Kawhi Leonard?

[blue9]

Worst case scenario: we get one year of Kawhi, he's average, we don't get past the 2nd round, he leaves in FA summer 2019, and we still have Dame, Nurk, Collins, Moe, and a decent bit of cap space/flexibility a year from now. That's probably no worse than where we are right now.

As for if Boston's assets are better: if Ainge had a stroke and offered Tatum and Brown for CJ and Turner, I'd do that in a heartbeat. I'm sure the Spurs would much rather that pair than ours. Salary matching is really the only question, and would be Boston's biggest hindrance in making such a deal.

This team - minus CJ - is no worse than this team WITH CJ? Oooooookay...

 

[Lanny]

This team - minus CJ - is no worse than this team WITH CJ? Oooooookay...

Not okay

 

[Boob-No-More]

This team - minus CJ - is no worse than this team WITH CJ? Oooooookay...

Try telling that to OKC.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

 

[BBert]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

From the beginning of this conversation I've had the persistent thought that CJ may not be the kind of player Pops is looking for.

 

[StumptownHoliday]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

See you after cj drops 45 on the grizzlies

 

[StumptownHoliday]

From the beginning of this conversation I've had the persistent thought that CJ may not be the kind of player Pops is looking for.

Pops would be stoked to have a player of cj's calibre on the spurs. Oladipo is getting a ton of props leading the pacers to the playoffs... You think that if cj was in his place he wouldn't be as good, if not better, than oladipo? I think he would be

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Leonard would be eligible for a supermax contract if he stayed with the Spurs.

Imagine how many 1997 Chevy Tahoes he'll be missing out on!

($70 million / $3500 per 1997 Chevy Tahoe = 20,000 1997 Chevy Tahoes)

 

[BBert]

Pops would be stoked to have a player of cj's calibre on the spurs. Oladipo is getting a ton of props leading the pacers to the playoffs... You think that if cj was in his place he wouldn't be as good, if not better, than oladipo? I think he would be

I don't know, but I question. Does Pops like ball dominant guards who rarely pass and are sub par on defense? That's great when you're fighting the shot clock; but otherwise?

 

[StumptownHoliday]

I don't know, but I question. Does Pops like ball dominant guards who rarely pass and are sub par on defense? That's great when you're fighting the shot clock; but otherwise?

It's all about system and fit. Cj would not likely be the same player here as he would be in San Antonio. And yes, cj might be an iso ball dominant kinda player, but he's a freaking wizard at it. Players that can do the things he can do do not grow on trees.

 

[BBert]

It's all about system and fit. Cj would not likely be the same player here as he would be in San Antonio. And yes, cj might be an iso ball dominant kinda player, but he's a freaking wizard at it. Players that can do the things he can do do not grow on trees.

True. That's the question. IF CJ can integrate into Pop's system, he'd be a valuable asset when he has the opportunity to weave his magic.

 

[StumptownHoliday]

True. That's the question. IF CJ can integrate into Pop's system, he'd be a valuable asset when he has the opportunity to weave his magic.

Whether or not he fully blends into the system would determine if he's a starter or a 6th man in San Antonio. They need scoring BADLY, and he would give it to them in bushels. If he fully buys into the system, he's an easy starter. If he plays pure cj iso ball, he'd be an absurdly good 6th man.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't know, but I question. Does Pops like ball dominant guards who rarely pass and are sub par on defense? That's great when you're fighting the shot clock; but otherwise?

If you add fat and out of shape, that sounds exactly like Patty Mills in Portland. Pops turned him into a solid NBA player.

BNM

 

[blue9]

I don't know, but I question. Does Pops like ball dominant guards who rarely pass and are sub par on defense? That's great when you're fighting the shot clock; but otherwise?

Tony Parker wasn't exactly a defensive wizard. He also controlled the ball a fair bit...and never had the shooting touch CJ has. CJ is such a smart dude he could easily do what Parker did during his prime...he'd be playing at half his ability if he played the way Parker played.

 

[CupWizier]

If you add fat and out of shape, that sounds exactly like Patty Mills in Portland. Pops turned him into a solid NBA player.

BNM

Mills has done well, but at this stage I would take Napier over Mills as Napier is a much better defender.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

See you after cj drops 45 on the grizzlies

Pat could drop 45 on the Grizzlies.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Mills has done well, but at this stage I would take Napier over Mills as Napier is a much better defender.

Yep, just saying Pops was able to completely remake Mills from a towel waver who only played during garbage time into a serviceable 2-way rotation player on a good team.

Imagine what he could do with someone like C.J.

BNM

 

[CupWizier]

Yep, just saying Pops was able to completely remake Mills from a towel waver who only played during garbage time into a serviceable 2-way rotation player on a good team.

Imagine what he could do with someone like C.J.

BNM

Just like in Napiers case it had a lot to do with opportunity as opposed to anything Pops or Stotts did for their respective players. Mills was a prolific scorer and shooter at St. Marys.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Pat could drop 45 on the Grizzlies.

Why not both? We win 90-60, with only two players scoring. That's gotta be some sort of record.

 

[CupWizier]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

That's entirely a persons right for that opinion, but that doesn't make it correct. CJ has been the second most instrumental player on this teams success and deserves kudos for it.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Just like in Napiers case it had a lot to do with opportunity as opposed to anything Pops or Stotts did for their respective players. Mills was a prolific scorer and shooter at St. Marys.

He was a shoot first, shoot second and shoot third volume scorer who didn't play a lick of defense.

His first year in San Antonio, Pops called Mills a "little fat ass" and used to call him "Fatty Patty". His weight slowed Mills down on both ends, but was especially detrimental on defense where he could't keep in from of opposing point guards. His poor defense and lack of conditioning limited his minutes.

Mills spent the off season getting into the best shape of his life (dropping his body fat from 13% to 5.8%) and the following season, he permanently cracked the Spurs rotation and was a big part of them beating MIA in the finals.

Mills gets credit for doing the work, but it came at the prodding from Pops. In Portland, Patty was content to just be the head towel waver on the bench, but in SAS Pops pushed him to become much more.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

CJ has been the second most instrumental player on this teams success

That's entirely a persons right for that opinion, but that doesn't make it correct. And unlike you, I don't state my opinions as fact.

 

[BBert]

Tony Parker wasn't exactly a defensive wizard. He also controlled the ball a fair bit...and never had the shooting touch CJ has. CJ is such a smart dude he could easily do what Parker did during his prime...he'd be playing at half his ability if he played the way Parker played.

Parker was a very willing and able passer though. The fact he could drive and score allowed him to also drive and dish. Didn't Parker actually lead the league in scoring in the paint at some point? I suspect CJ is talented enough that he could pass more. Especially with Pops bitching him out

 

[CupWizier]

That's entirely a persons right for that opinion, but that doesn't make it correct. And unlike you, I don't state my opinions as fact.

And why do you think I stated it as a fact? Do I have to always post that "this post is my opinion " for you? If I state a "fact" I will back it up, with facts. Hopefully that clarifies it for you. There is definitely a lot more supporting evidence that McCollum's contributions have been key for this team than you are giving him credit for.

 

[Lanny]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

41 points against the Grizzlies.

Edit - Make that 42 points.

 

[CupWizier]

Connaughton 3 points. Looks like he fell a little short of that 45 point prediction but CJ sure came pretty close.

 

[hoopsjock]

I've ceased to be a fan of CJ's game or his contributions to the team. Personal preference. @jlprk has convinced me.

C'mon @PtldPlatypus, are you really saying that removing CJ from this roster would make the team better? Even the biggest CJ haters can't possibly agree with that horrible take.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

C'mon @PtldPlatypus, are you really saying that removing CJ from this roster would make the team better? Even the biggest CJ haters can't possibly agree with that horrible take.

I'm saying that CJ's defensive deficiencies--while not as great as his offensive contribution--are significant enough that they greatly reduce his overall benefit to the team.

I'm saying that the team's net rating with both Dame and CJ on the floor is less than the rating with Dame playing and CJ resting (or so I've been told; I haven't looked up the data myself).

I'm saying that when CJ is on, he's an amazing scorer, but I've seen so much over-dribbling and tunnel-vision from him that I find it difficult to trust him to be able to contribute when it matters.

I'm saying that comparing CJ's salary with his impact on the team, that if a hypothetical deal occurred in which CJ and ET were dealt for a player who left that next year, Neil would likely be able to fill his roster spot with a player that could provide comparable two-way impact.

I'm not saying "cut CJ"; but I am saying that trading CJ and Turner for Kawhi would be a no-brainer. That was the point of the post that generated all this response, that even looking at the absolute worst-case result of such a deal, I could make an argument for it.

You and I both know that a CJ+ET for Kawhi deal is never happening, but I don't doubt for a second that Neil would jump all over it if the opportunity for one were to present itself.

 

[blue9]

I suspect CJ is talented enough that he could pass more. Especially with Pops bitching him out

Precisely my point! Coaching matters!

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm saying that CJ's defensive deficiencies--while not as great as his offensive contribution--are significant enough that they greatly reduce his overall benefit to the team.

I'm saying that the team's net rating with both Dame and CJ on the floor is less than the rating with Dame playing and CJ resting (or so I've been told; I haven't looked up the data myself).

I'm saying that when CJ is on, he's an amazing scorer, but I've seen so much over-dribbling and tunnel-vision from him that I find it difficult to trust him to be able to contribute when it matters.

I'm saying that comparing CJ's salary with his impact on the team, that if a hypothetical deal occurred in which CJ and ET were dealt for a player who left that next year, Neil would likely be able to fill his roster spot with a player that could provide comparable two-way impact.

I'm not saying "cut CJ"; but I am saying that trading CJ and Turner for Kawhi would be a no-brainer. That was the point of the post that generated all this response, that even looking at the absolute worst-case result of such a deal, I could make an argument for it.

You and I both know that a CJ+ET for Kawhi deal is never happening, but I don't doubt for a second that Neil would jump all over it if the opportunity for one were to present itself.

A CJ/ET for Kawhi trade would have to include at least two bad contracts coming back to make the money work. So no the Blazers wouldn't have money to replace CJ if Kawhi left. I agree that the Kawhi thing isn't happening but the rest of your post is off in my opinion. I'm pretty sure all of the Blazers best lineups in terms of net rating feature both Dame and CJ. As far as defensive deficiencies go, how can they be that significant if the team is a top-10 defensive team?