Joe Six Pack

[julius]

I know people liked it how Bush 'talked to them' and not at them, and he was someone that you could have a beer with (or, more accurately, a near beer)..and how some people like how Palin is a "hawkee mom" and talks to "Joe Six Pack", etc..

It got me thinking. Do we really want to have a "Joe Six Pack" type VP? I want someone who's smarter than me as President and VP. I want someone who doesn't feel the need to flaunt a small town mentality as though it's better. I want someone who comes off a little elitist (for gods sake, they're running for President). I don't want someone I feel I can sit down with and have a beer with...they're the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES for fucks sake.

I don't want someone who sounds like I do when I talk. I want someone who knows what he's talking about, and doesn't feel the need to talk to me like I'm some kind of idiot who doesn't understand big words or is incapable of using a search engine.

Both candidates do this, but one is doing it a lot more and I wish they wouldn't. Joe Six Pack, Hockey mom, dontcha know..

Please, stop. I'm an adult, and I'm educated. I don't need this kind of crap.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I would want someone with leadership experience. Something like a governorship or the CEO of a major company. I mean, which presidents have become presidents with only congressional experience? Its like having a middle level manager at a company run it.

As far as "Joe Six-Pack" is concerned, yeah, I don't want "Joe Six-Pack" to run the country.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I don't enjoy bumbling idiots running the country. HOwever, I think that people can lead effectively while still being in tune with the people. I really liked MIke Huckabee in the republican primaries. He knew the issues, he was very "folksy" and came across really well.

I don't think the issues you mentioned in your diatribe are mutually exclusive.

 

[Dumpy]

I would want someone with leadership experience. Something like a governorship or the CEO of a major company. I mean, which presidents have become presidents with only congressional experience? Its like having a middle level manager at a company run it.

Abraham Lincoln comes to mind. Do you want more?

 

[mook]

Our politics reflects our society. We are now so heavily marketed to that we can't imagine buying anything that doesn't closely resemble our own personal identities. You buy Jordans because there's something about Mike you identify with. You buy Marlboros because there's a little cowboy in you. You don't buy minivans because you aren't a soccer mom (even though it'd be a lot more convenient and cheaper than owning the Rugged Individualist SUV).

It used to be that you chose the most qualified politician, and now you choose the politician who most closely resembles you. Which explains the success of people like Bush and Palin and Hillary, and the failure of people like Kerry and Gore.

Even Obama's success is a result of this projecting--we want to believe we're all so much more level-headed and diverse. Conservatives sneer at the "latte-drinking" elitists, not recognizing there's a Starbucks on every corner and a Prius in a lot of driveways. I remember watching pundits snear at Obama's arugala comment, and I looked down at my craft beer, my $7 cigar, and the takeout Indian food I was eating and thinking, "Huh, I wonder what you cook with arugala? Maybe I ought to look into that." And I live in Idaho, fercrissakes.

At some point, though, somebody is bound to point out that while Bush sounds like any of a hundred cowboy Westerns (cool!), Palin really sounds like the pregnant cop from Fargo. Fargo is a great movie, but does anybody really want to project themselves into that role?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Abraham Lincoln comes to mind. Do you want more?

SUre, this century would be nice. Was the west coast of the US even in existence at that time?

 

[julius]

I don't enjoy bumbling idiots running the country. HOwever, I think that people can lead effectively while still being in tune with the people. I really liked MIke Huckabee in the republican primaries. He knew the issues, he was very "folksy" and came across really well.

I don't think the issues you mentioned in your diatribe are mutually exclusive.

no shit. I liked Huckabee before he became a spinster.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The only thing that scares me in a presidential candidate is ideological extremism (both left and right) and if I get the feeling that I'm probably smarter than them (or at least more informed and/or educated). This is a big, complicated country with big complicated issues pressing down on it, and I for one would rather see us get away from this purile need to "relate" to our candidates -- I don't want to drink beer with them (I drink alone and in the dark).

But then again I'm a slightly, left leaning, elitist bastard and I probably don't reflect or represent the wishes and desires of "Joe Sixpack" all that much.

 

[Denny Crane]

The only thing that scares me in a presidential candidate is ideological extremism (both left and right) and if I get the feeling that I'm probably smarter than them (or at least more informed and/or educated). This is a big, complicated country with big complicated issues pressing down on it, and I for one would rather see us get away from this purile need to "relate" to our candidates -- I don't want to drink beer with them (I drink alone and in the dark).

But then again I'm a slightly, left leaning, elitist bastard and I probably don't reflect or represent the wishes and desires of "Joe Sixpack" all that much.

The government isn't run by the president, it's run by a bunch of career civil service workers managed by a handful of administration appointees. So it really does boil down to who you'd rather watch on TV making speeches.

 

[Dumpy]

The government isn't run by the president, it's run by a bunch of career civil service workers managed by a handful of administration appointees. So it really does boil down to who you'd rather watch on TV making speeches.

the administration appointees have a heck of a lot of clout.

 

[Dumpy]

SUre, this century would be nice. Was the west coast of the US even in existence at that time?

don't like the answer, so you change the question. Whatever. It's unclear to me whether we are talkling about credentials for VP or for president. I'll assume the former (since this was brought up under the Palin umbrella) and go with Harry Truman, Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon. If you are solely interested in credentials for a presidential candidate, I'll probably go with JFK. How about Herbert Hoover? Taft? Warren Harding?

 

[Nikolokolus]

The government isn't run by the president, it's run by a bunch of career civil service workers managed by a handful of administration appointees. So it really does boil down to who you'd rather watch on TV making speeches.

I don't recall saying the government is "run" by the president, but between matters of state, international relations, and supreme court nominees (amongst others) I'd say a candidate's qualities, judgment, "smarts," and temperament can have a huge impact on the direction our country takes -- a president's power isn't absolute, but it is profound.

 

[Denny Crane]

the administration appointees have a heck of a lot of clout.

Way too much clout.

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't recall saying the government is "run" by the president, but between matters of state, international relations, and supreme court nominees (amongst others) I'd say a candidate's qualities, judgment, "smarts," and temperament can have a huge impact on the direction our country takes -- a presiden't power isn't absolute, but it is profound.

You ask why the "like to drink with the person" matters, I answered.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

don't like the answer, so you change the question. Whatever. It's unclear to me whether we are talkling about credentials for VP or for president. I'll assume the former (since this was brought up under the Palin umbrella) and go with Harry Truman, Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon. If you are solely interested in credentials for a presidential candidate, I'll probably go with JFK. How about Herbert Hoover? Taft? Warren Harding?

BTW, Lincoln was not a congressman.

 

[Denny Crane]

JFK and Harding were the last two sitting senators to be elected president.

It's RARE.

 

[Dumpy]

BTW, Lincoln was not a congressman.

I thought the questions was whether he had any executive experience.

 

[Dumpy]

JFK and Harding were the last two sitting senators to be elected president.

It's RARE.

it's not as rare for a VP to be a sitting senator, though. Some of them eventually become president. I'm not sure how that counts in this exercise.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I mean, which presidents have become presidents with only congressional experience?

 

[Dumpy]

Way too much clout.

in this administration, they are heavily controlled by the WH.

 

[Shapecity]

 

[maxiep]

I look at the issue of appeal, and to me it isn't an issue of smarts, it's an issue of common sense vs. intellectualism.

What Sarah Palin represents are those people who live their lives a certain way and sees those in government live in an alternate reality.

Most people pay their mortgages and try to live within their means. Government asks others to do with less while they ask for more. When people try and fail, they have to live with the consequences. When government tries and fails, it was because they weren't given enough resources to accomplish their goals and it's always someone else's fault. Outside of the Beltway a decrease in spending means spending less. Inside of it, it means that the percentage increase declined from the year before. It's Superman's Bizarro World. Outside of the Beltway, every dollar counts. Inside of it, $18B in earmarks is a "small amount".

Is she hokey? Yep. Is she the brightest bulb? Nope. That being said, she appears to have common sense, and that's her appeal to many people. Those people who many in here mock have the same right to vote as do we. To dismiss them is a real mistake.

The best managers aren't Einsteins; the best managers hire Einsteins. I'm not looking for someone who is the smartest guy in the room, because intellectuals tend to live life in the abstract. I'm looking for someone who understands certain principles of what this country stands for and who will govern by them.

 

[Denny Crane]

it's not as rare for a VP to be a sitting senator, though. Some of them eventually become president. I'm not sure how that counts in this exercise.

No. But it's rare for a sitting VP to be elected president. GHW Bush and John Adams are the only two I think did it.

Not the same thing as becoming president when the sitting president dies or resigns, like LBJ or Ford, and not the same thing as a former VP being elected, like Nixon.

 

[maxiep]

No. But it's rare for a sitting VP to be elected president. GHW Bush and John Adams are the only two I think did it.

Not the same thing as becoming president when the sitting president dies or resigns, like LBJ or Ford, and not the same thing as a former VP being elected, like Nixon.

Don't forget Martin Van Buren.

 

[ucatchtrout]

I look at the issue of appeal, and to me it isn't an issue of smarts, it's an issue of common sense vs. intellectualism.

What Sarah Palin represents are those people who live their lives a certain way and sees those in government live in an alternate reality.

Most people pay their mortgages and try to live within their means. Government asks others to do with less while they ask for more. When people try and fail, they have to live with the consequences. When government tries and fails, it was because they weren't given enough resources to accomplish their goals and it's always someone else's fault. Outside of the Beltway a decrease in spending means spending less. Inside of it, it means that the percentage increase declined from the year before. It's Superman's Bizarro World. Outside of the Beltway, every dollar counts. Inside of it, $18B in earmarks is a "small amount".

Is she hokey? Yep. Is she the brightest bulb? Nope. That being said, she appears to have common sense, and that's her appeal to many people. Those people who many in here mock have the same right to vote as do we. To dismiss them is a real mistake.

The best managers aren't Einsteins; the best managers hire Einsteins. I'm not looking for someone who is the smartest guy in the room, because intellectuals tend to live life in the abstract. I'm looking for someone who understands certain principles of what this country stands for and who will govern by them.

She's not all that.

She is an arrogant twit who is full of herself. She claims she wants to expand the power of the VP beyond what Dick Cheney has. She has ignored supoenas in Alaska, as has her husband, and she has asked others in her administration to do the same. She has demonstrated that she sees herself as above scrutiny and criticism, and falsely portrayed herself as a good little hockey mom with the interests of joesixpack at heart. What her record really shows is Sarah Palin cares about Sarah Palin, and she doesn't give a flying fuck about the constitution what the name of the general running the war in Afghanistan is, or anything else.

 

[mook]

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[maxiep]

She's not all that.

She is an arrogant twit who is full of herself. She claims she wants to expand the power of the VP beyond what Dick Cheney has. She has ignored supoenas in Alaska, as has her husband, and she has asked others in her administration to do the same. She has demonstrated that she sees herself as above scrutiny and criticism, and falsely portrayed herself as a good little hockey mom with the interests of joesixpack at heart. What her record really shows is Sarah Palin cares about Sarah Palin, and she doesn't give a flying fuck about the constitution what the name of the general running the war in Afghanistan is, or anything else.

Yep, you don't like Sarah Palin. I get it.

I don't think she's a very good candidate either. I was explaining her appeal. I'm sorry if that bothered you.

 

[julius]

I must say, that video wasn't that funny.

 

[ucatchtrout]

Yep, you don't like Sarah Palin. I get it.

I don't think she's a very good candidate either. I was explaining her appeal. I'm sorry if that bothered you.

lol... no worries. I had a little more to drink tonight than I should have and I got a little carried away. I guess what really bothered me about all the folksy nonsense was that Palin displayed seemed fake to me. When the master communicator himself, Ronald Reagan did stuff like that it worked because he was a genuinely charming human being. I disagreed with his politics, but I do believe he was sincere. If he wasn't....well, he sold me his act and I bought it hook, line and sinker. I'm not buying Palins act. I see no substance there, I see a woman puttin on a show.

 

[PapaG]

lol... no worries. I had a little more to drink tonight than I should have and I got a little carried away. I guess what really bothered me about all the folksy nonsense was that Palin displayed seemed fake to me. When the master communicator himself, Ronald Reagan did stuff like that it worked because he was a genuinely charming human being. I disagreed with his politics, but I do believe he was sincere. If he wasn't....well, he sold me his act and I bought it hook, line and sinker. I'm not buying Palins act. I see no substance there, I see a woman puttin on a show.

She is from a small town in Alaska that I had never heard of prior to her candidacy, and last year she finally cleared $100k with Todd as the governor of Alaska, although he lost $10k racing something called a snow machine.

She IS folksy, by definition. I'm sorry you are jaded about it, but I would imagine your take would be different if Joe Biden wasn't asking people to join him tomorrow at a restaurant that closed in 1990 to prove his "Six Pack" bona fides.