Kaman Decision

[BonesJones]

Meyers has made it crystal clear how he feels about Kaman and the progress he has made being attributed to Kaman's mentoring.
If we plan on having Meyers as a solid force for our long term future ( Long term being 5-7 years in today world), then we shouldn't be trading Kaman.
I think we pay him for that mentoring and to ride the end of the bench spot, who can be used if an injury comes about. Because we know how Portland never has injuries issues, especially with big men...
Kaman did everything we asked of him and more. His knowledge, presence and leadership is part of what we need. More experienced toughness. And just because he is injury prone doesn't mean he isn't tough. Tough is drive and dedication and will to push through the pain and persevere. Kaman has as much drive as anyone on the team but Wes in my opinion. Wes is a freak that very few players in the NBA equal when it comes to toughness and the drive and want to win.
If we end up without a roster spot because of good acquisitions, or however it plays out, then we bring him on as a big man coach. We all know Stotts could use some help on the defensive end and setting screens, both of which I think Kaman could help with for the bigs.
Kaman needs to stay on the payroll and on the practice court if at all possible in my opinion.

The fact that this got 5 likes bugs me.
if Leonard can't fulfill his potential because he doesn't have a certain player coaching him then he doesn't have what it takes
Kaman is not who matters for Meyers. Meyers is who matters for Meyers, and his work ethic and skill is what will carry him, not Kaman. The coaches will do their job to coach him up, not a player.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Indiana has already said they want to play smaller next year. George and batum can easily play the 2 and 3 together.

Hibbert is a bonafide rim protector. Chandler, Jordan and hibbert would all improve this team at the center position.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The fact that this got 5 likes bugs me.
if Leonard can't fulfill his potential because he doesn't have a certain player coaching him then he doesn't have what it takes
Kaman is not who matters for Meyers. Meyers is who matters for Meyers, and his work ethic and skill is what will carry him, not Kaman. The coaches will do their job to coach him up, not a player.

It kinda bugs me that you don't put anything into coaching then. So all players have the skills and knowledge to improve on their own without coaching? Then why do we even need defensive and offensive coordinators? Why aren't there just player/coaches in schools then?
You cant be serious right?
Did you also notice, or ignore that I suggested bringing Kaman back as a coach? or are you just reading tidbits and commenting on them alone? If so, you should just quote that portion.
Do you not know that at one time, most coaches were players? So just because Kaman still has a roster spot, makes his knowledge of coaching irrelevant? puuulease....

 

[BonesJones]

You didnt comprehend anything I said. So let me break it down

So all players have the skills and knowledge to improve on their own without coaching? Then why do we even need defensive and offensive coordinators?

Wrong. Let the coaches coach him, not Chris Kaman!

Did you also notice, or ignore that I suggested bringing Kaman back as a coach?

Hah, do you really think that would happen? Cmon

Do you not know that at one time, most coaches were players? So just because Kaman still has a roster spot, makes his knowledge of coaching irrelevant?

there's a reason players don't coach anymore. It's not that Kaman doesn't have knowledge to give to Meyers, it's that there are coaches that are paid to do as such... just because I have knowledge about something, doesn't mean if you want to learn, that you need me to teach it

puuulease....

*Please

 

[Orion Bailey]

Wow, you like to blow things up without focusing on the point don't you?
The point is we ALL know bigs take time to develop. So no one should go to Alojuwan's camps then huh? He isn't a coach, so who should listen to him?

If you are resigned to just letting big men make it on their own without finding specialized coaches to help your potential stars, then you are simply asking for failure.

The POINT is Kaman has been a HUGE influence on Meyers and it worked. Why break it up if we don't have to? Kaman isn't going to demand much, if anything, and players often transition to coaching while still on a roster. That's how they figure out they might one day actually enjoy/be a good coach. Its obvious Stotts needs help with the big men, so why not have Kaman on the coaching staff to help on this? This is far from laughable, but you can laugh if you like.

and EVEN furthermore, someone else said it too, you can never have enough bigs. What's wrong with him riding the bench in case of injuries? Or did you miss that portion of my original post too?
Ugh....Gotta read the whole thing, not just what you disagree with. It got those likes because it isn't that bad of an idea, but you can dog everyone who liked it to.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

So, would you be opposed to Gary Payton coaching Damian Lillard defensively?

Sometimes the coaching staff doesn't quite cut it - whether that be because the coaching staff is not up to snuff - or maybe a player - player connection just helps him more.

While I don't agree we should keep Kaman solely for Meyers, I can see the logic. Hell, we signed Earl Watson, Mo Williams to mentor Damian Lillard - on court coaching. It is pretty effective.

I also see Bones point where Meyers needs to do it himself. He can't be babied, it's a business, Kaman can only show him so much before it's up to him to pull through for himself.

 

[riverman]

You didnt comprehend anything I said. So let me break it down

Wrong. Let the coaches coach him, not Chris Kaman!

Hah, do you really think that would happen? Cmon
there's a reason players don't coach anymore. It's not that Kaman doesn't have knowledge to give to Meyers, it's that there are coaches that are paid to do as such... just because I have knowledge about something, doesn't mean if you want to learn, that you need me to teach it

*Please

I couldn't disagree more with your take on this BJ...you've obviously never taught or raised a child. There are a ton of players who credit teammates with their development. Afflalo credited Sheed with his growth in Detroit..Wes looked up to Earl Watson as did Dame. Mentors are an important factor in sports, entertainment, business, etc...My own son is older than Meyers by a year and after graduating OSU in sports physical therapy, he learns from coworkers all the time. It's not a question of being entirely self taught. I don't care how old you are, you can always learn from a vet. I learned in Viet Nam to listen to the older guys and I survived. I think you should rethink your outlook on this.

 

[BonesJones]

Wow, you like to blow things up without focusing on the point don't you?
The point is we ALL know bigs take time to develop. So no one should go to Alojuwan's camps then huh? He isn't a coach, so who should listen to him?

If you are resigned to just letting big men make it on their own without finding specialized coaches to help your potential stars, then you are simply asking for failure.

The POINT is Kaman has been a HUGE influence on Meyers and it worked. Why break it up if we don't have to? Kaman isn't going to demand much, if anything, and players often transition to coaching while still on a roster. That's how they figure out they might one day actually enjoy/be a good coach. Its obvious Stotts needs help with the big men, so why not have Kaman on the coaching staff to help on this? This is far from laughable, but you can laugh if you like.

and EVEN furthermore, someone else said it too, you can never have enough bigs. What's wrong with him riding the bench in case of injuries? Or did you miss that portion of my original post too?
Ugh....Gotta read the whole thing, not just what you disagree with. It got those likes because it isn't that bad of an idea, but you can dog everyone who liked it to.

No you miss the point. The point is you don't keep a player because he "mentors" a role player at the expense of adding talent and getting better. Kaman isn't done playing, he's not coaching this year, guaranteed

 

[BonesJones]

So, would you be opposed to Gary Payton coaching Damian Lillard defensively?

Sometimes the coaching staff doesn't quite cut it - whether that be because the coaching staff is not up to snuff - or maybe a player - player connection just helps him more.

That's different. Going to one of the best defenders in NBA history during the offseason to improve your biggest doesn't compare to keep being a player at the expense of getting better because he's mentoring somebody

 

[blue9]

The fact that this got 5 likes bugs me.
if Leonard can't fulfill his potential because he doesn't have a certain player coaching him then he doesn't have what it takes
Kaman is not who matters for Meyers. Meyers is who matters for Meyers, and his work ethic and skill is what will carry him, not Kaman. The coaches will do their job to coach him up, not a player.

Clearly you don't think much of coaching if you don't think Kaman matters to Leonard's development. Regardless of whether Kaman is labeled as a player or a coach, he's coaching Meyers and it matters A LOT. We haven't had anyone to teach our bigs how to play as bigs in a very long time...as evidenced by the fact that our #1 big doesn't play like a big.

 

[BonesJones]

Clearly you don't think much of coaching if you don't think Kaman matters to Leonard's development. Regardless of whether Kaman is labeled as a player or a coach, he's coaching Meyers and it matters A LOT. We haven't had anyone to teach our bigs how to play as bigs in a very long time...as evidenced by the fact that our #1 big doesn't play like a big.

no I just don't think he's essential to his development. You guys seem to think that if we get rid of Kaman that he'll relapse to the player he was before and that he'll never pan out, which is completely wrong

 

[BonesJones]

I couldn't disagree more with your take on this BJ...you've obviously never taught or raised a child. There are a ton of players who credit teammates with their development. Afflalo credited Sheed with his growth in Detroit..Wes looked up to Earl Watson as did Dame. Mentors are an important factor in sports, entertainment, business, etc...My own son is older than Meyers by a year and after graduating OSU in sports physical therapy, he learns from coworkers all the time. It's not a question of being entirely self taught. I don't care how old you are, you can always learn from a vet. I learned in Viet Nam to listen to the older guys and I survived. I think you should rethink your outlook on this.

I'm not saying mentors aren't that important, but if you have the choice of making your team better by adding more talent, or keeping someone so that he can mentor a role player, you pick talent every single team

 

[Orion Bailey]

No you miss the point. The point is you don't keep a player because he "mentors" a role player at the expense of adding talent and getting better. Kaman isn't done playing, he's not coaching this year, guaranteed

Your just wrong. It happens every year. Kamans value isn't enough to bring in good talent without packaging him with Nic or something else. and in my original post.... I said that we should be able to find something else equivalent in order to make such a trade happen. You miss that part too?

And again, You seem to keep missing THIS point. Bigs are always in demand and we are an injury prone team. Why would wouldn't we want him on the end of the bench for insurance? These are the things I made point of that you keep missing, but you have every right to stick to your guns and think i'm absurd and Kaman's value is going to improve this team if we trade him.

 

[BonesJones]

And again, You seem to keep missing THIS point. Bigs are always in demand and we are an injury prone team. Why would wouldn't we want him on the end of the bench for insurance? These are the things I made point of that you keep missing, but you have every right to stick to your guns and think i'm absurd and Kaman's value is going to improve this team if we trade him.

you don't pay a 3rd string center $5M! Go sign Jermaine O'Neal for next year for the minimum. He can be your "mentoring 3rd string center"

 

[Orion Bailey]

no I just don't think he's essential to his development. You guys seem to think that if we get rid of Kaman that he'll relapse to the player he was before and that he'll never pan out, which is completely wrong

Dude, no one said that. What we are saying is Meyers has been growing with Kaman at his side. No one said Meyers would relapse, but he might not continue to improve, or as quickly as he did last year.
Geez, you like to twist things around. I also never said that Meyers shouldn't be able to figure things out, he should and he can, but some people learn differently than others. Some people can watch a vid, read instructions and they've got it. Some people need hands on and they got it. You speak as though coaching is a one way thing and if Meyers cant learn from our coaches then he sucks, which is sooo ignorant is funny.

 

[Orion Bailey]

you don't pay a 3rd string center $5M! Go sign Jermaine O'Neal for next year for the minimum. He can be your "mentoring 3rd string center"

Not if he cant communicate in such a manner that the player doesn't get it. Coaching is a skill too that deserves pay. Your paying him the $5 mil to be insurance AND help the bigs. Yes its a bit much, but he has earned it in my mind, and it would only be for a year, then the cap goes up.

 

[BonesJones]

Kamans value isn't enough to bring in good talent without packaging him with Nic or something else.

And he can be used to match salaries and help a team clear cap space. He can also be used as a mentor, correct? You're talking about how valuable he is while saying he's not valuable enough haha. Sounds like you're the one twisting things.

 

[BonesJones]

No one said Meyers would relapse, but he might not continue to improve, or as quickly as he did last year.

So we don't improve our team because a role player "might" be harmed by losing another player? Right

So toy wouldn't cut Kaman to get Brandon Wright, because Meyers? Or because Brandon Wright dunks to well and shoots too high of a FG%, which is something us Blazer fans seem to hate

 

[blue9]

no I just don't think he's essential to his development. You guys seem to think that if we get rid of Kaman that he'll relapse to the player he was before and that he'll never pan out, which is completely wrong

And you seem to think that Meyers will continue on his recent trajectory without the guidance of Kaman. While he won't lose what he's already learned, he probably won't progress as quickly without Kaman there to show him all the little things that go into playing successfully as a big-man.
Also, we have 15 roster spots - a few of which are going to be taken up by guys with marginal talent/ability. Why not give one of those spots to Kaman?

 

[BlazerWookee]

Oh FFS...

 

[Orion Bailey]

And he can be used to match salaries and help a team clear cap space. He can also be used as a mentor, correct? You're talking about how valuable he is while saying he's not valuable enough haha. Sounds like you're the one twisting things.

This will be my last response to you, because your like banging your head against a wall.
How many teams out there need the cap space AND have a player like Meyers that needs mentoring?

I said in the ORIGINAL post that you obviously didn't read thoroughly, that he is MUCH more valuable to us than any other team out there for the mentoring alone.

Come on man, your trying to argue apples and oranges just to argue.
I didn't twist my own words at all, your twisting them up for me.

 

[blue9]

So we don't improve our team because a role player "might" be harmed by losing another player? Right

So toy wouldn't cut Kaman to get Brandon Wright, because Meyers? Or because Brandon Wright dunks to well and shoots too high of a FG%, which is something us Blazer fans seem to hate

And getting rid of Kaman (either in trade, or letting walk for cap space) is going to bring back the player that launches us from "pretender" to "contender"?
Obviously if a trade makes us better you do it. But to suggest that KAMAN is the trade chip (or cap space) that's going to radically improve the team is just pie-in-the-sky.

 

[BonesJones]

And getting rid of Kaman (either in trade, or letting walk for cap space) is going to bring back the player that launches us from "pretender" to "contender"?
Obviously if a trade makes us better you do it. But to suggest that KAMAN is the trade chip (or cap space) that's going to radically improve the team is just pie-in-the-sky.

no, but if it gets us closer than do it, don't worry about to backup to our best player, worry about moving the needle closer to contending

 

[BonesJones]

This will be my last response to you, because your like banging your head against a wall.
How many teams out there need the cap space AND have a player like Meyers that needs mentoring?

I said in the ORIGINAL post that you obviously didn't read thoroughly, that he is MUCH more valuable to us than any other team out there for the mentoring alone.

Come on man, your trying to argue apples and oranges just to argue.
I didn't twist my own words at all, your twisting them up for me.

tons of teams have young bigs and tons of teams want cap space, and tons of teams would settle for him as a backup center. So yes he has value

 

[BonesJones]

And you seem to think that Meyers will continue on his recent trajectory without the guidance of Kaman. While he won't lose what he's already learned, he probably won't progress as quickly without Kaman there to show him all the little things that go into playing successfully as a big-man.
Also, we have 15 roster spots - a few of which are going to be taken up by guys with marginal talent/ability. Why not give one of those spots to Kaman?

he progressed so much this past year if he "progressed" at the same rate for the next 3 years he'd be an MVP candidate. Do you guys actually think thatll happen? I don't think you guys give Meyers enough credit for his development. He works his ass off

 

[riverman]

no I just don't think he's essential to his development. You guys seem to think that if we get rid of Kaman that he'll relapse to the player he was before and that he'll never pan out, which is completely wrong

I think scientific method counters your argument...look at Meyers before Kaman and after Kaman...nobody thought he'd frustrate Marc Gasol in the playoffs. Most thought he wouldn't ever be an NBA player. It's demonstrable. Kaman is far from dead weight on the roster. He helped our bench big time. Also I'm going to throw in that I'll "like" any post I choose too and just because you don't, doesn't make you more informed than anyone else around here. We very well may let Kaman go but not because he has no value as a Blazer. I hope he retires here.

 

[BonesJones]

I think scientific method counters your argument...look at Meyers before Kaman and after Kaman...nobody thought he'd frustrate Marc Gasol in the playoffs. Most thought he wouldn't ever be an NBA player. It's demonstrable. Kaman is far from dead weight on the roster. He helped our bench big time. Also I'm going to throw in that I'll "like" any post I choose too and just because you don't, doesn't make you more informed than anyone else around here. We very well may let Kaman go but not because he has no value as a Blazer. I hope he retires here.

I actually agree with you on everything, but if you have the chance to improve your team you take it. The likes bugged me because it showed fans were against improving the talent level of this team.

 

[blue9]

he progressed so much this past year if he "progressed" at the same rate for the next 3 years he'd be an MVP candidate. Do you guys actually think thatll happen? I don't think you guys give Meyers enough credit for his development. He works his ass off

Straw man all the way through. Nobody is saying Meyers doesn't work hard, or that he doesn't deserve credit (or that he'll be an MVP candidate). We're just saying that Kaman ALSO deserves credit - if you disagree you're wrong.
You can work your ass off doing all the wrong things and you'll end up with a lot of bad habits. Or you can have someone show you how to apply your hard work appropriately and that'll accelerate your progress.

 

[blue9]

The likes bugged me because it showed fans were against improving the talent level of this team.

Another straw man.

 

[BonesJones]

Straw man all the way through. Nobody is saying Meyers doesn't work hard, or that he doesn't deserve credit (or that he'll be an MVP candidate). We're just saying that Kaman ALSO deserves credit - if you disagree you're wrong.
You can work your ass off doing all the wrong things and you'll end up with a lot of bad habits. Or you can have someone show you how to apply your hard work appropriately and that'll accelerate your progress.

If I disagree with your opinion I'm wrong? Haha.