Knicks/Blazers Discussion Thread

[Mr. J]

By now, I'm guessing everyone has heard the Knicks and Blazers are in trade talks and names such as Penny Hardaway, Malik Rose, Maurice Taylor, Ruben Patterson, Darius Miles, and Theo Ratliff have been mentioned. How do you feel aout a possible deal with the Blazers and who would you want from them?

 

[Beat]

I want Miles and Ratliff but do we give up Curry? James? Frye? i cant see all three of the staying. Also i expect either Crawford or Richardson to be leaving.

 

[Ewings2ndcousin]

Both Miles and Ratliff would be nice additions to the NY Blue squad. What would i give up for that? Well most certainly none of my 3 rooks! Dump off some of those mediocre power forwards we got like Taylor, and Rose. Penny would be a bonus to most cause of his expiring contract. I would love to kick JJ to the curb too if at all possible but with that huge contract of his it would be tough. However if anyone can pull it off Zeke can.


BTW Crawford goes nowhere.

 

[JWohl]

Rose and Taylor on the block?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"The Knicks have a surplus of power forwards and are trying to trade Malik Rose, who became expendable the moment Antonio Davis was included in the deal for Eddy Curry. Maurice Taylor is also available but his contract makes him undesirable. Penny Hardaway has value because he's entering the final year of his contract, but matching up his $15.7 million salary is no easy task. Portland would gladly take rookie forward David Lee, but the Knicks want to hold on to their three first-round picks." New York Daily News</div>

source

 

[Mr. J]

I don't know if we can get both Miles and Ratliff from Portland. It doesn't really work contract wise. Either we give up Frye to them, or a third team would have to be involved in the trade. Out of all the names from Portland rumored to come to New York, I would want it to be Theo Ratliff. Ratliff will give us an excellent defender and someone who could control the paint and keep Curry out of foul trouble. It would be like we had Mutombo again.

I like Darius Miles and his potential. He just had a 47 point game last season and had one of his better years averaging 13/5/2. He's also one of the best small forwards in the league on defense. With those long arms and athleticism he blocks/alters many shots. If he could get a jumper, he’d be a match-up nightmare. The only problem is his terrible attitude. Could he and Brown work together? I remember last year when he cursed out Mo’ Cheeks and as suspended a game or two. If he took some of Brown’s criticism the wrong way, he’ll just cause chemistry problems.

Also, the small forward spot already has Ariza, who is looking very good under Brown, Quentin Richardson, the likely opening night starter if healthy, and Matt Barnes. It will be kind of crowded at that position. On the other hand, it might motivate him, Q, and Ariza to play harder for minutes, so, it won’t be too bad.

But, all in all, Miles isn’t really necessary. Theo is. With the Knicks guards stepping it up defensively, Ratliff would just make the team that much better. What I am concerned with is how all of our centers are making tons of money. Ratliff still has something like 34 million left on a 3-year deal, Curry has 60 million, and James has 30 million. That’s a lot of money and they don’t expire anytime soon making our centers virtually untradable for a good two years at least. Patterson was also mentioned. I’m not a big fan of him. He’s aging, has no jumper, and won’t be very useful. If we have to give up Rose, Taylor, and/or Penny for him and no one else, I’d be extremely disappointed.

 

[Bleed Green]

Do we really need Ratliff though? He has a few years left and his contract still has 34 million left and we dont really need another Center. Curry, JJ, and Butler is good enough. Why add to another logjam like the PF one we had a year before? Experience wise so that he can teach the youngn's isnt necessary either. Thats why we have Antonio Davis. Miles is a good player and I would love for him to come. Like I said in other posts I want Ariza starting and Q-rich moved to the 2. Miles would start if the trade happened. A trade involving crawford would be excellent for this to happen. If Ratliff does come, expect Butler to get less minutes and maybe join the d-league.

 

[Buckets]

I think in the end the deal will be:

Malik Rose, Maurice Taylor and a Secound Round Draft Pick

For

Theo Ratliff, Travis Outlaw, and possible Steve Blake.

I know its just a thought but I think its likely because of the needs and recent roster changes by both squads. Or If it works cap wise I think it could be Penny for Theo straight up.

 

[Henacy]

Crawford, Rose & James for Ratliff, Patterson, filler(probably Heung-Su) & a 2nd rounder

This deal couldnt go down until the trade restriction is lifted on James...but I think this deal makes the Knicks a better team. And helps a Isiah remove some questionable moves he has made over the past few seasons. It might look like the Knicks are coming up short in the talent part but I think the mix and chemistry because more to what Larry Brown can work with especially defensively.

You can put Ratliff next to those offensive minded forwards the Knicks have at the 4 whether it be Curry or Mo Taylor. And he can make up for some of their defensive short comings...and his ablity to block shots as a help defender will allow more success in those defensive schemes Brown wants to run. And Patterson has his defensive moments as well out on the perimeter. He would give the Knicks someone to matchup(from a defensive stand point) with the Carter's, PP's and some of those other big 2/3 wing players they will fac in the atlantic division. The Knicks currently dont have a guy they can throw on that level of wing player..and have at least slight success in trying to keep in front of them.

Also I think it gives a little defination to the Knicks perimeter. By getting rid of Crawford, it defines that the ball will be in Steph's hands for much of the decision making. Right now, it seems that there is no real defination, sometimes Crawford dominates the ball and decision making and sometimes Steph does. And that ends up taking away from the other three guys on the court with them. Patterson, knows he isnt really a decsion maker more of a finisher around the basket. So he can live with Marbury creating the plays for himself...and not try to force his own creation as much as a guy like Crawford.

Cap Wise, the Knicks get rid of two contracts they kind of overpayed for and get back deals with shorter life spand. I think Portland would do this deal...they need a perimeter proven go to score, Crawford kind of gives them that...because of the points he can produce given a certain amount of control of the basketball. And I think they can live with his shot selection for now because they arent at a point where they are expecting to win alot of games. So Crawford style would fit with them in the short term cause it can be entertaining at times...But as they take that step toward regaining winning ways, I dont know if Crawford would still be in the picture. But he works for right now. Also Patterson has already spoken out on not feeling the current make up of the team. So they get rid of a potental bad seed for them. They also get a four in Rose, who can fill in for Randolph, who isnt at full strenght

 

[Equint77]

I don't want Miles in NY.. his jumper is suspect.. so is his attitude.

And his contract is out of control... hell it expires in 2010. If NY wants a SF they should steer Lee into that spot.. he's got the build to play the 3. Also getting Miles will stop Ariza's progress.

I'm all for change but at a certain point the team is gonna have to settle or the constant transition will keep this team from ever having any stability.

This is the problem now... everyone knows the Knicks aren't contenders so why make deals instead of growing our young players? That's what I was hoping was gonna happen. All 4 guys.. Lee, Frye, Nate and Ariza should get the chance to get solid minutes... and with all this shuffling all it does is hinder them.

 

[Mr. J]

That’s an interesting idea, Henacy, but I think I would hold onto Jamal Crawford. Crawford does take bad shots here and there, but his shot selection has improved a lot since Brown has taken over. It’s only preseason, but so far he’s shooting 46.2% from the field and 37.5% from downtown due to his improved shot selection. At age 30, Ruben Patterson is declining; at age 25, Crawford is only going to get better. I would rather pay Crawford’s salary and have him learning from Brown then pay Patterson’s salary. He also has a player option so he might not return next year. That’ll be like trading Crawford and Rose for just Ratliff which isn’t a good trade. If we can keep our young core intact, I think the deal will be worth it. If not, I don’t think the deal is worth it.

 

[postpoint]

Weird Trade

This trade seems pretty strange to me. It doesn't make cap sense for New York, nor player wise. You have to play both Ariza and Q, whatever their positions. Miles would want to start, or he'd turn into a giant cancer. While it's true that the Knicks only other three is Matt Barnes, I think Ariza looked great, and he needs more minutes. Thomas would also have to be crazy to pick up Ratliff, it would be like admitting that Jerome James is useless. Ratliff can't shoot anymore, he lets inside players abuse him, and he doesn't rebound well. He was good three years ago and his contract is enormous. And Travis Outlaw isn't going anywhere if Portland is smart, he's going to be very, very good. Patterson's a trouble maker, and his skills are just a lesser, older version of Ariza's. They both lack a jump shot. There's also no way that Nate McMillan is going to be welcoming Jerome James back to his team.
All of these trade are scenarios are a little cockeyed, but that's just me. Maybe some will make more sense later.

 

[Henacy]

Patterson even at his peak wasnt close to being as talented as Crawford....It doesnt really have anything to do with who is the better players. I think it has to do with the fit of the Knicks and the direction they need to go in now...as well as the future. I dont think Crawford can be apart of the winning future of the Knicks. He just has too naby adjustments that need to be made to be the type of the player the Knicks need to win. But right now, his talent is still at a level where he can draw interest from certain teams with certain needs. I think Portland is one of those teams who would be interested because they are in need of a go to perimeter scorer. So the Knicks should get rid of Crawford now....if they are ready to turn that corner and become a winning franchise again. That current backcourt mix is not a successful one.

Also it really wouldnt matter if Patterson left next year...because my trade is more about changing the look and feel of the Knicks perimeter then it is about acquiring Ruben Patterson. Patterson wouldnt to be apart of the Knicks long term plans, anyway. Steph, Richardson, Ariza...and hopefully(for the Knicks) they can put Robinson in the mix somewhere down the line, but those guys will be the ones that are apart of the Knicks perimeter for the next 5+ years, not a guy like Patterson. He would be nothing but a short term solution...but the point of my trade is breaking up the Marbury/Crawford backcourt.