Kaman Decision

[BonesJones]

This is great because in another thread you didn't like my Meyers trade idea because you said he has double double written all over him..

Pick one...

So, should we focus on developing him so he can reach that potential, and become that player that increases our overall talent level while retaining a pretty good backup in Kaman or should we cast him aside, as well as Kaman, to get that extra talent?

It seems that your confused on what kind of player you think Meyers will be, as it appears you want to let Kaman go for another back up big (brand an wright previous example) but doesn't that further hinder Meyers and his PT, and that potential you were so adamant about? I believe you said 16 and 10.

(REFER TO THE GET RID OF BATUM THREAD FOR YOUR OWN WORDS ON MEYERS)

like I've said in this thread before, I'm talking about improving so we can contend next year. That would mean Meyers would get 15 mpg behind Aldridge. Down the road he definitly has the potential to be a 16 and 10 guy. But not next year

 

[BonesJones]

If we plan on having Meyers as a solid force for our long term future ( Long term being 5-7 years in today world), then we shouldn't be trading Kaman.
I think we pay him for that mentoring and to ride the end of the bench spot

This quote just made it seem like instead of trying to use the $5M spent on Kaman to improve the team and push it to contender status, we should just use it for a guy at the end of the bench to help Meyers 5-7 years down the road

 

[BonesJones]

That's where I got that vibe. I misinterpreted what you were saying

 

[blue9]

this year he did help a lot. Problem is going forward I'm not sure how much more Kaman can help. The jumps Meyers made this year were basic fundamentals and confidence. Two things a vet can teach well.

Kaman still has PLENTY that he can teach Meyers. Kaman's footwork and passing are superb for a big guy. Meyers has shown a little promise in those areas, which begs for more mentoring from Kaman. Kaman hasn't even scratched the surface of the tips and techniques that can help Meyers become that 16/10 guy.

Again, nobody is saying that the only way for Meyers to improve is through Kaman's teachings, or that Meyers will regress or throw a tantrum if Kaman isn't around, or that we shouldn't trade Kaman if a no-brainer offer is made - those are all straw men. What everyone IS saying is that Kaman is plenty useful to us and we shouldn't get rid of him just because, or in a lateral move - it has to be a clear upgrade.

 

[BonesJones]

Kaman still has PLENTY that he can teach Meyers. Kaman's footwork and passing are superb for a big guy. Meyers has shown a little promise in those areas, which begs for more mentoring from Kaman. Kaman hasn't even scratched the surface of the tips and techniques that can help Meyers become that 16/10 guy.

Again, nobody is saying that the only way for Meyers to improve is through Kaman's teachings, or that Meyers will regress or throw a tantrum if Kaman isn't around, or that we shouldn't trade Kaman if a no-brainer offer is made - those are all straw men. What everyone IS saying is that Kaman is plenty useful to us and we shouldn't get rid of him just because, or in a lateral move - it has to be a clear upgrade.

stepping away from the debate about Meyers, I honestly think Kaman is a tad overrated as a player. I don't feel like losing all the reasons why right now, I just don't think it'd be that hard to find an upgrade

 

[oldmangrouch]

stepping away from the debate about Meyers, I honestly think Kaman is a tad overrated as a player. I don't feel like losing all the reasons why right now, I just don't think it'd be that hard to find an upgrade

Scrub love. Kaman showed enough on offense early in the season that people began to over-look just how bad he was on defense. Then his offense went south and he had no value at all.

To top it off, people argue that "he was hurt" as if that was an excuse - when his history of injuries is part of the problem!

 

[BonesJones]

Scrub love. Kaman showed enough on offense early in the season that people began to over-look just how bad he was on defense. Then his offense went south and he had no value at all.

To top it off, people argue that "he was hurt" as if that was an excuse - when his history of injuries is part of the problem!

to be honest I don't think it's his defense that's overrated. Its his offense

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Kaman still has PLENTY that he can teach Meyers. Kaman's footwork and passing are superb for a big guy. Meyers has shown a little promise in those areas, which begs for more mentoring from Kaman. Kaman hasn't even scratched the surface of the tips and techniques that can help Meyers become that 16/10 guy.

Again, nobody is saying that the only way for Meyers to improve is through Kaman's teachings, or that Meyers will regress or throw a tantrum if Kaman isn't around, or that we shouldn't trade Kaman if a no-brainer offer is made - those are all straw men. What everyone IS saying is that Kaman is plenty useful to us and we shouldn't get rid of him just because, or in a lateral move - it has to be a clear upgrade.

We won't know with 100% certainty if it's a clear upgrade before free agency. And the decision has to be made before then. But keeping the team as is and Olshey not being creative could lead to Aldridge leaving. Ironically, I don't think that would cause you as much heartache as kaman would though

 

[magnifier661]

to be honest I don't think it's his defense that's overrated. Its his offense

I will admit that I absolutely hated his offense, especially when he would force things. He does have amazing footwork though. He's just a bull in a china store when he makes up his mind to score.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I hated watching kaman get stripped time after time down low

 

[tester551]

I hated watching kaman get stripped time after time down low

Hold it now... This forum is supposed to be rated PG.

 

[blue9]

I honestly think Kaman is a tad overrated as a player.

Perhaps if he's a regular rotational player. But I don't think he's overrated - at all - for a 3rd string C. In that role he's well above average. And that's exactly what his role would be next season.
Rolo > Meyers > Kaman. And there's still LMA and Freeland that can play the position in a pinch (if they're both back).

 

[B-Roy]

Who pays 5 million a year for a 3rd string center?

 

[riverman]

Who pays 5 million a year for a 3rd string center?

We paid Marcus Camby 13.3 million to basically play 7 games and sleepwalk through the rest of the lockout season so there's that

 

[B-Roy]

We paid Marcus Camby 13.3 million to basically play 7 games and sleepwalk through the rest of the lockout season so there's that

Yeah but we intended for him to actually start.

 

[riverman]

Yeah but we intended for him to actually start.

Yup, we intended Greg Oden to start but he was in a suit eating cap space for even longer.

 

[blue9]

Who pays 5 million a year for a 3rd string center?

He does more for us than just fill the role of 3rd string C. Do we really have to go back to that portion of the conversation?
And, again, it's always good to have mid-level, short-term/expiring contracts to include in trades.
Circles - let's go in a few more.

 

[RR7]

And, again, it's always good to have mid-level, short-term/expiring contracts to include in trades.

but people are suggesting trading him, and then his mentor role is brought up. So there's no point in mentioning this aspect of his contract

 

[dviss1]

but people are suggesting trading him, and then his mentor role is brought up. So there's no point in mentioning this aspect of his contract

But the people suggesting we trade him aren't the same ones saying keep him as a mentor. What Blue9 is saying is that it makes more sense to keep him in his role and that the fact that he has a mid-level, short-term/expiring contract makes him even more attractive to keep for a trade later (possibly near the deadline).

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

But the people suggesting we trade him aren't the same ones saying keep him as a mentor. What Blue9 is saying is that it makes more sense to keep him in his role and that the fact that he has a mid-level, short-term/expiring contract makes him even more attractive to keep for a trade later (possibly near the deadline).

No, no it doesn't. Him being partially guaranteed for immediate cap relief is more valuable than as an expiring deal. It gives teams extra money this offseason, not next offseason.

 

[Sinobas]

I started to get irritated with Kaman as the year progressed. He's numbers per 36 look good though, 12.5 rebounds, 16.5 points on 51% shooting. But he also forced his offense a lot. It wouldn't be bad if he stayed though.

 

[jlprk]

Kaman kept us in the game in a lot of first halves. Then he didn't play much in the second half. Halfway through the season he got injured and fans forgot him. He was better than Leonard, in that Kaman got fouled when he shot, while Leonard shot too far out.

 

[riverman]

To me Kaman is a perfect fit..15-18 minutes a game but the great thing about the guy is how engaged he is when he's on the bench..he stays in the game and coaches..most bench centers just take power naps when they are pulled out or sulk because they're not on the court. Best bench backup big we've had in ages.

 

[ripcityboy]

Decent bench player for what we signed him for. And we signed as a FA, which is amazing. One more year is fine.

 

[0-Our!]

To me Kaman is a perfect fit..15-18 minutes a game but the great thing about the guy is how engaged he is when he's on the bench..he stays in the game and coaches..most bench centers just take power naps when they are pulled out or sulk because they're not on the court. Best bench backup big we've had in ages.

OH... u meant w/ US... Hahaha! Sorry riverman, I couldn't resist I agree w/ everything u said but like others have said, a roster spot is a valuable thing (even the 15th) & I also love Kaman's mentoring of Meyers (a BIG reason behind Meyers' progress).

Here's my plan: open up his roster spot (plus open another by trading Blake. I like Frazier, we should keep him around), make a long-term deal w/ him as Meyers' mentor/big man player(s) assistant development coach & sign/steal away UFA's Alexis Ajinca & Brandan Wright (both r great for ~20+min. a game). So yeah, instead of the mindset of what others r saying/thinking about trying to get the overrated & ultra-expensive centers... let's run w/ the EASILY AFFORDABLE, awesome interior/GREAT rim protecting center-by-committee (we can use up more fouls w/o worrying about drop off in replacing talent/rim protection also); also, doing things this way allows us to bolster some of our other positions (depends of course on what LMA etc. FO/they decide to do) of need.

ps I want LMA back BUT... IF he's gone... I want a S&T w/ ATL for Millsap (IF we could throw in Batum & get Carroll also w/ a S&T... OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH BABY! Dunno if we could make that happen but IF we could...); I know how Paul played in the playoffs (this is enough to make ATL consider trading him & want LMA next to Al)... but I think he'd b great w/ us & we can EASILY do worse for replacing LMA

I know Carroll is an UNRESTRICTED FA (so maybe we have a chance to just sign him but as others have stated... we really don't sign FA's); we'll be fighting (aka driving his price up) ATL & many others to get him, so if we can work out a deal w/ ATL (or whomever), everybody can get what they want w/o too much blood loss (IF we're lucky it'll cost ~$11million/yr.; we'll need to offer him a 5yr. deal).

 

[riverman]

OH... u meant w/ US... Hahaha! Sorry riverman, I couldn't resist I agree w/ everything u said but like others have said, a roster spot is a valuable thing (even the 15th) & I also love Kaman's mentoring of Meyers (a BIG reason behind Meyers' progress).

Here's my plan: open up his roster spot (plus open another by trading Blake. I like Frazier, we should keep him around), make a long-term deal w/ him as Meyers' mentor/big man player(s) assistant development coach & sign/steal away UFA's Alexis Ajinca & Brandan Wright (both r great for ~20+min. a game). So yeah, instead of the mindset of what others r saying/thinking about trying to get the overrated & ultra-expensive centers... let's run w/ the EASILY AFFORDABLE, awesome interior/GREAT rim protecting center-by-committee (we can use up more fouls w/o worrying about drop off in replacing talent/rim protection also); also, doing things this way allows us to bolster some of our other positions (depends of course on what LMA etc. FO/they decide to do) of need.

ps I want LMA back BUT... IF he's gone... I want a S&T w/ ATL for Millsap (IF we could throw in Batum & get Carroll also w/ a S&T... OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH BABY! Dunno if we could make that happen but IF we could...); I know how Paul played in the playoffs (this is enough to make ATL consider trading him & want LMA next to Al)... but I think he'd b great w/ us & we can EASILY do worse for replacing LMA

I know Carroll is an UNRESTRICTED FA (so maybe we have a chance to just sign him but as others have stated... we really don't sign FA's); we'll be fighting (aka driving his price up) ATL & many others to get him, so if we can work out a deal w/ ATL (or whomever), everybody can get what they want w/o too much blood loss (IF we're lucky it'll cost ~$11million/yr.; we'll need to offer him a 5yr. deal).

This was obviously Caveman's ritual for D'antoni's demise and a curse on the future of the Lakers..he picked the right alter to pray at..I like the guy even more and I want this poster framed and autographed!

 

[0-Our!]

Once Caveman's playing days r over... this is how he'll go out!

Valhalla awaits!!!

 

[Eastoff]

Once Caveman's playing days r over... this is how he'll go out!

Valhalla awaits!!!

That's game of thrones. There is no Valhalla

 

[riverman]

Once Caveman's playing days r over... this is how he'll go out!

Valhalla awaits!!!

His boat is a lot bigger than that one

 

[0-Our!]

That's game of thrones. There is no Valhalla

Nooooooo...

THIS IS THE Game of (porcelain) Thrones. Ooooofffffff course there's no Valhalla... for the common man, it only exists for heroes & kings!