OT Judge: Teen must repay $37M for starting Oregon wildfire

[Cippy91]

Many members of this forum served in the military. I offered it as practical solution to the hole this kid's actions has put him in. He would serve his country, could learn a trade or a profession, and earn money to go to college. That is not wanting the worst for him. You're the one who has shit on that and our military.

If you really believe that it's so hard for you here in this country, that you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, then leave.

What are you even talking about? How did I shit on our military? Such prehistoric backwards ass thinking yet you claim you are a progressive. Kind of hypocritical.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What are you even talking about? How did I shit on our military? Such prehistoric backwards ass thinking yet you claim you are a progressive. Kind of hypocritical.

I have never claimed I am a progressive. That is a label you wrongly insist on giving me.

 

[Cippy91]

But you are defending him and making excuses for him (he's young and stupid - well so is every other 15-year old, but most don't destroy $37 million in property and the lives of hundreds of innocent, hard working people).

I don't know who he is, and I honestly don't care. His name wasn't released to protect him from backlash.

.

You don't know this. His parents are completely off the hook financially for his actions. He can live with them as long as he/they want. Any money they have saved up for his college education cannot be touched. He could end up going to college getting an education and a great paying job. He will keep 75% of his earnings from that great paying job until he turns 25, three years after graduating from college, after he gets to keep 100% of all future earnings.

Fir every doom and gloom sob story you invent I can concoct one where this kid comes out smelling like a rose - with minimal long term impact to his future.

What I can't come up with, for the life of me, is one single scenario where the people he put out of work are fairly compensated for his loss. Ok, well there is one. If he wins $148 million playing Powerball and gives 25% of his winnings to the people he fucked they will get back what he took from them. Other than that unlikely event, they are the real losers here.



I don't see your point here. That $55 (or whatever it ends up being) will be divided among the hundreds of people he fucked over. How much rent, gas, etc. you think their individual share of that $55/week is going to buy each of them?

Yeah, I'm being hard on him, but I don't think you fully comprehend the damage his carelessnesss did to others. Those are the people I feel sorry for, not him. He CHOSE to do this. The people whose property the fire destroyed and those who lost their jobs because of this didn't have any choice in the matter. He made that choice for them.

And, just in case the kid that did this ever stumbles upon this thread...

Hey kid, you fucked up, you already know that. Don't kill yourself, that isn't going to help anyone. Learn from your mistake, be a better person and do your best to pay back as much as you can. We know you can never pay it all back, not even close, and don't expect you to. Not even the judge expects that. That's why he is willing to forgive your debt after 10 years. Don't fret the $37 million amount. Ot's completely unrealistic and we all (well, most of us) realize that. Just do your best to pay back as much as you can, do your community service and help educate others so they may also learn from your mistake. Ok?

The Gorge has always been my favorite place to hike. I've hiked the Eagle Creek trail over 100 times, in all seasons. It was always the first trail I'd take my visiting friends and relatives on to introduce them to the beauty of my adopted home state. That is gone now. You don't need my forgiveness, but do your best and you will receive it. Sorry of I sounded like an asshole. I'm not (well not a TOTAL asshole). I just feel strongly about this, but what is done is done and can't be undone. Just do your best and it will all be ok in the end.

BNM

I get where you’re coming from I just think there is another way to punish him. I think this kid realizes by the time he turns 18 exactly how bad he fucked up, especially when he’s in his early 20’s. If not then yeah, something is up with him. That money is never gonna get close to paid off anyway which is another reason why I think it’s silly. And how do we even know for sure if the money accumulated over 10 years even goes to the forest damages and expenses

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What are you even talking about? How did I shit on our military?

Nobody wants to serve in the military to fight other people’s wars and the people that do are looking for easy money these days to sit on a base and do practically nothing.

 

[Cippy91]

I have never claimed I am a progressive. That is a label you wrongly insist on giving me.

Now I wrongly am giving you labels. Hmmm sounds like something you have clearly allowed in this forum for quite a while when it comes to me and you even join in. Don’t start with me sly. Don’t sit here and tell me I’m disrespecting our military when I’m not. At all. I come from a family with a military background. Get over yourself. All you do is try and piss me off and your starting to succeed. Great job. You’re so bias on this forum against me since I came back it’s ridiculous and quite clear. That’s fine though. Have your little opinion about me.

 

[Cippy91]

Yeah sorry I don’t believe in wars. Doesn’t mean I don’t respect people who serve or have served. Yes, kids that enlist these days look for easy money. Not all. Quite a lot though. You would be surprised.

 

[Cippy91]

No we don't (at least I don't). Stop being such an ageist. No one here suggested jail time for the kid. I just want what's best for the victims of his negligence. That's not the same as wanting what's worst for him.

In fact, if he goes to college and gets a good paying job, both him and his victims will come out ahead. I see that as a win:win for everyone.

In your opinion, does that make me some angry old asshole that hates everyone under the age of 30?

BNM

I guess I find it ironic the ones on the forum that are all for this are over 50. The ones who aren’t for it are under. Surely a sign of the times we have grown up in.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I am 38 and all for what this judge decided.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I get where you’re coming from I just think there is another way to punish him. I think this kid realizes by the time he turns 18 exactly how bad he fucked up, especially when he’s in his early 20’s. If not then yeah, something is up with him. That money is never gonna get close to paid off anyway which is another reason why I think it’s silly. And how do we even know for sure if the money accumulated over 10 years even goes to the forest damages and expenses

Expecting him to pay 25% of his income during the lowest earning years of his life isn't exactly onerous. He will still have the opportunity to go to college and make a good living in the future.

The distribution of the money he pays toward his debt will be determined by the court. Why would you think otherwise? It won't come close to compensating any one agency or any of the impacted individuals/businesses for their loss, but they will each get their meager share.

Hopefully, most property owners had insurance, but that won't do anything for the workers who lost their jobs. Those jobs simply have ceased to exist. Hopefully, they can find employment elsewhere, but that may cause them additional hardship if they have to relocate.

The impact of his actions will be felt by many for many years. Expecting him to feel a similar impact for the next 10 years is not unreasonable. Afterall, he's the one that did this, not them.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I guess I find it ironic the ones on the forum that are all for this are over 50. The ones who aren’t for it are under. Surely a sign of the times we have grown up in.

Why do you find it ironic? You're closer in age to the perpetrator. I'm closer in age to many of the victims, So, you more closely identify with him and I more closely identify with them. That doesn't mean I'm unreasonable. It just means I am more concerned with the victims than the perpetrator. We (well me, anyway) want justice for them, even if it means a temporary hardship for him.

So, if 25% of his income for the next 10 years is too much, what would you propose as a reasonable punishment? How would you compensate those who lost property and jobs due to his actions?

BNM

 

[Cippy91]

Expecting him to pay 25% of his income during the lowest earning years of his life isn't exactly onerous. He will still have the opportunity to go to college and make a good living in the future.

The distribution of the money he pays toward his debt will be determined by the court. Why would you think otherwise? It won't come close to compensating any one agency or any of the impacted individuals/businesses for their loss, but they will each get their meager share.

Hopefully, most property owners had insurance, but that won't do anything for the workers who lost their jobs. Those jobs simply have ceased to exist. Hopefully, they can find employment elsewhere, but that may cause them additional hardship if they have to relocate.

The impact of his actions will be felt by many for many years. Expecting him to feel a similar impact for the next 10 years is not unreasonable. Afterall, he's the one that did this, not them.

BNM

I guess we will see. Either way it’s not gonna get back the damage that was done which is sad. Trust me I love the gorge and trails surrounding as well. When I watched the news I was upset thinking that place would be completely fucked after. As well as feeling sympathy for the people being interviewed scared losing their homes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Now I wrongly am giving you labels.

Yes, you've that done many times. I think it's because I think Trump is an idiot.

Hmmm sounds like something you have clearly allowed in this forum for quite a while when it comes to me and you even join in.

Labeling you? I like The Contrarian.

Don’t start with me sly.

This is the 97th post in this thread. Not really a start. Could be a middle or an end.

Don’t sit here and tell me I’m disrespecting our military when I’m not. At all. I come from a family with a military background.

Your statement about the military and those who choose to serve was wrong and rude.

Get over yourself.

Why? I like myself.

. All you do is try and piss me off and your starting to succeed.

You don't have any guns do you?

Great job.

Thanks

. You’re so bias on this forum against me since I came back it’s ridiculous and quite clear.

I'm bias against all humans.

 

[Cippy91]

Why do you find it ironic? You're closer in age to the perpetrator. I'm closer in age to many of the victims, So, you more closely identify with him and I more closely identify with them. That doesn't mean I'm unreasonable. It just means I am more concerned with the victims than the perpetrator. We (well me, anyway) want justice for them, even if it means a temporary hardship for him.

So, if 25% of his income for the next 10 years is too much, what would you propose as a reasonable punishment? How would you compensate those who lost property and jobs due to his actions?

BNM

I’m not saying you are unreasonable. It just adds up with the time you grew up in I guess if you see what I’m saying. I don’t know how else to explain it. My proposal was for him to get a year in juvenile center, it won’t be fun and he can still be disciplined. I’m just saying whatever he will earn in 10 years won’t make much of a dent in the damage done so I don’t know what fixes that ever.

 

[Cippy91]

Yes, you've that done many times. I think it's because I think Trump is an idiot.



Labeling you? I like The Contrarian.



This is the 97th post in this thread. Not really a start. Could be a middle or an end.



Your statement about the military and those who choose to serve was wrong and rude.



Why? I like myself.



You don't have any guns do you?



Thanks



I'm bias against all humans.

You’re not funny. You don’t know me. You clearly have bias on this forum. You used to be really cool to me until you dropped a ban on me you still think is a legit reason. It never was but keep telling yourself that. You let others get away with personally insulting me yet you beg people to not personally insult on the forum which I find funny because you act like you give a shit but when somebody you don’t like is getting attacked you’re all in and you say “oh well it’s a gray area. They didn’t out right insult you”. Okay yeah but you know what they are doing. I don’t care anymore dude I’m over trying to constantly be cool with you again. It’s obvious you hold grudges for whatever reason. Didn’t even want me here in the first place. I have proved you wrong, I haven’t personally insulted anybody since I have came back months ago. Yet you still wanna act a certain way towards me. You do you.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I’m not saying you are unreasonable. It just adds up with the time you grew up in I guess if you see what I’m saying. I don’t know how else to explain it. My proposal was for him to get a year in juvenile center, it won’t be fun and he can still be disciplined. I’m just saying whatever he will earn in 10 years won’t make much of a dent in the damage done so I don’t know what fixes that ever.

How many kids that do a year in juvenile detention end up graduating from high school? How many go on to graduate from college?

To me, a year in juvenile detention could end up doing more harm than good, both to the kid and to the victims.

I'm just not seeing the benefit. He could come out of juvenile bitter and resentful. How does that help anyone?

Let him do his community service and pay back what he can. Let him see the full impact of his actions and meet the people he harmed. Let them meet him and see that he is doing his best to make up for his poor decision. Locking him away somewhere isn't really helping anyone.

BNM

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You’re not funny. You don’t know me. You clearly have bias on this forum. You used to be really cool to me until you dropped a ban on me you still think is a legit reason. It never was but keep telling yourself that. You let others get away with personally insulting me yet you beg people to not personally insult on the forum which I find funny because you act like you give a shit but when somebody you don’t like is getting attacked you’re all in and you say “oh well it’s a gray area. They didn’t out right insult you”. Okay yeah but you know what they are doing. I don’t care anymore dude I’m over trying to constantly be cool with you again. It’s obvious you hold grudges for whatever reason. Didn’t even want me here in the first place. I have proved you wrong, I haven’t personally insulted anybody since I have came back months ago. Yet you still wanna act a certain way towards me. You do you.

Ok.

 

[Cippy91]

How many kids that do a year in juvenile detention end up graduating from high school? How many go on to graduate from college?

To me, a year in juvenile detention could end up doing more harm than good, both to the kid and to the victims.

I'm just not seeing the benefit. He could come out of juvenile bitter and resentful. How does that help anyone?

BNM

Maybe there are negatives to both situations. I don’t know. He could still do some online classes while there to make up for freshman year credits. He could come out of both scenarios bitter and resentful. I think the 10 year plan will have more of a lasting affect of that though. That’s just me though. I think everybody’s opinions are clear on this. A few of us think it’s too much. A few think it’s just right. Nobody is right. And honestly all of us probably won’t keep up with how this kid is doing within these next 10 years

 

[riverman]

You clearly have bias on this forum.

so what....it's a forum of opinions...you have plenty of those yourself as do we all....and Sly is funny

 

[SlyPokerDog]

.and Sly is funny

looking.

 

[Boob-No-More]

looking.

smelling.

BNM

 

[SlyPokerDog]

smelling.

BNM

:MARIS61:

 

[Hobbesarable]

The judge came down with a pretty fair ruling considering the scope of the damage and this is still a discussion?

Ok then.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The judge came down with a pretty fair ruling considering the scope of the damage and this is still a discussion?

Ok then.

It should be. Do you think female teachers should be imprisoned for having sex with a 15 year old boy?

It so, how do you square your apparent belief that a 15 year old boy is a child with a 37 million dollar fine against an equivalent kid?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

What if he was 12? Or 8?

Or 14?

Where do we draw the line with multi million dollar fines and kids?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It should be. Do you think female teachers should be imprisoned for having sex with a 15 year old boy?

It so, how do you square your apparent belief that a 15 year old boy is a child with a 37 million dollar fine against an equivalent kid?

He was kept in the juvenile system so he will not have a felony conviction as an adult. That is more important than the money.

In cases like this it's important to fine the person the costs incurred rather than what they claim they can afford to pay. Otherwise in future cases you will have individuals and businesses shedding and hiding assets to limit the judgement against them.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

He was kept in the juvenile system so he will not have a felony conviction as an adult. That is more important than the money.

In cases like this it's important to fine the person the costs incurred rather than what they claim they can afford to pay. Otherwise in future cases you will have individuals and businesses shedding and hiding assets to limit the judgement against them.

Garnish his allowance. He's 15

 

[Boob-No-More]

Garnish his allowance. He's 15

That's basically what they are doing. 25% of his earnings for 10 years. Make your payments, don't get arrested again and all is forgiven. That will come a lot closer to $25 thousand than the $37 million in damages he caused to others.

BNM

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It would be awesome if he paid the $37 mill back by selling fireworks.

 

[Boob-No-More]

What if he was 12? Or 8?

Or 14?

Where do we draw the line with multi million dollar fines and kids?

It's actually not a fine (like a traffic ticket), it's repayment of the damages he caused. And he won't come close to paying back one million, let alone multiple millions.

He's 15. Does he even have a job? If he does, he's likely making minimum wage working 8 - 10 hours a week as a full time high school student. At 25% of his earnings that comes to about $25/week. Hardly an onerous amount, even for a 15-year old.

If I underestimate his current earnings and he actually makes more, he can afford to pay back more.

Everyone gets all hung up on the $37 million amount. That's not the amount he will pay, not even close, that's the amount of the damage he caused. Not the same thing.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It should be. Do you think female teachers should be imprisoned for having sex with a 15 year old boy?

It so, how do you square your apparent belief that a 15 year old boy is a child with a 37 million dollar fine against an equivalent kid?

15-year-olds often make poor decisions. No doubt. Still, they need to be held responsible for the consequences of their actions. But often not to the same degree as adults.

Teachers are adults, so they are held to a higher standard, and teachers to a higher standard still. This is intuitive. A 15-year-old's ability to make decisions for which he should be held accountable doesn't make him any less worthy of protection from predatory behavior from adults, and doesn't make the adult's choice to exploit her position/influence/access any less reprehensible.

I am honestly baffled how anyone can think that holding teenagers accountable for criminal behavior somehow runs counter to criminalizing adults having sex with minors.