Joe Cronin vs. Dame Dolla

[Hoopguru]

Boston is prepared to give us Jaylen Brown and you're talking about the likes of Duncan and Lowry? Those guys aren't worth anything, my guy.

Why would we give credit for that?

If Dame is good with Bean Town and we can get a player like Brown...bingo, bango, bongo baby!

 

[blazerfan11]

Trade slow Joe.

 

[andalusian]

Dame is making me cheer for the Vulcans now. I sure hope that if Portland gets a proper value they come in and veto anything that makes his agent happy to send a message.

I feel dirty.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Boston gets Dame

Houston gets Brown

Blazers get Jabari Smith Jr, Amen Thompson, and Tari Eason

Done deal?

I think we want picks and Houston would certainly be more inclined to give Jabari and Eason. Thompson probably has the highest ceiling but arguably the worst fit next to Scoot. Not sure we should be worried about fit right now. I think we can get one of Thompson or Jabari plus Eason. We'll need picks coming back as well. One or two provided by Boston at a minimum.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I would agree that a deal sending Dame to Boston and returning Amen and Eason (along with other pieces) would probably be better than anything we could get from Miami, but I remain dubious that that is actually available.

100% Boston would give Brown for Lillard.

90% Houston would offer two of those guys for Brown.

Figuring out the picks is a tad more difficult. I think you can get two from Boston and at least one from Houston.

 

[maxiep]

I am with Joe for the most part. I think he did the best he could to find Dame some vet pieces to grant his wishes if you will for a more veteran team, but he was not going to let us get ripped off then and that will be the same, now. I don't wish ill on Dame of course but the sooner he is gone the better for us honest tbh; we can then start focusing on who will actually lace them up for us this season.

I think we have to gird ourselves for a long slog that may not be settled this summer. Yes, the sooner this gets settled the better for the team in the short term. However, the short term isn't our focus. This trade is a franchise-altering move. You need to get it right. That is going to take time, and in the words of the Rolling Stones, time is on our side...

 

[inconceivable]

I think we want picks and Houston would certainly be more inclined to give Jabari and Eason. Thompson probably has the highest ceiling but arguably the worst fit next to Scoot. Not sure we should be worried about fit right now. I think we can get one of Thompson or Jabari plus Eason. We'll need picks coming back as well. One or two provided by Boston at a minimum.

So what you're saying is

Boston gets Dame

Houston gets Brown

Portland gets Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason, 2FRPs from Boston

Hmmm. That would be the Full rebuild mode where we probably trade Grant and Nurk

Alternatively,

Just get Brown and 2FRPs from Boston for Dame excluding Houston altogether.

Scoot, Ant
Shae, Tisse
Jaylen, Rayan
Jerami, Kris
Nurk, Badji

If Scoot is advertised and Sharpe realizes his potential, Ant can still get better, we know what we get out of Tisse, Kris and/or Rayan turns out to be a solid 5-8 rotation player, or better. . Upgrade the C. . In 2-3 years as other teams get old, we dominate

 

[Natebishop3]

So what you're saying is

Boston gets Dame

Houston gets Brown

Portland gets Jabari Smith Jr, Tari Eason, 2FRPs from Boston

Hmmm. That would be the Full rebuild mode where we probably trade Grant and Nurk

Alternatively,

Just get Brown and 2FRPs from Boston for Dame excluding Houston altogether.

Scoot, Ant
Shae, Tisse
Jaylen, Rayan
Jerami, Kris
Nurk, Badji

If Scoot is advertised and Sharpe realizes his potential, Ant can still get better, we know what we get out of Tisse, Kris and/or Rayan turns out to be a solid 5-8 rotation player, or better. . Upgrade the C. . In 2-3 years as other teams get old, we dominate

Man... Houston has to toss in more than that. Smith has been a lowkey bust so far, and Eason is a role player. They need to put in at least a pick or two.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don’t understand why Cronin is getting all the blame. He definitely did not act unilaterally. I think when the decision to keep or trade your franchise GOAT, this goes all the way up to ownership. This all reeks of Jody/Bert. What owner would idly watch while their GM ran out your franchise player? Do you think Mark Cuban would let Nico Harrison run Luka out without intervening? Do you think Mat Ishbia would let James Jones trade Devin Booker without his approval?

you must be reading a different S2 forum than I am; or a different RealGM. The majority of the blame for this is landing on Dame. Certainly, a big majority of the vitriol, venom, and bile has been directed at Dame. It's been rather intense, it's increasing, and it's locked in a feedback loop

my only contribution to this thread was a response to what Sly said he heard from a solid source: that being that Cronin fed Dame and his agent some pie-in-the-sky malarkey in the meeting on the 26th, and that Dame's agent was able to reveal as malarkey rather quickly. If that's all accurate, Cronin did fuck up and some of Dame's reported intransigence could be the result

 

[SlyPokerCat]

I told ya, brah, I’m allergic to cats.

I'm not a cat. I'm Batman.

 

[Natebishop3]

you must be reading a different S2 forum than I am; or a different RealGM. The majority of the blame for this is landing on Dame. Certainly, a big majority of the vitriol, venom, and bile has been directed at Dame. It's been rather intense, it's increasing, and it's locked in a feedback loop

my only contribution to this thread was a response to what Sly said he heard from a solid source: that being that Cronin fed Dame and his agent some pie-in-the-sky malarkey in the meeting on the 26th, and that Dame's agent was able to reveal as malarkey rather quickly. If that's all accurate, Cronin did fuck up and some of Dame's reported intransigence could be the result

I have this theory that both Dame and Joe knew that it was time to move on, and they have been trying to outmaneuver each other to put one or other in a corner so that they have to be the bad guy. Joe is winning right now. He got Dame to request the trade and Dame is looking really bad right now. If Joe had just traded Dame without the trade request, he looks like a total bust of a GM. Someone said he'd be the next Billy King.

 

[inconceivable]

Man... Houston has to toss in more than that. Smith has been a lowkey bust so far, and Eason is a role player. They need to put in at least a pick or two.

You're right, Houston needs to add 2FRPs

 

[Natebishop3]

You're right, Houston needs to add 2FRPs

If Amen isn't in the trade, they definitely need to add a pick or two. If Amen is in the trade instead of Eason, then they wouldn't need to include picks.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

100% Boston would give Brown for Lillard.

90% Houston would offer two of those guys for Brown.

Figuring out the picks is a tad more difficult. I think you can get two from Boston and at least one from Houston.

As much as I want that to be true, I refuse to get my hopes up.

 

[wizenheimer]

I have this theory that both Dame and Joe knew that it was time to move on, and they have been trying to outmaneuver each other to put one or other in a corner so that they have to be the bad guy. Joe is winning right now. He got Dame to request the trade and Dame is looking really bad right now. If Joe had just traded Dame without the trade request, he looks like a total bust of a GM. Someone said he'd be the next Billy King.

theories-r-us these days

I don't know who is winning the PR battle right now. Certainly Joe is in Portland, but he's not, as far as I can see, in the national media/twitterverse/blog-o-sphere. There are a lot of people saying that the Miami package is 'good enough'. It's bullshit of course, and mostly background noise. I think Pat Riley has manipulated national PR better, but he has all kinds of connections Cronin doesn't. Being an NBA icon has advantages

I think, unfortunately, that Dame and Cronin have put each other in boxes. Cronin does not have to trade Dame under a fast timeline. That extension Dame signed is the walls of the box he's in. But Dame's seeming intransigence on where he wants to go has put Cronin in a box. The Blazers need to get a better return than Miami can offer, but Herro's value is limited and any competing bids for Dame are going to be weak if Dame telegraphs he'll be unhappy on those teams

it's a box-trap-stand-off right now and somehow, somebody, needs to negotiate a compromise or it will get really really ugly. Problem seems to be that Dame is really pissed. Maybe he has reason, maybe he doesn't, but the Miami or bust stance is hobbling the Blazers big-time. At least it is on the surface; there could be good news bubbling in Cronin's cauldron

 

[Natebishop3]

theories-r-us these days

 

[tykendo]

All you Dame haters, masked by the " I like Dame, BUT !" B.S. , Who are siding with Forked Tongue Joe , need to open up your ears, because it was Joe who said he would push the chips in to build around Dame. And he's doubled down on the committed to build around Dame B.S. as well, yet his actions say otherwise. Jody should fire his ass . Dame EARNED HIS MONEY, and any other team would have paid him for his talents royally as well. So knock off the "Blazers paid him, so they don't owe him" garbage. The rhetoric being spewed against Dame is shameful and disgusting.

 

[Natebishop3]

All you Dame haters, masked by the " I like Dame, BUT !" B.S. , Who are siding with Forked Tongue Joe , need to open up your ears, because it was Joe who said he would push the chips in to build around Dame. And he's doubled down on the committed to build around Dame B.S. as well, yet his actions say otherwise. Jody should fire his ass . Dame EARNED HIS MONEY, and any other team would have paid him for his talents royally as well. So knock off the "Blazers paid him, so they don't owe him" garbage. The rhetoric being spewed against Dame is shameful and disgusting.

This entire thing has smoked out the Dame fans who care more about Dame than they do about the team.

 

[Chris Craig]

All you Dame haters, masked by the " I like Dame, BUT !" B.S. , Who are siding with Forked Tongue Joe , need to open up your ears, because it was Joe who said he would push the chips in to build around Dame. And he's doubled down on the committed to build around Dame B.S. as well, yet his actions say otherwise. Jody should fire his ass . Dame EARNED HIS MONEY, and any other team would have paid him for his talents royally as well. So knock off the "Blazers paid him, so they don't owe him" garbage. The rhetoric being spewed against Dame is shameful and disgusting.

Maybe Cronin did push in all the chips, and it's that teams just don't want to make fair trades with us. Simons just doesn't have the value we hoped and no one wants to touch Nurkic. Or maybe cronin didn't and he lied...after all he was never trading Shaedon or Scoot.

 

[Natebishop3]

Maybe Cronin did push in all the chips, and it's that teams just don't want to make fair trades with us. Simons just doesn't have the value we hoped and no one wants to touch Nurkic. Or maybe cronin didn't and he lied...after all he was never trading Shaedon or Scoot.

There's just too much smoke for it to be true that Cronin didn't offer anything. I think he was unwilling to offer up Shaedon and that's the price that teams were probably pushing for.

 

[andalusian]

There's just too much smoke for it to be true that Cronin didn't offer anything. I think he was unwilling to offer up Shaedon and that's the price that teams were probably pushing for.

If it basically comes to watching a team with Shaedon or watching a team with Dame, I already made my decision last year. I tuned in to watch Shaedon.

 

[Chris Craig]

If it basically comes to watching a team with Shaedon or watching a team with Dame, I already made my decision last year. I tuned in to watch Shaedon.

Well, that's who you'll be tuning in to watch this year.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

All you Dame haters, masked by the " I like Dame, BUT !" B.S. , Who are siding with Forked Tongue Joe , need to open up your ears, because it was Joe who said he would push the chips in to build around Dame. And he's doubled down on the committed to build around Dame B.S. as well, yet his actions say otherwise. Jody should fire his ass . Dame EARNED HIS MONEY, and any other team would have paid him for his talents royally as well. So knock off the "Blazers paid him, so they don't owe him" garbage. The rhetoric being spewed against Dame is shameful and disgusting.

As you said--Dame earned his money. And the Blazers are paying him his money. And everybody is and has been fulfilling their responsibilities and obligations.

The thing is, Cronin has a responsibility to do right by Dame, and the fans, and the team, and the ownership. There are multiple competing and sometimes contradictory interests that Cronin has to serve. What might have been "best" for Dame may not have been best for the franchise, and vice-versa. I don't fault him for not taking a lesser deal in order to placate his star.

If there were a deal available that would have returned a legit star to Portland without hamstringing the organization, then I agree that Cronin should have consummated said trade. But from all reports, it doesn't sound like such a deal existed. Why should we denigrate Cronin for not harming the franchise?

At the same time, I don't really blame Dame for asking out. I wish he wanted to stay, but what's done is done. If Dame('s agent) weren't trying to strongarm the franchise into making a move that seemed detrimental long-term, I'm sure there would be a lot less vitriol being sent his way.

 

[maxiep]

Not at all. Not a fan of Riley but like Spo.
I rooted for Denver over Miami too.
Just a huge Dame fan and dont have a problem with him having a preferred destination.

So, you're okay with us taking back what everyone describes as a ridiculously poor return to get Dame to Miami?

As for me, I like Dame. I would be fine with him getting to a place he wants to be, but I'm a Blazer fan first. I am not willing to move Dame at the expense of such a small return that it would risk our rebuilding with Scoot and Sharpe.

I'm not calling you out, I'm just looking for clarity. Is that a tradeoff you're willing to make, or do you see something like Herro, Robinson, and two firsts in 2028 and 2030 being sufficient?

 

[maxiep]

GMs don't jerk the big agents around. Lots of shit happens behind the scenes between agents and GMs. Grant's new contract for example, the Blazers couldn't go to Grant and promise him a new contract when they first traded for him but they can talk to his agent about one. Grant's deal was negotiated last season.

The majority of Woj bombs come from agents vs GMs.

Agreed. That deal was negotiated before the trade.

 

[maxiep]

And watch Dame rep whoever his new team is in the HoF. People will say it was the organization for Dame but villainize Clyde and say it was his fault.

I think that will be the case. Dame will go in as a member of the team to which he is traded. He seems okay with burning down eleven years of goodwill. I don't get it.

 

[maxiep]

Dame tarnished his reputation not by asking to be traded but by asking to be traded to only one team, knowing that specific team can't afford him.

That's exactly right. It sucks, but I actually completely sympathize with Dame for wanting a change of scenery. What I cannot accept is him acting like a free agent. To me, that is unforgivable.

 

[blazerkor]

This entire thing has smoked out the Dame fans who care more about Dame than they do about the team.

This take lacks nuance, you can still be a fan of Dame and a bigger fan of the team. You can obviously dislike the way that Joe handled things with Dame and still be a huge fan of the team. You can even understand Dame wanting to fuck Joe over and still be a huge fan of the team. This shit isn't binary.

 

[Blazinaway]

That's exactly right. It sucks, but I actually completely sympathize with Dame for wanting a change of scenery. What I cannot accept is him acting like a free agent. To me, that is unforgivable.

Yeah, I totally get Dame wanting a chance to win and have been lobbying for trading Dame and rebuilding for a yr or more, and once again it's the HOW of how he and his team are going about it.

 

[maxiep]

What will happen if Dame hasn't been traded by the start of the season?
It's possible Cronin will wait until either Miami gives him the trade he wants, or Dame adds more teams to his list.

I think it stands a real likelihood of occurring. Cronin, for his own career, cannot accept pennies on the dollar. All of this public posturing from Dame's side paints him into a corner. It doesn't make him more likely to cave, it makes him less. Dame's camp has eliminated the win/win. Now, one side has to lose. And he's the one who signed the contract and is bound for the next 3-4 years.