Keon Johnson

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blazerkor said:
He says the right thing every time. I've never once seen him go rogue. Whenever he criticizes publicly he follows it up with praise. The dude is incredibly media savvy. He would say the right thing because if he said he didn't know about it and hinted that he didn't like it that would hurt our chances of getting good value in the next deal or deals because other GMs would smell blood in the water.
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He says the right thing even if you know he doesn't mean it. His very first interview, he talked about the Blazers having no bad contracts. Then yesterday, talked about how the move gave them more cap flexibility, etc...and we still have CJ.
 
riverman said:
I never thought saying the right thing was a bad thing. If you listen to Joe's first interview as interim he's doing exactly what he said he would.....Chauncey was riding Roco about gambling on defense and ended up benching him for Nance...that was transparent and in full view of the public...I like that about him.
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That was a terrible trade no matter how you cut it. We should have been able to dump those contracts, gotten under the cap and ended up with a couple of first rounders in return. If you really like Johnson then great, I don't but we should have got a first along with that second.

The fact that it was done this soon means we didn't explore all options and pulled the trigger too soon. It's yet to be known if this sets up a good deal or a couple of good deals but no future move will change the fact that we just made a trade that was extremely lopsided in value going the other team's way and you can't spin that.
 
riverman said:
Chauncey has never struck me as a politician nor has Joe....if Neil was still around you'd have a point but judging someone's character or intentions is pure speculation. I love the way these guys present themselves...especially Joe...that guy doesn' t bother to wear a tie or iron a shirt...he's a gym rat...I think we're in very good hands. Nobody is getting fooled by the press...some in the press are trying to fool folks but hey.....that's the way controversy gets off the ground. The old pitchfork and torches crowd gets in a rage but that doesn't take much prodding in sports. Joe Cronin isn't getting fired...that's my speculation.
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Yeah he probably keeps his job because of this crap
 
riverman said:
hey...you're beating a dead horse...it's over....I don't spin it...I just don't think we lost all that value that you seem to think we lost....we opened roster spots for more talented, younger players and saved money.....if you don't get the money part and wanted an impact player instead of tanking now...well that's on you....if we could have gotten a better deal we would have...people can accept it or overreact....we needed a better starting PF and SF for less money ....now we can do that.
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Not only do you have no way of knowing that's the most we could have got for those two but no one including our interim GM can either because it was the first meaningful deal of the trade season and everyone (besides you I guess) knows we traded a lot more value than we got. The idea that the 6M in cap space we opened up somehow ends up with us having two better starters for less money is beyond me and just let's me know how logically you're thinking about this.

Just ask yourself if we got better or worse from that trade, just as a collection of talent. Then ask yourself if the Clippers did. Then when you come to the obvious answer ask yourself if a 2025 second round pick that likely could have been bought during the draft is worth the difference. IT WAS A TERRIBLE TRADE!!!
 
How were more roster spots opened up?
 
Cugel said:
How were more roster spots opened up?
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They were definitely not we have two contracts that are fully guaranteed (unless for some reason Justice opts out) for next season when we only had one guaranteed for next season before the trade. Every time someone tries to spin this trade as being a good one besides the fact that it got us under the tax and cleared 6M more dollars from our books for next season, they're completely full of shit.

I guarantee you a veteran GM would have waited a little longer, called around to other teams seeing if they'd exceed the offer and would most likely have come up with more return for us with just as much savings when the deadline got closer or taken the trade we got later.

I can't know anything for sure but with the idea that NOLA wants CJ being out there... it's hard for me to believe that if CJ wasn't available to them that they wouldn't take Norm for one of their like 20 first round picks they have and no player in return with their TPE. That would have actually freed up a roster spot and saved a ton of cap space going into next season and we would have had a better return in value... and we still could have traded RoCo to one of the seven teams who were rumored to be interested in him.
 
MickZagger said:
I think we didn’t exercise patience. A week to go and you’re pulling the trigger on that deal?

GM’s get a little more desperate when it’s crunch time.
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This is true. It's also possible, we are the desperate ones. The league knew we badly needed to shave salary and if there were no serious bidders, the offers might have somehow got even worse! Hard to imagine though.
 
Keon Johnson was the 21st pick.

So right now he has about what, 20% of the value Thomas Robinson had when the Kings traded him?

Teams don't trade away a first round selection months later if it was a great, good, or average pick.
 
blazerkor said:
Not only do you have no way of knowing that's the most we could have got for those two but no one including our interim GM can either because it was the first meaningful deal of the trade season and everyone (besides you I guess) knows we traded a lot more value than we got. The idea that the 6M in cap space we opened up somehow ends up with us having two better starters for less money is beyond me and just let's me know how logically you're thinking about this.

Just ask yourself if we got better or worse from that trade, just as a collection of talent. Then ask yourself if the Clippers did. Then when you come to the obvious answer ask yourself if a 2025 second round pick that likely could have been bought during the draft is worth the difference. IT WAS A TERRIBLE TRADE!!!
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Dude. RoCo sucks and Powell is overrated. You say riverman has no idea what was available but neither do you. I like the trade. Winslow has more potential than RoCo. Same with Keon over Norm.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Dude. RoCo sucks and Powell is overrated. You say riverman has no idea what was available but neither do you. I like the trade. Winslow has more potential than RoCo. Same with Keon over Norm.
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Of course they have more potential. They're younger and not established.... Ya know, unlike established players like roco and norm....
 
Strenuus said:
Of course they have more potential. They're younger and not established.... Ya know, unlike established players like roco and norm....
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That's not true. They might still have less potential.

As an aside, I have a really hard time believing anyone with below average wingspan on the perimeter will become Ron Artest 2.0(a shorter, weaker version on top of it).
 
riverman said:
They do if they want to win now...that's why vets are coveted come playoff time ...Balmer has Paul George coming back and Kawhi in the wings..Batum...he's thrilled to get Norm and Roco going into the playoffs...for a rookie he made the right call..no matter how much upside the kid has.....I'd have traded Ant two weeks ago myself for a veteran stretch 4 in a heartbeat
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Johnson just isn't that good. Brandon Boston Jr was the Clips 2nd round pick who played in over twice as many games, averaged twice the points, in less than twice the minutes. Boston has been playable for them getting 16 mpg. Johnson has been unplayable and gets mop-up, garbage time for the injury decimated Clippers.

For Gary Trent Jr, Trevor Ariza and 2 1st round Draft picks, we got a guy who may never play (Bledsoe), a guy on his 4th team in 8 years (Winslow) and a rookie who was being outplayed by his 2nd round counterpart.

All the sunshine and silver lining in the world doesn't alter the fact that the Clippers are rejoicing, the rest of the league can't believe how badly the Blazers got fleeced, Blazer fans got screwed, and Jody saved a few bucks and will now get Cap money paid to her instead of having to pay.

Not impressed.
 
TBpup said:
Johnson just isn't that good. Brandon Boston Jr was the Clips 2nd round pick who played in over twice as many games, averaged twice the points, in less than twice the minutes. Boston has been playable for them getting 16 mpg. Johnson has been unplayable and gets mop-up, garbage time for the injury decimated Clippers.
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Sounds similar to the Gary Trent -Anthony Simons comments a couple of years ago.
And to a lesser extent the Watford-Greg Brown situation now. Only time will tell.
 
What cannot be disputed is Brandon Boston Jr. has outperformed KJ by every metric. The Clippers did not trade the guy that has proven to be their top budding prospect. They unloaded a guy that underperformed a second rounder. Can that be disputed?
 
Really rare to even see teams consider trading their rookie players this early unless one of two conditions are met:

1. They're getting a superstar player in return e.g. the Nets trading Derrick Favors for Deron Williams.

2. The team already knows he's not very good e.g. the Kings giving us Thomas Robinson.

I like Norm but he's not exactly a superstar. So I'm inclined to think it's Number 2. Teams usually overvalue their own rookies if anything, after all they're young and cheap so it doesn't really make sense to trade them if you think there's a chance they amount to anything special.

And the Clips have Jerry West who's a pretty damn good judge of young talent. I find it hard to believe they could have thought all that highly of Johnson at this point. Which is pretty concerning.
 
Fez Forthright said:
nbadraftroom:


“Johnson will need some time to refine his ball-handling, shooting and play-making skills but his elite athleticism and rock solid frame give him a nice NBA ceiling. At this point he drives the ball mostly to the right but he does so effectively and with a lot of success. He’s got great burst into the lane and explodes above the rim.

In some ways he plays like a young Ron Artest, being physical in the paint, rebounding the heck out the ball and also initiating the offense as a point forward. Another player Johnson reminds me of is Jaylen Brown, with his physical driving style and high end athleticism. It’s too early to say if he’ll be as good as those two players but the tools are there.”
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How can he be a point forward at his height and short wingspan?
 
riverman said:
We have a two way contract guy who out performed our draft pick on the team now....Watford....that's a good thing...Keon is 19......3 years younger than Ant.....bit different scenario and Chauncey has opened the floodgates for Ant in year 4.....young guys get it at different rates and Keon was buried behind Paul George so sure....he's not getting burn. Gary Trent didn't get burn his first year either or Ant.......false equivalency.
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The Blazers didnt have a first round pick for Watford to outperform.

Or you mean our late second round pick Brown?

Yes I suppose Keon may have value similar to an underperforming late 2nd round pick. That isn't comforting.
 
riverman said:
We have a two way contract guy who out performed our draft pick on the team now....Watford....that's a good thing...Keon is 19......3 years younger than Ant.....bit different scenario and Chauncey has opened the floodgates for Ant in year 4.....young guys get it at different rates and Keon was buried behind Paul George so sure....he's not getting burn. Gary Trent didn't get burn his first year either or Ant.......false equivalency.
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paul george has been injured for the past two months. "buried" is laughable.
 
MickZagger said:
Norman Powell has value around the league. 3 and D guy with a handle. We settled in that trade and also gave up the best player in the deal.

I’m not saying we could’ve got someone special for Norman. But Eric Bledsoe and parts? Yuck
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If you look at Powell stats on defense you probably can forget the D part of a 3 and d. He defense declining before he left Toronto.
 
riverman said:
You mean Gary Trent second round pick or undrafted Wes Mathews and Roco pick? TRob was drafted ahead of Dame....yup....the crap shoot called the draft! Zion isn't dominating the league yet either....Joe and Chauncey like the kid....I think they've scouted him more than anybody on this msg board. Watford is a two way contract....he's a steal right now...takes a good front office to find those gems
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I’m glad Neil found that diamond in the rough, Watford.
 
riverman said:
You mean Gary Trent second round pick or undrafted Wes Mathews and Roco pick? TRob was drafted ahead of Dame....yup....the crap shoot called the draft! Zion isn't dominating the league yet either....Joe and Chauncey like the kid....I think they've scouted him more than anybody on this msg board. Watford is a two way contract....he's a steal right now...takes a good front office to find those gems
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Yes a crapshoot at the draft.

Not a crapshoot many months later when the team that drafts the player dumps them as TRob was.

You proved my point. Keon has value like TRob, not a future first round pick as posters are trying to stretch their hopes at.
 
Who the fuck cares if one 20 year rookie plays better than the other 19-year rookie in their first year? Even if Boston turns out to be good, it still does not matter if Keon turns out to be good as well, and at his age no one expected him to have an impact as a rookie. You guys are nit-picking about something you have no clue how will turn out.
 
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