Knicks Sign Jerome James

[VinKanaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">If he plays to his full potential like he did in the Sonics/Kings series, I assure you it won't be as funny.</div>

That's a big 'If' right there. Us Raptor fans could say the same thing about Loren Woods. 'If he played to his full potential like he did for a couple of games in the beginning of the season' or to just about every other players that didn't live up to their potential. If Jerome James was about 5 years younger, then there might be a possibility of him putting his act together, but he's 30 now and he ain't going to show much in terms of improvements.

 

[Really Lost One]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">The Samuel Dalembert deal makes the Jerome James deal seem like a kid's first step. $75 million for an average starting centre desrves an "Are you kidding me?" At least SD can play and is still young.. but you will be kicking yourselves when Jerome James is 35 years old and get $6 million not to play.</div>
that's exactly what i was thinking. why pay so much for james, who's 30 and not going to improve any more, when you guys can go after sammy, who is still young and has tons of potential. and IMO a better player than james. you guys couldve gotten sammy with the same amount of money, or maybe just a little bit more.

 

[Bobcats]

Dalembert is reported to have gotten 75 Million from the Sixers. How is that even close to Jerome James' deal?

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">That's a big 'If' right there. Us Raptor fans could say the same thing about Loren Woods. 'If he played to his full potential like he did for a couple of games in the beginning of the season' or to just about every other players that didn't live up to their potential. If Jerome James was about 5 years younger, then there might be a possibility of him putting his act together, but he's 30 now and he ain't going to show much in terms of improvements.</div>
James was holding back and underachieving and admitted it. That?s the first step in turning into a different player. Unlike classic underachievers such as Tim Thomas, James admitted it and tried his best in the playoffs. Unlike in Seattle, I think James will have more opportunities to shine here in New York. I think youth has little to do with it James is completely capable of having a big role on the Knicks especially considering they?re pretty thin upfront. Also in unlike in Seattle, the media will tear him to bits if he doesn?t perform up to par. This is one of those wait and see situations. If James performs well he can averages something like 8-10 points 7-10 rebounds and 2+ blocks which New York will really benefit from; perhaps more than you think ? especially if they get Larry Brown. James did get quite a bit of money, but whether he is overpaid or not will be revealed in a couple of months.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phiLA:</div><div class="quote_post">that's exactly what i was thinking. why pay so much for james, who's 30 and not going to improve any more, when you guys can go after sammy, who is still young and has tons of potential. and IMO a better player than james. you guys couldve gotten sammy with the same amount of money, or maybe just a little bit more.</div>
The Knicks could not have gotten Dalembert. It is highly, unlikely he would?ve taken the Knicks MLE when he could?ve gotten the Sixers? 75 million they were offering or any other team. It?s not like the Knicks are championship contenders at this stage, either.

 

[playmaker15]

Hmm...i don't know about this move, but hey it's Isiah Thomas we're talking about here.

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">James was holding back and underachieving and admitted it. </div>

So he purposely got himself into constant foul trouble?

Jerome is talented, but he cannot play D without fouling. The reason he stayed on court against the Kings is because he sacrificed a lot of his play on the defensive end, and that changed in the second round against the Spurs.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">So he purposely got himself into constant foul trouble?</div>
I think his foul trouble was due to him playing more aggressive because he knew he would get 16 or so minutes a game; or it could be the opposite. I do know he won't have as much trouble against Eastern Conference fronts as he did in Seattle.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">Jerome is talented, but he cannot play D without fouling. The reason he stayed on court against the Kings is because he sacrificed a lot of his play on the defensive end, and that changed in the second round against the Spurs.</div>
Well Duncan alone makes the Spurs frontcourt elite and it's understandable why he struggled.

 

[Sir Desmond]

The point is, why would a talented seven footer only get 16 minutes a game? It was a direct result of his foul trouble, not him being aggressive because that's all he would get on the court.

I could understand paying him 5-6 million a year for a couple of seasons, but for five years just baffles me and Jerome should consider himself amazingly fortunate.

 

[Mr. J]

Well as I said before, we'll have to see. If he does turn out well, especially considering playing Eastern Conference competition and having a better attitude, I think he can be a great signing. But we'll just have to wait.

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well as I said before, we'll have to see. If he does turn out well, especially considering playing Eastern Conference competition and having a better attitude, I think he can be a great signing. But we'll just have to wait.</div>

You're gay.

 

[Bobcats]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">You're gay.</div>

LOL, where the hell did that come from?

 

[Mr. J]

I'm wondering too. Please don't confuse your silly endeavors with mine.

 

[tradebark]

You know, I was reading through this thread from the start and marvelling at the astounding amount of optimism that comes from some of you guys.. I mean I was ready to start addressing statements one by one but man there were so many.. this one put me over the edge though--

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's face reality, we can't dish out big bucks at all unlike thw Hawks. </div>

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

oh. man.

i know it's a fans duty to support the team and look on the brighter side of things, but it's this sort of attitude that keeps Zeke in charge and you guys at the cellar of the Leastern Conference.

Take it from someone who's watched practically every game Jerome James has played in the NBA-- He is a TERRIBLE player. In every possible way.

1. Locker room cancer
2. No motivation
3. Wasted potential (and at this point in his career, it's no longer potential)
4. Poor rebounder for his size
5. Foul prone
6. No real offensive skill
7. Poor passing, low game IQ in general
...and I could go on.

He shows "flashes of brilliance".. by that I mean 5-6 minute spurts where he manages to make his hook shots or get away with a charge for an easy dunk.

In all his years in the league the series in Sacramento was the only time he EVER showed any type of consistency whatsoever.

My hearts out to you guys. I really do hope he has an epiphany and starts playing hard, but just dont count on it. Disappointment and Jerome James go hand in hand, any Sonic fan will tell you that.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

oh. man.</div>
What?s so funny? The Knicks can?t give out big bucks. Are you aware that they are way over the cap?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">i know it's a fans duty to support the team and look on the brighter side of things, but it's this sort of attitude that keeps Zeke in charge and you guys at the cellar of the Leastern Conference.</div>
We?re moving on up. Before you make assumptions about us being in the cellar again, watch what happens in the season and at least. Weren?t your beloved Sonics supposed to be in the cellars of the West this year?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Locker room cancer</div>
Jerome James: "I wasn't mature"

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2. No motivation</div>
Jerome James: Today I play for an entire different motivation. "I play for first of all, my sons [Mason, 2, and Dallas, 4] to secure a life for them. Second of all, I play for my teammates who have come to know me and love me this season."
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3. Wasted potential (and at this point in his career, it's no longer potential)</div>
It didn?t seem too wasted in the Sacramento series.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Poor rebounder for his size</div>
Well playing 15 minutes a game won?t get you a whole bunch of rebounds. Also he plays next to Reggie Evans who happens to be an absolute monster on the boards. That doesn?t help his cause. James is not that bad of a rebounder.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">5. Foul prone</div>
He?s not playing Duncan, KG and Yao on a consistent basis anymore. He?s playing the big men of the ?Leastern Conference? to quote you. He won?t be as foul prone as he is now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6. No real offensive skill</div>
He?s decent offensively and his 7-1, 270 pound screen setting will help offensively. Plus, we don?t really need him for offense, we need him because he?s a big, shot blocking center.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">7. Poor passing, low game IQ in general</div>
We don?t need him to pass the ball too much. We just need him pretty much because he?s a big man.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">...and I could go on.</div>
Please go on; if you?ve pretty much saw all of his games in his entire career, certainly you can tell me more than 7 negatives.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He shows "flashes of brilliance".. by that I mean 5-6 minute spurts where he manages to make his hook shots or get away with a charge for an easy dunk.</div>
What about those flashes of brilliance that make him 5th in the league in blocks per 48 minutes?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In all his years in the league the series in Sacramento was the only time he EVER showed any type of consistency whatsoever.</div>
Exactly, and that?s the time when he matured and tried his best to utilize his potential. Struggling in the Spurs series is understandable. Not many players can say they?ve faired well playing against Tim Duncan ? maybe the best player in the world right now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My hearts out to you guys. I really do hope he has an epiphany and starts playing hard, but just dont count on it. Disappointment and Jerome James go hand in hand, any Sonic fan will tell you that.</div>
Well he did say he was trying to play harder and now that he seems to have matured, I expect much more positive results. In addition, James was our only big man on the roster so he will definitely be able to help us.

 

[tradebark]

See you watch the playoffs last year and think you know the guy.

He played FOUR YEARS as a Sonic, played horrible, and "finished" strong. By finished i mean the last ~8 games if you want to stretch it and throw the SA series in.

When he says he plays for his sons.. well if you haven't noticed, you guys just paid him $28 million. That'll take care of his sons real good. What does he have to play for now?

Reggie Evans only became a rebounding "monster" this last season. Prior to that James was battling Calvin Booth and Vitaly Potepenko for minutes.... and losing......

You (and Isiah) are putting a whole lot of faith into the Sacramento series and words coming out of his mouth. This is the same guy who was quoted as telling the media "Hi, I'm Jerome James the new starting center of the NY Knicks".. That just REEKS of maturity, doesnt it?

I'm a Sonic fan man, I will sing endless praises for our other recently departed free agent Antonio Daniels, and will as well for anyone else on our team who decides to go elsewhere--if they deserve it. But I'm not going to be forgiving of a guy as useless as James.

He has terrible defensive presence for a guy his size. He is a terrible help defender. Look at numbers all you want but WATCH games he's in and tell me otherwise. He doesn't have good hands. He doesn't know how to box out and gets a chunk of his fouls from going over the back of players. He's not consistently active even during his 15 minutes per game--you'll frequently see him lagging in transition.

I would go on but I'm afraid I'm running out of things you CAN be bad at in basketball..

If all you guys needed was size you should've picked one up in the draft. Or hey gotten someone that wouldnt cost you $28M over 5 years.

From the POV of a diehard sonic fan, it's a terrible pickup. I was frustrated that we even offered a 3 yr deal at the MLE.

Just having big bodies on your roster guarantees absolutely nothing. We had the previously mentioned 3-headed-$18M/yr monster known as Potapenko-Booth-James and we got nowhere with that.

 

[Sir Desmond]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well playing 15 minutes a game won?t get you a whole bunch of rebounds. </div>

For the zillionth time, do you understand why he only played 15 minutes a game? It wasn't a predetermined amount, it was purely because he would get into so much foul trouble.

Against the Kings he basically sacrificed his defensive game for his offensive game. He put up nice numbers, and at the same time was almost a non-factor at the defensive end, because he was trying to stay out of foul trouble.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">See you watch the playoffs last year and think you know the guy.</div>
No, after the playoffs, he was a whole new guy.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He played FOUR YEARS as a Sonic, played horrible, and "finished" strong. By finished i mean the last ~8 games if you want to stretch it and throw the SA series in.</div>
No, after the playoffs, he was a whole new guy.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When he says he plays for his sons.. well if you haven't noticed, you guys just paid him $28 million. That'll take care of his sons real good. What does he have to play for now?</div>
Well pretty much any player in the NBA could makes a good amount of money to provide for their family. Seattle gave him a 15 million dollar contract before it expired. Surely, that would be enough to pay for his sons too. He also said he plays for his teammates, too.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Reggie Evans only became a rebounding "monster" this last season. Prior to that James was battling Calvin Booth and Vitaly Potepenko for minutes.... and losing......</div>
Ok, let?s look back at previous years then:

01-02: 11.64 per 48 minutes
02-03: 13.44 per 48 minutes
03-04: 11.05 per 48 minutes

That?s not too bad and considering his rebounding per 48 minutes in some years beat out the likes of Jermaine O?Neal, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Dirk Nowitzki, Zydrunaus and Ilgauskas, I don?t think he?s as terrible a rebounder as you say he is. Additionally, playing in the ?Leastern Conference? should make it easier for him. He also has Mike Sweetney, David Lee, Malik Rose and Jerome Williams in the frontcourt snatching rebounds, too. That should make his job much easier.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You (and Isiah) are putting a whole lot of faith into the Sacramento series and words coming out of his mouth. This is the same guy who was quoted as telling the media "Hi, I'm Jerome James the new starting center of the NY Knicks".. That just REEKS of maturity, doesnt it?</div>
Well we are. Unlike classic underachievers, he admits his faults. That is the first step in a player willing to try harder. Also on the Knicks frontline, any 7-footer would be highly coveted. He did say the ?I?m Jerome James? thing? I never heard anything like that and this summer I?ve been reading the papers a lot and saw nothing like that. Even if he did say that, I like his enthusiasm he?s expressing on his new role.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm a Sonic fan man, I will sing endless praises for our other recently departed free agent Antonio Daniels, and will as well for anyone else on our team who decides to go elsewhere--if they deserve it. But I'm not going to be forgiving of a guy as useless as James.</div>
He wasn?t so useless in the playoffs and it won?t be a stretch to think of the Sonics having a tougher time in the series without the presence of James.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He has terrible defensive presence for a guy his size. He is a terrible help defender. Look at numbers all you want but WATCH games he's in and tell me otherwise. He doesn't have good hands. He doesn't know how to box out and gets a chunk of his fouls from going over the back of players. He's not consistently active even during his 15 minutes per game--you'll frequently see him lagging in transition.</div>
I saw him in the playoffs and that certainly wasn?t the case. Remember, I?m putting a whole lot of faith in what he did in the Sacramento series. Many of the things you are saying won?t happen as much or at all. I think James will turn into a better player and as I said before, he?s not playing the Garnett?s, Duncan?s, Brand?s, and Amare?s anymore so he definitely won?t have as much trouble.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I would go on but I'm afraid I'm running out of things you CAN be bad at in basketball..</div>
I think that?s a cop out. If James is truly ?useless?, you can give me more things he?s bad at.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If all you guys needed was size you should've picked one up in the draft. Or hey gotten someone that wouldnt cost you $28M over 5 years.</div>
We did, but one 6-11 Frye can?t be the difference maker; we need help and Jerome James hopefully will provide us with that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">From the POV of a diehard sonic fan, it's a terrible pickup. I was frustrated that we even offered a 3 yr deal at the MLE. </div>
From the POV of a diehard Knick fan, it?s a great pickup because we have a 7-1, shot blocking center who is realizing his potential and now with the guidance of a Hall of Fame coach (hopefully if we get Larry Brown), can make a very big impact on the Knicks.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Just having big bodies on your roster guarantees absolutely nothing. We had the previously mentioned 3-headed-$18M/yr monster known as Potapenko-Booth-James and we got nowhere with that.</div>
Remember, any size on the frontline can and will help the Knicks. We also have the shot blocker we wanted and now that it seems like he?s realizing his potential, I think this could be a good pickup for us. Only time will tell what goes on in the season, but with the little size the Knicks have, he can make a big difference.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Sir Desmond:</div><div class="quote_post">For the zillionth time, do you understand why he only played 15 minutes a game? It wasn't a predetermined amount, it was purely because he would get into so much foul trouble.</div>
I never mentioned anything about his fouls. He's a decent rebounder regardless of how much of a hack he is. Fouling has nothing to do with how much of a rebounder he is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Against the Kings he basically sacrificed his defensive game for his offensive game. He put up nice numbers, and at the same time was almost a non-factor at the defensive end, because he was trying to stay out of foul trouble.</div>
Well he did give Brad Miller a very tough time and his 2.2 blocks didn't make him almost a non-factor. The fact of the matter is the Knicks can use any defense they can get and playing against the likes of the Eastern Conference frontcourts shouldn't make it too bad. And he will be better defensively if we get Larry Brown.

 

[tradebark]

the foul issue is directly related to his rebounding, actually. Ditto the blocks.

He's not a smart enough player to stay on the court more than those 15 minutes. That's why those per 48 numbers are completely worthless when discussing him. It's like saying Danny Fortson would be our best PF if he got enough playing time.. Which may in fact be true, but reality has to enter the picture at some point.

You guys just paid a perennial failure $28M for peaking at the end of his contract.. I really cant say much more than that.

And "cop out"?? come on, that has to be the most pathetic troll attempt ever. I've nailed practically every facet of the game worth mentioning for him. I can't think of anything at all that he does well. Good FG%? Good FT%? Uh.. Maybe you should fill in the blanks for me?

You're debating 8 of his games vs 300 of his games, and you honestly think it matters more..? Oh well, good luck to you guys next season. I really cant say much more than that.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting tradebark:</div><div class="quote_post">the foul issue is directly related to his rebounding, actually. Ditto the blocks.

He's not a smart enough player to stay on the court more than those 15 minutes. That's why those per 48 numbers are completely worthless when discussing him. It's like saying Danny Fortson would be our best PF if he got enough playing time.. Which may in fact be true, but reality has to enter the picture at some point.</div>
You said he's a bad rebounder and I'm saying considering the time he gets, he's a decent rebounder. In terms of rebounds per game, he isn't a good rebounder because he gets 15 minutes a game. Dan Gadzuric is a good shot blocker despite the fact he only averages 1.3 blocks a game, right?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys just paid a perennial failure $28M for peaking at the end of his contract.. I really cant say much more than that.</div>
The Knicks were so weak upfront that a perennial failure would be very useful.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And "cop out"?? come on, that has to be the most pathetic troll attempt ever. I've nailed practically every facet of the game worth mentioning for him. I can't think of anything at all that he does well. Good FG%? Good FT%? Uh.. Maybe you should fill in the blanks for me?</div>
It wasn?t a troll attempt at all; it was you saying James is bad at everything and I can go on and on but you don?t. I want to know all the bad things about his game and if their so bad that you can go on for so long, I would just like to know a bit more.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're debating 8 of his games vs 300 of his games, and you honestly think it matters more..? Oh well, good luck to you guys next season. I really cant say much more than that.</div>
But in those 300 games, James was underachieving and he knew it, too. He said he didn?t try hard, but in these 8 games, it seems like he turned into a different person and is willing to try hard. Now it is possible James could be pulling off an Erick Dampier, and I do see where you?re coming from, however, I do trust James? final 8 games and while risky, I think it will pay off. The only way we?re going to see what happens is in a few months when the regular season begins. That will tell us whether it was a bad signing or not.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">
Ok, let?s look back at previous years then:

01-02: 11.64 per 48 minutes
02-03: 13.44 per 48 minutes
03-04: 11.05 per 48 minutes

That?s not too bad and considering his rebounding per 48 minutes in some years beat out the likes of Jermaine O?Neal, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Dirk Nowitzki, Zydrunaus and Ilgauskas, I don?t think he?s as terrible a rebounder as you say he is. Additionally, playing in the ?Leastern Conference? should make it easier for him. He also has Mike Sweetney, David Lee, Malik Rose and Jerome Williams in the frontcourt snatching rebounds, too. That should make his job much easier.</div>
If Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, Shawn Marion, Big Z, or Dirk were to play 15 minutes per game, they wouldn't have to reserve their energy for the 40 minutes they usually play and would average 30-60% more boards per 48 minutes than they currently acquire. So rp48min is difficult to use, when it comes to players that only play 15 mpg.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Zydrunaus and Ilgauskas </div>
I think both Zydrunaus and Ilgauskas are better Rebounders than Jerome James.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I never mentioned anything about his blocks. He's a decent rebounder regardless of how much of a hack he is. Fouling has nothing to do with how much of a rebounder he is.</div>
Fouling doesn't relate to rebounding stats too much, but it relates a lot to fouls. In order for Jerome James to have an impact he needs to try to block a lot of shots, but when he does he gets into foul trouble.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well he did give Brad Miller a very tough time and his 2.2 blocks didn't make him almost a non-factor. The fact of the matter is the Knicks can use any defense they can get and playing against the likes of the Eastern Conference frontcourts shouldn't make it too bad. And he will be better defensively if we get Larry Brown.</div>
Brad Miller wasn't himself, he was hampered from a broken leg that was still being rehabbed and he forced himself to play for the sake of playoffs

I agree that signing Jerome James was a good move by Isiah, who had few options, and took the best big man he could. I think if Jerome James puts for a decent effort and plays 20-25 mpg, then it would seriously help NY, where they need help most.