antics he's pulled over the past month have totally soured me on the guy. I love Jimmy the player (except when he goes into selfish mode, especially this season so far), but Jimmy off the court is scaring the hell out of me.

I'd try to get Dame/CJ/Jimmy's agent/Jimmy etc on a call and sort it out before making a move, and if it all checks out, go for it.

It could become a Sheed --> Pistons kinda move, or a ZBo --> Knicks kinda move.

 

[Hoopguru]

Would not give up CJ period. Most I would throw in are future picks and ET.

I'd need some serious intel on Jimmy behind the scenes before trading for him. These antics he's pulled over the past month have totally soured me on the guy. I love Jimmy the player (except when he goes into selfish mode, especially this season so far), but Jimmy off the court is scaring the hell out of me.

I'd try to get Dame/CJ/Jimmy's agent/Jimmy etc on a call and sort it out before making a move, and if it all checks out, go for it.

It could become a Sheed --> Pistons kinda move, or a ZBo --> Knicks kinda move.

I think they will get more than ET and a few picks. They will want a starting 2/3 that can hit 3's.
I could see Miami giving them Richardson, even Wash giving Beal. Id give them CJ rather than Collins and Id need assurance that Butler would stay for at least three years.

 

[kjironman1]

Man I don't know, he's only 23 so you would think he could snap out of it at some point but I saw the same issues back at Kansas. He just stops playing sometimes. This is the 1st year of a 5 year, $146.5 million contract, no way he's worth even half of that.

He literally has no elite skills other than his size and athleticism which are being wasted because he's lazy.

They gave Wiggins way too much money. No question there. Doesn't really seem like KAT is worth a max at this point either?

 

[hoopsjock]

They gave Wiggins way too much money. No question there. Doesn't really seem like KAT is worth a max at this point either?

I'm pretty sure KAT scored almost every time he posted Aminu. The question becomes why isn't he getting the ball more? Especially when Butler is out, they should've given us a huge dose of KAT. Instead he went long periods without even touching the ball. Is that coaching? Is it KAT being too passive? It's probably both.

 

[illmatic99]

I'm pretty sure KAT scored almost every time he posted Aminu. The question becomes why isn't he getting the ball more? Especially when Butler is out, they should've given us a huge dose of KAT. Instead he went long periods without even touching the ball. Is that coaching? Is it KAT being too passive? It's probably both.

KAT looks like he's given up. Understandable given the environment. Guessing this will turn around once Jimmy is traded.

 

[kjironman1]

I'll admit there are parts of this thread i have missed. But to the point.
Right now i would question bringing Butler here. But the TWolves have lost all power in the bargain. So the price is going down. Do we get him for nothing? Then yes. Remember. The Blazers don't have any cap room and Paul Allen is no longer here. Jody doesn't really like basketball and isn't really interested.
So many implications.

 

[kjironman1]

Reading this thread makes your head spin.
I'm gonna leave this kind of thing to people more knowledgeable than i am on these issues.

 

[Boob-No-More]

They gave Wiggins way too much money. No question there. Doesn't really seem like KAT is worth a max at this point either?

KAT has tremendous talent, he just seems to lack the drive to be great. Put Mason Plumlee's motor in KATs body and he'd be the best big man in the league and well worth that max extension. As is, people are going to question if he's worth it.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

KAT looks like he's given up. Understandable given the environment. Guessing this will turn around once Jimmy is traded.

So it’s all jimmys fault? That seems....convenient.

KAT has always been soft to me, despite his numbers. Butlers hate didn’t come from nowhere.

 

[illmatic99]

So it’s all jimmys fault? That seems....convenient.

KAT has always been soft to me, despite his numbers. Butlers hate didn’t come from nowhere.

It's on everybody, not just Jimmy. Jimmy created the toxic environment, Thibs enabled it, KAT is passively taking it all in until the drama ends. He sees the end game-- he knows Thibs/Jimmy will be gone and is mailing it in.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think the reality is obvious--Butler is the solution to all of Minny's problems not the cause of them. Ergo, they should not trade Butler; they should trade the guys with whom he has issues: KAT and Wiggins.





Problem solved.

 

[beast blazer]

"Gotten out of cj contract" = Losing CJ for nothing.

Losing CJ for nothing = STUPID.

"Gotten out of cj contract" = Losing CJ for nothing.

Losing CJ for nothing = STUPID.

That opinion depends on how much you think cj contributes to overall team success. Also , the shedding of his salary could be used for player retention(guys we may otherwise lose).

 

[Scalma]

It's on everybody, not just Jimmy. Jimmy created the toxic environment, Thibs enabled it, KAT is passively taking it all in until the drama ends. He sees the end game-- he knows Thibs/Jimmy will be gone and is mailing it in.

KAT was passive before Jimmy even got to Minnesota. Same with Wiggins. Yeah Jimmy changed the environment, he made them into a legit team. Then he had enough of carrying players that couldn’t care less whether they won or lost. Minnesotas hesitatation to max him out probably had something to do with it as well.

 

[BBert]

I'll admit there are parts of this thread i have missed. But to the point.
Right now i would question bringing Butler here. But the TWolves have lost all power in the bargain. So the price is going down. Do we get him for nothing? Then yes. Remember. The Blazers don't have any cap room and Paul Allen is no longer here. Jody doesn't really like basketball and isn't really interested.
So many implications.

I just can't see Interim Ownership making any kind of move for Butler. It just seems like a waste of time to even think about it happening.

 

[Natebishop3]

I just can't see Interim Ownership making any kind of move for Butler. It just seems like a waste of time to even think about it happening.

I don't know if I can see them spending any money at all until the ownership gets settled.

 

[hoopsjock]

I think the reality is obvious--Butler is the solution to all of Minny's problems not the cause of them. Ergo, they should not trade Butler; they should trade the guys with whom he has issues: KAT and Wiggins.

View attachment 23127

View attachment 23128

Problem solved.

Just to warn you the ESPN Trade Machine is not working properly when it comes to KAT's poison pill contract. I thought maybe because it says he has 0 years remaining but I tried a trade with Devin Booker too who says he has 6 years left and should have a poison pill contract as well and it accepts it. Neither of those trades really works.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Just to warn you the ESPN Trade Machine is not working properly when it comes to KAT's poison pill contract. I thought maybe because it says he has 0 years remaining but I tried a trade with Devin Booker too who says he has 6 years left and should have a poison pill contract as well and it accepts it. Neither of those trades really works.

Oh, but I was so close...

All right, fine. We'll work the Kings into it somehow to satisfy the PPP requirements.

Some people are never satisfied...

 

[hoopsjock]

Oh, but I was so close...

All right, fine. We'll work the Kings into it somehow to satisfy the PPP requirements.

Some people are never satisfied...

You'll get it someday, keep trying!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You'll get it someday, keep trying!

Actually not tough to add a few salaries to make it work, if we were so inclined. Towns' extension is an additional 190M over 5 years, so his incoming value for a trade would be around 33M. An outgoing trade value of ~$61M is more than enough to facilitate the in/out value differences on the PPP.

 

[kjironman1]

Actually not tough to add a few salaries to make it work, if we were so inclined. Towns' extension is an additional 190M over 5 years, so his incoming value for a trade would be around 33M. An outgoing trade value of ~$61M is more than enough to facilitate the in/out value differences on the PPP.

View attachment 23136

So essentially switch teams.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So essentially switch teams.

...while keeping Dame, Nurk, and Collins, and not picking up the "cancer" known as Butler.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way.

Of course, it's all a joke, because there's no way the Wolves trade Towns.

 

[kjironman1]

...while keeping Dame, Nurk, and Collins, and not picking up the "cancer" known as Butler.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way.

Of course, it's all a joke, because there's no way the Wolves trade Towns.

I should have used the darn green font. Yes i was joking also.

 

[illmatic99]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ake-a-toll-on-lifeless-minnesota-timberwolves

Thibodeau's tunnel-vision approach to the season, acting like nothing is wrong while his team becomes the laughingstock of the league, is naive at best and negligent at worst. And the rest of the Timberwolves have no choice but to show up to work every day, waiting for all of this to be over while putting on a good public face and saying all the right things.

 

[illmatic99]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/11/5/18063864/jimmy-butler-timberwolves-trade-drama-ruining-season

Thibodeau is guilty of malpractice for allowing this to happen. He’s the don of the team — he controls the coaching staff and the front office. There’s nowhere else to pass blame. Even if he handles Butler appropriately from here, he should be on the next train out of town. This is as sloppy as anything Phil Jackson did in New York. This might actually prevent Thibodeau from ever being a head coach in the NBA again. Does he realize this? Does he realize how badly the Butler fiasco has ruined his reputation?

 

[Strenuus]

Towns is actual trash on defense. I don't want that lazy bum on our team.