Kevin Love - Possible?

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LayneStaley said:
Atlanta Hawks Full Rebuild
Boston Celtics Irving/Tatum/Gordon
Brooklyn Nets Full Rebuild
Charlotte Hornets Kemba
Bulls Tempted to say Markkanen
Cleveland Cavaliers LBJ/Love
Dallas Mavericks DSJ
Denver Nuggets Jokic/Murray
Detroit Pistons Drummond/Harris
Golden State Warriors 4/5 of the starter
Houston Rockets CP3/Harden
Indiana Pacers Olidaplo
LA Clippers Griffin
Los Angeles Lakers Kuzma
Memphis Grizzlies Conley
Miami Heat Whiteside
Milwaukee Bucks Middleton/Freak
Timberwolves Butler/KAT/Wiggins
New Orleans Pelicans Boogie/Davis
New York Knicks Porz
Oklahoma City Thunder RW/PG3
Orlando Magic Gordon
Philadelphia 76ers Simmons/Joel
Phoenix Suns Booker
Portland Trail Blazers Dame
Sacramento Kings Full Rebuild
San Antonio Spurs KL
Toronto Raptors Derozen/Lowry
Utah Jazz Mitchel
Washington Wizards Wall/Beal

Congrats there are 3 teams in full rebuild that have ZERO talent, I said 28 and came up with 27(yes pdx counts cause I said 27 teams have someone I’d trade cj for and I would trade him for dame) maybe the fact that 13(roughly half) have 2-4 players ea can count for that missing 28th team. This is my opinion so before any keyboard warriors lose their shit remember it’s a message board and it’s a lot more fun when everyone doesn’t have the EXACT same opinion.
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Again bullshit. You first said all 29 other teams have "at least 1 player better than C.J.". When I mentioned SAC, you backed off to 28 teams. Now, you are moving the target to include players who are not better than C.J., but players you would trade for based on potential. Not the same thing.

ATL - no one
BRK - no one
CHO - Kemba and his .419 FG%, .345 3FG% is not better than C.J. If he was, CHO would not be 8 games under .500 in the East.
CHI - Markannen not better than C.J. yet.
DAL - Dennis Smith Jr. Give me a fucking break. The guys is a rookie on a shit team averaging 14 ppg on shitty percentages.
LAL - Kuzma, not yet. He has potential, but he's not even a starter on one of the worst teams in the league.
MEM - Conley, injury prone, hasn't played since 11/13, possibly out for the season. Worst contract than C.J. I'll stipulate he's better than C.J., when healthy. He's rarely healthy.
ORL - Gordon, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Good one.
SAC - no one

So, that's at least nine OTHER teams that don't have "at least 1 player better than C.J." You stated hyperbole as fact and got called on it.

BNM
 
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LayneStaley said:
I wasn’t going to even post about the players I’d prefer over cj, I was trying to let it go but was repeatedly asked to list them.
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“Prefer” is a lot different than “better than”. There are a lot of reasons you could decide you prefer one player over another than pure talent. I don’t think Dame is more talented than Westbrook, but there are a whole lot of reasons I prefer to have him play for the Blazers than Westbrook. You listed a bunch of guys who are demonstrably not better than CJ. I thought “better” was the point of the debate, but if you’re going to change it to “prefer” you might want to explain some of your reasoning.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Again bullshit. You first said all 29 other teams have "at least 1 player better than C.J.". When I mentioned SAC, you backed off to 28 teams. Now, you are moving the target to include players who are not better than C.J., but players you would trade for based on potential. Not the same thing.

ATL - no one
BRK - no one
CHO - Kemba and his .419 FG%, .345 3FG% is not better than C.J. If he was, CHO would not be 8 games under .500 in the East.
CHI - Markannen not better than C.J. yet.
DAL - Dennis Smith Jr. Give me a fucking break. The guys is a rookie on a shit team averaging 14 ppg on shitty percentages.
LAL - Kuzma, not yet. He has potential, but he's not even a starter on one of the worst teams in the league.
MEM - Conley, injury prone, hasn't played since 11/13, possibly out for the season. Worst contract than C.J. I'll stipulate he's better than C.J., when healthy. He's rarely healthy.
ORL - Gordon, hahahahahahahahahahahahaha Good one.
SAC - no one

So, that's at least nine OTHER teams that don't have "at least 1 player better than C.J." You stated hyperbole as fact and got called on it.

BNM
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Thx for your OPINION, it’s appreciated.
 
e_blazer said:
“Prefer” is a lot different than “better than”. There are a lot of reasons you could decide you prefer one player over another than pure talent. I don’t think Dame is more talented than Westbrook, but there are a whole lot of reasons I prefer to have him play for the Blazers than Westbrook. You listed a bunch of guys who are demonstrably not better than CJ. I thought “better” was the point of the debate, but if you’re going to change it to “prefer” you might want to explain some of your reasoning.
Click to expand...

I prefer most of the 40+ players I mentioned because when factoring in their skill sets, contracts, and potential I see them as better.
 
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CJ is a die hard Browns fan...grew up in Canton Ohio and his girlfriend lives in NYC....I can see him wanting to go there and play with Lebron...become an allstar, etc.....when he has a good game like last night, he's untouchable....the few games before..he looked pretty bad out there...selling high is a smart move..I can totally understand trading him...GS took off when they split up Curry and Monta Ellis..
 
Boob-No-More said:
Better values, perhaps. Better players, no.

BNM
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Is there some rule against differing opinions around here? Or why do some people take such offense to me not believing cj is a top 35 player in this league? Anyone in the top 50 is still pretty damn good. I have been a non-wavering blazer fan my entire life, my first live game was game 4 of the 90-91 playoffs. I was there in person(young but there and aware)when we pushed Seattle back to pdx for a game 5 and eventual series win, and I’ve never rooted for another team or against the Blazers since. However, after 3 decades of few bright spots mixed in with long droughts of mediocrity and roster mismanagement im tired of waiting for “roster development or internal growth”. I don’t hate cj, I just simply don’t think we can balance out this roster with QUALITY players without trading him. Maybe I just don’t get attached to players like I used to but if this franchise can trade Clyde they can trade CJ.
 
riverman said:
CJ is a die hard Browns fan...grew up in Canton Ohio and his girlfriend lives in NYC....I can see him wanting to go there and play with Lebron...become an allstar, etc.....when he has a good game like last night, he's untouchable....the few games before..he looked pretty bad out there...selling high is a smart move..I can totally understand trading him...GS took off when they split up Curry and Monta Ellis..
Click to expand...

Monta Ellis is no CJ. The only analogy here is that they're 2 smallish guards. And sometimes, when you grow up in a place, you want to leave that MF and never come back.

 
LayneStaley said:
Is there some rule against differing opinions around here? Or why do some people take such offense to me not believing cj is a top 35 player in this league?
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. This is the biggest Blazers forum--the larger the fan forum, the more passionate (or tribal, depending on how you want to see it). Post what you think, it doesn't matter whether it conforms with the popular beliefs here.
 
LayneStaley said:
Is there some rule against differing opinions around here? Or why do some people take such offense to me not believing cj is a top 35 player in this league?
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Facts must be used in arguments around here. Your post was wrought with opinions Edit: disguised as facts.
 
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LayneStaley said:
L O L
I totally forgot that message boards were no place for opinions. Thank you
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If you don't want your opinions to be debated, use more facts to describe how you came to your conclusion. :dunno:
 
LayneStaley said:
Is there some rule against differing opinions around here? Or why do some people take such offense to me not believing cj is a top 35 player in this league? Anyone in the top 50 is still pretty damn good. I have been a non-wavering blazer fan my entire life, my first live game was game 4 of the 90-91 playoffs. I was there in person(young but there and aware)when we pushed Seattle back to pdx for a game 5 and eventual series win, and I’ve never rooted for another team or against the Blazers since. However, after 3 decades of few bright spots mixed in with long droughts of mediocrity and roster mismanagement im tired of waiting for “roster development or internal growth”. I don’t hate cj, I just simply don’t think we can balance out this roster with QUALITY players without trading him. Maybe I just don’t get attached to players like I used to but if this franchise can trade Clyde they can trade CJ.
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No, of course there is no rule against it. I personally encourage differing opinions. It's the basis for discussion, and this is a discussion group. Disagreement is the coal that makes this train roll. If we all agreed, this forum would be a ghost town.

My problem, and the reason I called you out, was you stated an opinion as if it were an irrefutable fact. If you go back and re-read your subsequent replies, you'll see than I'm not the only one that disagrees with your original statement (every other team in the league has at least 1 player better than C.J.). You disagree with yourself. You have modified and qualified your original hyperbolic statement multiple times. But no matter how you try to spin it, even you admit that it's simply not true.

So, no problem with differing opinions, but if you state something that isn't true, or is a blatant exaggeration to try to overstate your point, expect to be called to task. In the end, it just weakens your case and undermines the credibility of your position.

BNM
 
dviss1 said:
Facts must be used in arguments around here. Your post was wrought with opinions.
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c'mon bro...everybody's posts are wrought with opinions....if people are in a pub talking hoops, they don't bring internet stats or articles supporting their opinions...nor should they need to prove these opinions.
 
LayneStaley said:
It’s probsbly a wash
Click to expand...

Advanced Stats comparison for the 2017-18 Season

PER - CJ (17.6) & Kemba (20.6) - Advantage to Kemba
TS% - CJ (0.547) & Kemba (0.546) - No Advantage
TRB% - CJ (6.1) & Kemba (5.3) - Advantage to CJ
AST% - CJ (15.4) & Kemba (29.3) - Advantage to Kemba
STL% - CJ (1.4) & Kemba (1.7) - Advantage to Kemba
BLK% - CJ (0.8) & Kemba (0.8) - No Advantage
TOV% - CJ (8.6) & Kemba (9.9) - Advantage to CJ
OWS - CJ (2.7) & Kemba (3.1) - Advantage to Kemba
DWS - CJ (1.6) & Kemba (1.5) - Advantage to CJ
WS - CJ (4.3) & Kemba (4.7) - Advantage to Kemba
WS/48 - CJ (0.120) & Kemba (0.147) - Advantage to Kemba
OBPM - CJ (1.9) & Kemba (4.5) - Advantage to Kemba
DBPM - CJ (-1.1) & Kemba (-1.0) - Advantage to Kemba
BPM - CJ (0.8) & Kemba (3.5) - Advantage to Kemba
VORP - CJ (1.2) & Kemba (2.1) - Advantage to Kemba

MPG - CJ (36.3) & Kemba (34.7)
USG% - CJ (26.1) & Kemba (27.5)

Stats borrowed from:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/
 
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Boob-No-More said:
You keep confusing better player with better value. C.J. is a better player. Kemba is a better value.

BNM
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No there was zero confusion there, he asked me if I thought kemba was better and I answered his post with they are probably a wash. I then asked him if cj offered 12 mil more of value.
 
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