Knicks looking to trade David Lee in a sign and trade...

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LJ Ginger

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Do we still want him? What is everyone's thoughts... Sergio, Travis, 24th pick for Lee...My only concern is he will want his minutes after having a good season this year...Please comment!
 
If it only cost us Sergio, Travis and the 24th, that'd be a steal.
 
LJ Ginger said:
Do we still want him? What is everyone's thoughts... Sergio, Travis, 24th pick for Lee...My only concern is he will want his minutes after having a good season this year...Please comment!
Click to expand...

Absolutely, assuming Lee was satisfied being a back-up. I guess he wouldn't agree to the sign-and-trade if he weren't, though, so yes...definitely do this deal.
 
Didn't Lee already come out saying he wants 10 million minimum and to start?
 
I've wanted Lee on this team for awhile...My only concern is will he get enough minutes to keep him happy. The answer is probably not!
 
David Lee doesn't want to come and play 10-15 mpg. Doesn't make sense.
 
Lee would be a guy I'd really like to add, and using a chunk of the cap flexibility we have would make the team a LOT better...

I'm not at all afraid of paying him like a starter, and if he's being paid like a starter on one of the best teams in basketball, wouldn't that be enough for him? He's still only 26, and I can imagine he wants to make his mark on the NBA, but I'd hope he could be talked into coming to Portland.

Looking at a four man big guy rotation of Aldridge/Lee/Oden/Przybilla makes me think it would be the best in the NBA... and looking at the track record of LaMarcus, Greg and Joel, I think there'd be plenty of times where one of them is hurt and the remaining three get all the minutes they can handle.

Add Lee and Miller and the Blazers are suddenly MUCH deeper and experienced and better.

Ed O.
 
I like the points you make! I would rather have Sessions but Miller would be alright as well...
 
If you get Lee then you are pretty much committed to moving Joel sooner rather than later; there just aren't enough minutes to go around to keep everyone happy otherwise ... having said that I think a forward-center rotation of Lee, LaMarcus, Oden is probably a little more productive (at least on paper) than LaMarcus, Greg and Joel.
 
Getting Sessions and Lee would be an amazing off-season, IMO.

Nikolokolus said:
If you get Lee then you are pretty much committed to moving Joel sooner rather than later; there just aren't enough minutes to go around to keep everyone happy otherwise ... having said that I think a forward-center rotation of Lee, LaMarcus, Oden is probably a little more productive (at least on paper) than LaMarcus, Greg and Joel.
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You give up defense, plus Lee really isn't big enough to backup center, IMO. He's only 6'9''. I'm not sure it makes Przybilla expendable, though I guess it could allow you to get away with a slightly less-talented backup center with the talent upgrade at backup power forward. So I suppose Portland could deal Przybilla and try to plug in a lesser backup center.
 
Nikolokolus said:
If you get Lee then you are pretty much committed to moving Joel sooner rather than later; there just aren't enough minutes to go around to keep everyone happy otherwise ... having said that I think a forward-center rotation of Lee, LaMarcus, Oden is probably a little more productive (at least on paper) than LaMarcus, Greg and Joel.
Click to expand...

There are about 7900 minutes for the 4 and 5 spots over the course of a season. Let's look at the average minutes the last three years for the four guys...

Aldridge: 2348
Lee: 2304
Przybilla: 1491
Oden: 1314 (obviously only one year)

Total: 7457

Actually, that average drops down significantly if we count GO's season-long injury.

Clearly we would hope that Oden gets more minutes moving forward. And we don't want Joel to be hurt like he was three years ago.

If all four are healthy? There aren't enough minutes for them all. But the odds of all four being healthy all year long are very low. Depth of that quality is incredible and, with proper incentives and personalities, could be a HUGE differentiator over the course of a season.

Ed O.
 
You can add up all the minutes however which way and argue that Lee would get his share but I don't think Lee would be too keen on not being a starter from day 1.

Acquiring Sessions and Lee would be an absolutely amazing off-season as someone mentioned earlier.
 
There won't be enough minutes. The reason why we were able to keep Joel happy is because Greg barely played. Eventually Greg will be the starter again, and hopefully playing 30-35 minutes per game. We need a backup four, but I don't see how that backup is going to get more than 15ish minutes per game. LMA and Oden are going to take the lion's share of the minutes, so unless the same guy is playing both backup positions, I don't see him being happy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
There won't be enough minutes. The reason why we were able to keep Joel happy is because Greg barely played. Eventually Greg will be the starter again, and hopefully playing 30-35 minutes per game. We need a backup four, but I don't see how that backup is going to get more than 15ish minutes per game. LMA and Oden are going to take the lion's share of the minutes, so unless the same guy is playing both backup positions, I don't see him being happy.
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Joel played more minutes this year than he did last season... when Oden was out the whole year. Even when players aren't seriously hurt, they can easily miss five or ten games over the course of a season.

Looking at a minutes per game distribution doesn't take that into account. Looking at minutes played over the course of a season is much more informative, in my opinion.

Of course, even if ALL of us agreed on how minutes may or may not work, it doesn't matter unless the Blazers and David Lee thinks it would work.

Ed O.
 
The only move that would make sense would be to move Joel in a trade.
 
Hypothetically, we could get someone like Lee and have him play both backup spots, but that would leave us extremely thin at the four and the five. If Lee were to be injured, or in foul trouble, we would be in the lurch. However, it could be worth the move.

Trade Outlaw, Sergio, and the 24th to New York for Lee.

Trade Joel, Bayless, and Blake to Memphis for Mike Conley, Rudy Gay, and Haddadi.

Sign Andre Miller.

Miller/Conley
Roy/Rudy
Gay/Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Lee
Oden/Haddadi
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hypothetically, we could get someone like Lee and have him play both backup spots, but that would leave us extremely thin at the four and the five. If Lee were to be injured, or in foul trouble, we would be in the lurch. However, it could be worth the move.

Trade Outlaw, Sergio, and the 24th to New York for Lee.

Trade Joel, Bayless, and Blake to Memphis for Mike Conley, Rudy Gay, and Haddadi.

Sign Andre Miller.

Miller/Conley
Roy/Rudy
Gay/Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Lee
Oden/Haddadi
Click to expand...
On paper that is a damn good team (nearly Whittsett-esque). Don't know if there is enough touches and minutes to go around, but that is a scary deep talented team. Still, I would be nervous at pulling the trigger on those moves due to chemistry issues.
 
Zybot said:
On paper that is a damn good team (nearly Whittsett-esque). Don't know if there is enough touches and minutes to go around, but that is a scary deep talented team. Still, I would be nervous at pulling the trigger on those moves due to chemistry issues.
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True, but as long as Lee is getting close to 30 minutes per game, and Batum is at least seeing minutes, we should be good to go on chemistry.

I think that Webster would have to be moved though, and Conley would take over the point after Miller declined in a couple seasons.
 
Denny Crane said:
The only move that would make sense would be to move Joel in a trade.
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I think I'd rather have GregZilla out on the court all 48 minutes. I think next year is the only year Joel might grouse about playing time versus his talent level. As he moves his way down the bell curve in the next 3 years, his role as "Wayne Cooper" backup will be easier and easier to accept.

We can't ever say that about David Lee. He and LaMarcus will not be able to co-exist, because all three of David Lee, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden will deserve to start.

But I am a massive homer, so it's hard for me to be the least bit objective.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hypothetically, we could get someone like Lee and have him play both backup spots, but that would leave us extremely thin at the four and the five. If Lee were to be injured, or in foul trouble, we would be in the lurch. However, it could be worth the move.

Trade Outlaw, Sergio, and the 24th to New York for Lee.

Trade Joel, Bayless, and Blake to Memphis for Mike Conley, Rudy Gay, and Haddadi.

Sign Andre Miller.

Miller/Conley
Roy/Rudy
Gay/Batum/Webster
Aldridge/Lee
Oden/Haddadi
Click to expand...

If I were Memphis, I wouldn't trade Gay for Joel, Bayless, and Blake.
 
Nikolokolus said:
If you get Lee then you are pretty much committed to moving Joel sooner rather than later; there just aren't enough minutes to go around to keep everyone happy otherwise ... having said that I think a forward-center rotation of Lee, LaMarcus, Oden is probably a little more productive (at least on paper) than LaMarcus, Greg and Joel.
Click to expand...

Only on offense. It will be a big downgrade on defense.
 
Lee wouldn't agree to come here unless we moved one of Joel, Greg, or Lamarcus. Even if we pay him $10 million per year, I still don't think he'd be content at playing 10-15 minutes per game.
 
Ed O said:
Joel played more minutes this year than he did last season... when Oden was out the whole year. Even when players aren't seriously hurt, they can easily miss five or ten games over the course of a season.

Looking at a minutes per game distribution doesn't take that into account. Looking at minutes played over the course of a season is much more informative, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

But what if Lee is the one who gets hurt and misses 10 games. If Lee is only averaging 12 - 15 MPG backing up Aldridge and then HE gets hurt and misses 10 games he could end up playing less than 1000 minutes for the season. I don't think that would be very satisfying for a guy who is only 26, coming off his best season, looking for a starting position and a $10 million per year contract.

If a guy is starting and averaging 33 - 35 MPG, and misses 10 games he's still going to get 2400 - 2500 minutes for the season. So, he probably won't complain about his minutes, but to put David Lee in a position where he might only play 1000 - 1200 minutes for the season doesn't seem like a good idea to me - especially when he's just entering his prime and coming off a season where he played over 2800 minutes and started 74 games.

While there is a chance one of the other big men could miss some games, I'd hate to have to "rely" on that happening to keep Lee happy and get him his minutes.

BNM
 
We could certainly get Lee his minutes if we traded Joel. But then we're going back to having the problem of pourous interior defense. And Joel's departure would totally negate the addition of Lee's rebounding.

I think we should give Joel Freeland a chance to fill the David Lee role. He's 6-11, 250, and very athletic for his size. He put up great numbers in Euro-league, and we could get him for a fraction of the cost, without giving up Joel, and he'd not complain about minutes.

We should get rid of Outlaw, and use the cap space to sign Hedo Turkoglu. He can run the offense like a PG, and we'll certainly need that next year. I'd play him with the 2nd unit, to control the game when Blake/Roy are out.

Or perhaps we could trade for Lee, then trade Aldridge for a top PG or SF, like Tony Parker or Danny Granger?

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Granger/Batum
Lee/Freeland
Oden/Pryzbilla
 
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Sinobas said:
We could certainly get Lee his minutes if we traded Joel. But then we're going back to having the problem of pourous interior defense. And Joel's departure would totally negate the addition of Lee's rebounding.

I think we should give Joel Freeland a chance to fill the David Lee role. He's 6-11, 250, and very athletic for his size. He put up great numbers in Euro-league, and we could get him for a fraction of the cost, without giving up Joel, and he'd not complain about minutes.

We should get rid of Outlaw, and use the cap space to sign Hedo Turkoglu. He can run the offense like a PG, and we'll certainly need that next year. I'd play him with the 2nd unit, to control the game when Blake/Roy are out.

Or perhaps we could trade for Lee, then trade Aldridge for a top PG or SF, like Tony Parker or Danny Granger?

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Granger/Batum
Lee/Freeland
Oden/Pryzbilla
Click to expand...

Granted I don't watch much Knicks games, but is David Lee really as good of a compliment to Oden as LMA? LMA has shown he can step out and hit the mid-range jumper, which is huge in the pick and roll game with Roy. Lee might be a better rebounder, but we have Oden and Pryzbilla. IDK, I wouldn't like the look of that lineup as much.
 
Sinobas said:
We could certainly get Lee his minutes if we traded Joel. But then we're going back to having the problem of pourous interior defense. And Joel's departure would totally negate the addition of Lee's rebounding.

I think we should give Joel Freeland a chance to fill the David Lee role. He's 6-11, 250, and very athletic for his size. He put up great numbers in Euro-league, and we could get him for a fraction of the cost, without giving up Joel, and he'd not complain about minutes.

We should get rid of Outlaw, and use the cap space to sign Hedo Turkoglu. He can run the offense like a PG, and we'll certainly need that next year. I'd play him with the 2nd unit, to control the game when Blake/Roy are out.

Or perhaps we could trade for Lee, then trade Aldridge for a top PG or SF, like Tony Parker or Danny Granger?

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Fernandez
Granger/Batum
Lee/Freeland
Oden/Pryzbilla
Click to expand...

I'd take Aldridge over Lee every day, twice a day and all day on sunday -- Lee is a great hustle garbage man, but he's massive defensive liability and aldridge is way more polished of a scorer with a quickly evolving set of defensive skills that place him ahead of Lee by more than just a little.

And frankly, Parker and Granger are probably the last players either of their respective teams would trade.
 
Ed O said:
There are about 7900 minutes for the 4 and 5 spots over the course of a season. Let's look at the average minutes the last three years for the four guys...

Aldridge: 2348
Lee: 2304
Przybilla: 1491
Oden: 1314 (obviously only one year)

Total: 7457

Actually, that average drops down significantly if we count GO's season-long injury.

Clearly we would hope that Oden gets more minutes moving forward. And we don't want Joel to be hurt like he was three years ago.

If all four are healthy? There aren't enough minutes for them all. But the odds of all four being healthy all year long are very low. Depth of that quality is incredible and, with proper incentives and personalities, could be a HUGE differentiator over the course of a season.

Ed O.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have some depth for the sake of injuries, but for the rest of the time you've got some really expensive pieces sitting on the bench. If the concern is getting LMA a high quality backup, I'd be much more inclined to get a guy like McDyess or some other veteran big with not a whole lot of miles left in the tank, but one that could be more than capable of playing 12-15 minutes a night and would be happy to do it; if there was an injury then you'd assume they could fill in the available minutes for 10-15 games in a season (or however many missed games you'd probably see out of LMA, Greg and Joel combined).

Assuming Lee gets around 8-10 million this off-season, I just think it's a lot of money to tie up into the frontcourt with LMA probably getting a near max deal, Oden the same the year after and Joel already making his 7ish million.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be nice to have some depth for the sake of injuries, but for the rest of the time you've got some really expensive pieces sitting on the bench. If the concern is getting LMA a high quality backup, I'd be much more inclined to get a guy like McDyess or some other veteran big with not a whole lot of miles left in the tank, but one that could be more than capable of playing 12-15 minutes a night and would be happy to do it; if there was an injury then you'd assume they could fill in the available minutes for 10-15 games in a season (or however many missed games you'd probably see out of LMA, Greg and Joel combined).

Assuming Lee gets around 8-10 million this off-season, I just think it's a lot of money to tie up into the frontcourt with LMA probably getting a near max deal, Oden the same the year after and Joel already making his 7ish million.
Click to expand...

The real issue is with Joel. If he were a better offensive player, we probably wouldn't be in this situation. Unfortunately, with Joel being the offensive void that he is, we are needing some more depth at the four spot. We can't have two players in the frontcourt who are incapable of being a legit scoring threat.
 
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