Kenny Vance: Devin Harris rumor (deal on the table)???

[MickZagger]

I think Devin Harris thrives as being a second or third option. Not the focal point of the opposing teams defense like he was last year in Jersey.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd do it, only because I think Harris will be much better when he's put into a winning situation and doesn't have to carry the scoring load.

With that said, I wonder if the trade will include Rudy, Bayless, and Joel. I don't see NJ taking on three guards, especially when one of them is as old as Andre. If Joel gets healthy, great, if not they let him walk at the end of the season. Although, I guess it's possible that they would want Andre for the same reason we wanted him; to get the ball into the middle.

Regardless, I think either Andre or Joel, whichever is still around, would be dealt before the end of the summer.

 

[LameR]

I'd do that. Much as I'd like to see Williams play first I think you have to pull the trigger on that one. Rather ship out Bayless then Williams at this point.

This is what I'm confused about. I think a fair amount of people agree with you. My question is why is everyone so down on Bayless and so high on Williams?

 

[RR7]

This is what I'm confused about. I think a fair amount of people agree with you. My question is why is everyone so down on Bayless and so high on Williams?

The excitement of the unknown! Same way Bayless was preferred to Sergio. Sergio to Blake. Blake to jack. Jack to Telfair. Telfair to Damon. Now it's Williams to Bayless. Next year, Koppo to Williams.

 

[B-Roy]

This is what I'm confused about. I think a fair amount of people agree with you. My question is why is everyone so down on Bayless and so high on Williams?

Cause he's a rookie. We always think rookies are going to be better than the status quo.

 

[craigehlo]

This is what I'm confused about. I think a fair amount of people agree with you. My question is why is everyone so down on Bayless and so high on Williams?

Williams is already a better passer and appears to be better on D than Bayless. By all accounts he held his own against John Wall down in the Vegas scrimmage.

Bayless is a mess when it comes to passing and he always seems to rack up two quick fouls whenever he gets in game because he's overplaying his man.

 

[RR7]

Williams is already a better passer and appears to be better on D than Bayless. By all accounts he held his own against John Wall down in the Vegas scrimmage.

Bayless is a mess when it comes to passing and he always seems to rack up two quick fouls whenever he gets in game because he's overplaying his man.

That was Armon Johnson.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is what I'm confused about. I think a fair amount of people agree with you. My question is why is everyone so down on Bayless and so high on Williams?

Here are my reasons:

1. We have seen enough to Jerryd to know that he is not a point guard.

2. If Jerryd is basically an undersized shooting guard, and we just signed a shooting guard to a fairly large contract, Jerryd will lose out on minutes.

3. Bayless will demand minutes, whereas Williams is a rookie and will not.

4. At the very least, Williams will be a Jerryd clone. Fortunately we have four years to figure out whether we like him. Jerryd is entering his third season so there's much less time.

 

[B-Roy]

4. At the very least, Williams will be a Jerryd clone. Fortunately we have four years to figure out whether we like him. Jerryd is entering his third season so there's much less time.

We do not know that for sure. This guy could turn out to be a major bust.

And despite Jerryd entering his 3rd season, Elliot Williams is only half a year younger than Jerryd.

 

[EGame]

Williams is already a better passer and appears to be better on D than Bayless. By all accounts he held his own against John Wall down in the Vegas scrimmage.

Bayless is a mess when it comes to passing and he always seems to rack up two quick fouls whenever he gets in game because he's overplaying his man.

Ermm, Williams did not play in Summer League, bud.

 

[craigehlo]

Ermm, Williams did not play in Summer League, bud.

Opps, was thinking of Armon Johnson for some reason. He's the Bayless replacement IMHO.

Williams will be the bench player that will see garbage time and not complain about unlike Bayless and Rudy.

 

[B-Roy]

Opps, was thinking of Armon Johnson for some reason. He's the Bayless replacement IMHO.

Williams will be the bench player that will see garbage time and not complain about unlike Bayless and Rudy.

Bayless has never complained. At least not publicly, or according to any of the coaches.

 

[EGame]

Yeah, Bayless has not complained publicly. By all accounts he is always a hard worker trying to get better. That is the opposite of Rudy who cries to no end and needs to go back to Europe.

 

[Idog1976]

Fixed it

Um you don't like Harris but you want a more injured, less shooting Tony Parker who's older or at least has more miles on his wheels?!

 

[craigehlo]

Bayless has never complained. At least not publicly, or according to any of the coaches.

Does anyone seriously think he's going to be happy with single digit minutes at this point in his career?

 

[EGame]

Does anyone seriously think he's going to be happy with single digit minutes at this point in his career?

No one knows, I think he is a good enough player that he should get time whether it is here or with another team. However, he has been good about not complaining to this point.

 

[B-Roy]

Does anyone seriously think he's going to be happy with single digit minutes at this point in his career?

And what makes you think he's going to get single digit minutes? The fact that Armon Johnson played well in summer league? At the VERY least, there's double digit minutes at PG behind Miller, and Nate has always been keen on giving the incumbents more minutes, breaks, and chances to prove themselves. This may be a make or break year for Bayless, so if he's on the roster at the beginning of the season, I can see no scenario where he doesn't play some significant minutes.

 

[Natebishop3]

We do not know that for sure. This guy could turn out to be a major bust.

And despite Jerryd entering his 3rd season, Elliot Williams is only half a year younger than Jerryd.

I just meant a guy who is athletic and attacks the hoop, but doesn't consistently put up big numbers, at least not in his first or second year.

The truth is, we really don't know whether Jerryd will ever be a consistent scorer. Is he the guy who gets you 20 ppg a night in a starting role? I'd say at this point that Bayless is a better known product, which makes him the safer bet, but he certainly didn't set the world on fire like many of us thought he would. Until he develops a consistent jump shot, I'm not sure he will ever be the prolific scorer that I thought he would be. Teams know about his strengths now, and they try to take away his ability to drive.

One thing that I love about Bayless is his work ethic. We don't know if Williams is that kind of guy yet.

 

[LameR]

We do not know that for sure. This guy could turn out to be a major bust.

And despite Jerryd entering his 3rd season, Elliot Williams is only half a year younger than Jerryd.

Yeah I agree. Jerryd isn't amazing, but he's a decent spark off of the bench. Williams hasn't done anything outside of college and people are assuming things will translate without trouble for him to the NBA. That's my biggest confusion.

 

[B-Roy]

The truth is, we really don't know whether Jerryd will ever be a consistent scorer. Is he the guy who gets you 20 ppg a night in a starting role? I'd say at this point that Bayless is a better known product, which makes him the safer bet, but he certainly didn't set the world on fire like many of us thought he would. Until he develops a consistent jump shot, I'm not sure he will ever be the prolific scorer that I thought he would be. Teams know about his strengths now, and they try to take away his ability to drive.

I don't know either. But even with teams knowing his strengths, he improved his FT attempts from 5.7P36 in his 1st year to 6.7P36 in his 2nd year.

His vast improvement over two years is why I think this is a make or break year for him, but at least give him that chances before writing him off when the season hasn't even started. I'm not opposed to trading him, but don't just give him away for a modest improvement and hope one of our rookies can replicate his production.

 

[ace]

I think you guys will be disappointed with Devin. Dude didn't try to play a lick of defense the last two years with Jersey and he is always hurt it seems like.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't know either. But even with teams knowing his strengths, he improved his FT attempts from 5.7P36 in his 1st year to 6.7P36 in his 2nd year.

His vast improvement over two years is why I think this is a make or break year for him, but at least give him that chances before writing him off when the season hasn't even started. I'm not opposed to trading him, but don't just give him away for a modest improvement and hope one of our rookies can replicate his production.

Well, his FTA should have gone up anyway with his increase in minutes. He doubled his minutes, from 654 in 08-09 to 1304 in 09-10. The only reason why I bring up the minutes is because I think it equated to experience, which equated to Jerryd playing smarter, better, etc, which meant more trips to the line.

 

[Ed O]

Bayless turns 22 next month. I don't know that a 22 year-old can have a "make or break" season.

This past season he doubled his minutes, nearly doubled his scoring, improved his shooting across the board and generally was just a much better player.

Is he a starting-level player? Not yet.

Is he a conventional PG? Not yet, and maybe never.

But he's only 10 months older than Elliot Williams and I'm willing to wait another couple of years before I give up on him as a prospect.

Ed O.

 

[B-Roy]

Bayless turns 22 next month. I don't know that a 22 year-old can have a "make or break" season.

Hey, I'm arguing for the guy. >_>

And I'm not saying make or break for him as a player, but just for this team as they (hopefully) move into contention. He'll be up for an extension, and the team will seriously question whether or not he's the right fit going forward to contend for a championship.

 

[Ed O]

Hey, I'm arguing for the guy. >_>

And I'm not saying make or break for him as a player, but just for this team as they (hopefully) move into contention. He'll be up for an extension, and the team will seriously question whether or not he's the right fit going forward to contend for a championship.

I didn't quote you because I didn't want to make it seem like I was entirely disagreeing with you (although I did respond to the "make or break" part of your post). As you probably would agree, NBA fans get bored of prospects who don't immediately pan out, and I just wanted to remind us all of Bayless's youth.

Ed O.

 

[Natebishop3]

Bayless turns 22 next month. I don't know that a 22 year-old can have a "make or break" season.

This past season he doubled his minutes, nearly doubled his scoring, improved his shooting across the board and generally was just a much better player.

Is he a starting-level player? Not yet.

Is he a conventional PG? Not yet, and maybe never.

But he's only 10 months older than Elliot Williams and I'm willing to wait another couple of years before I give up on him as a prospect.

Ed O.

I don't know if anyone is giving up on Bayless, Ed. I'm not giving up on him. I just think that Bayless will A) be an easier asset to trade because he has NBA experience, and B) will most likely demand minutes while Williams will be more likely to sit on the bench without complaining.

Bayless is a known commodity. Williams is not. They both have a ton of potential. I am somewhat disappointed in his development though. I thought he would be further along than he is at this point. That's just my opinion though.

 

[hasoos]

I didn't quote you because I didn't want to make it seem like I was entirely disagreeing with you (although I did respond to the "make or break" part of your post). As you probably would agree, NBA fans get bored of prospects who don't immediately pan out, and I just wanted to remind us all of Bayless's youth.

Ed O.

For all the raving about Johnsons performance on this board, his performance wasn't even close to what Bayless did in summer league. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that. I have no qualms in saying I believe Bayless is a better talent than either of the guys that played summer league this year. He may not be a natural PG, but he is a better player. Bayless could run a pick and roll with Pendergraph. I didn't see Armon or Mills run it once during summer league. That is why Pendergraph didn't have as good as year this year. He was stuck in all isolation plays on the post. Give him a pick and roll, and he's your guy.

 

[Minstrel]

Bayless is a known commodity. Williams is not. They both have a ton of potential. I am somewhat disappointed in his development though. I thought he would be further along than he is at this point. That's just my opinion though.

IMO, he developed a ton from year one to year two. He went from an almost not-NBA-caliber player as a rookie to an almost average NBA caliber player in year two. He started at a pretty low level (lower than I expected) but made a massive leap in one year to put himself back on track. A 22 year old who's close to average is pretty impressive. He's still 3-4 years from his expected prime, so presumably has quite a bit of upside left.

If he were 24-25, I'd be a lot less bullish on his future.

 

[Natebishop3]

One thing I will say about Jerryd, he was one of the only guys to elevate his game during the playoffs.

 

[hasoos]

One thing I will say about Jerryd, he was one of the only guys to elevate his game during the playoffs.

Yep and that is one quality I look for in players. The ability to elevate your game to another level when needed. I know a lot of people are down on Jerryd. But I see a lot of a certain player named Billups in Bayless. Billups struggled his first few years, but their games are so similar in style. Billups did not get his 3 pointer rolling until his 5th year in the league. It changed his game.