KP friendship with Blake will cost Portland an NBA title

[Da_O]

Yes, but what we traded him for, what we've been hearing about since we did trade him for is front and center, and appears to be essentially useless.

This is more important than "KP's friendship with Blake" in costing us an NBA title. IMO, RLEC and Cap Space should have been played much smarter, what essentially happened was worse case scenario and trumps all of the problems we think we have on our team (other than Oden's development, of course).

We can waste all the time in the world whining about Blake, Outlaw, no backup PF, no passing SF, or whatever, but the real issue is the fumble of the cap situation and RLEC.

It isn't useless, we tried to use it and it blew up in our faces.

We can waste all the time in the world whining about Blake, Outlaw, no backup PF, no passing SF, or whatever, but the real issue is the fumble of the cap situation and RLEC.

So instead of that, we should waste all the time in the world bitching and moaning about not using the cap space?

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

It isn't useless, we tried to use it and it blew up in our faces.

We can waste all the time in the world whining about Blake, Outlaw, no backup PF, no passing SF, or whatever, but the real issue is the fumble of the cap situation and RLEC.

So instead of that, we should waste all the time in the world bitching and moaning about not using the cap space?

no, we need to recognize that "In Pritch We Trust" while its great and all, is a false prophet/mantra.
we absolutely have to question whatever he does and just can't give blind trust just because he was able to trade for Brandon and LaMarcus.

The team is good, don't get me wrong. However, he seems to have wasted assets which is unacceptable and it should be reconized instead of us just drinking Kool Aid thinking everything is just going to work out.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

unless you think every post here should be:

our team is really good.

yay. go team.

 

[barfo]

no, we need to recognize that "In Pritch We Trust" while its great and all, is a false prophet/mantra.
we absolutely have to question whatever he does and just can't give blind trust just because he was able to trade for Brandon and LaMarcus.

The team is good, don't get me wrong. However, he seems to have wasted assets which is unacceptable and it should be reconized instead of us just drinking Kool Aid thinking everything is just going to work out.

If we all stop worshiping KP, how will that make the team better? If we question whatever he does, will that change the outcome? Why do fans need to do anything here? Isn't it completely out of our control? Shouldn't we just sit back, have another beer, and wait to see what happens?

barfo

 

[Da_O]

no, we need to recognize that "In Pritch We Trust" while its great and all, is a false prophet/mantra.
we absolutely have to question whatever he does and just can't give blind trust just because he was able to trade for Brandon and LaMarcus.

The team is good, don't get me wrong. However, he seems to have wasted assets which is unacceptable and it should be reconized instead of us just drinking Kool Aid thinking everything is just going to work out.

What assets has he wasted? What were these better options? Oh tell us E-GM, I'd like to know these other moves that we're missing out on. Besides speculation from the media we really don't know what was out there.

All I know is this team has gotten progressively better since KP took over. With further development from our young core, I think we'll continue to see that trend.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

If we all stop worshiping KP, how will that make the team better? If we question whatever he does, will that change the outcome? Why do fans need to do anything here? Isn't it completely out of our control? Shouldn't we just sit back, have another beer, and wait to see what happens?

barfo

our team is really good.

yay. go team.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

What assets has he wasted? What were these better options? Oh tell us E-GM, I'd like to know these other moves that we're missing out on. Besides speculation from the media we really don't know what was out there.

All I know is this team has gotten progressively better since KP took over. With further development from our young core, I think we'll continue to see that trend.

He wasted RLEC. Options? do ANYTHING with it. One of the best expiring contracts in the history of the NBA and he couldn't turn it even into a backup PF? Oh that's right, he would have killed our cap-space this summer if he traded for a guy with a contract....gotta save that space.

Sure, this team has gotten better...what do you expect we're on the upswing of rebuilding. Pritch has done a fine job, doesn't mean he didn't fuck up the cap space and RLEC situation. Unless you think he's handling that perfectly.

 

[Da_O]

unless you think every post here should be:

our team is really good.

yay. go team.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are overly negative or just plain wrong. I'd rather focus on moving forward and not dwelling on the past. Looking ahead to possible moves or possible outcomes rather than what could have been or what should have been.

 

[Da_O]

He wasted RLEC. Options? do ANYTHING with it. One of the best expiring contracts in the history of the NBA and he couldn't turn it even into a backup PF? Oh that's right, he would have killed our cap-space this summer if he traded for a guy with a contract....gotta save that space.

Sure, this team has gotten better...what do you expect we're on the upswing of rebuilding. Pritch has done a fine job, doesn't mean he didn't fuck up the cap space and RLEC situation. Unless you think he's handling that perfectly.

Like I said it wasn't wasted, we tried and failed. So hey, let's fault the guy for it. We didn't see the options so we don't know shit. The summer is not over, you're being impatient along with being ill-informed.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Like I said it wasn't wasted, we tried and failed. So hey, let's fault the guy for it. We didn't see the options so we don't know shit. The summer is not over, you're being impatient along with being ill-informed.

Impatient how? I'm doing a retrospective on what happened. I don't want any of the rumored free agents out there, I'm fine with standing relatively pat right now since the 09 plan seems to be a monumental failure.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if they are overly negative or just plain wrong. I'd rather focus on moving forward and not dwelling on the past. Looking ahead to possible moves or possible outcomes rather than what could have been or what should have been.

then you repeat the errors of the past. i see the same thing about clearing cap space for 2010 now....even though it won't even be feasible really.

possible moves and outcomes...i've gone over that already in other threads.

 

[Da_O]

then you repeat the errors of the past. i see the same thing about clearing cap space for 2010 now....even though it won't even be feasible really.

possible moves and outcomes...i've gone over that already in other threads.

What errors? When you make a mistake you learn from it, but I can't nitpick when I don't know what were mistakes were or weren't made.

 

[Boob-No-More]

not this again.

Why not, the trade that brought us Rudy is related to the Zack trade. You can't talk about one and pretend the other didn't happen.

we bought Rudy for cash. sure, the "trade exception" got us james jones but we could have likely bought him straight up. Pritch wanted James Jones.

The trade exception was the key to the deal. It allowed Phoenix to unload Jones and stay under the luxury tax threshold. As far as Pritchard wanting James Jones - he must not have been all that enamored with him. In spite of playing well for Portland, Pritchard didn't even make a token offer to re-sign Jones. He let him walk. So, much for the notion that Pritchard falls in love with "his guys" and just won't ever let them, go.

we were one of the few teams that were in a position to stash a pick in Europe AND then help with the buyout.

This is total bullshit. Every team in the league is in the position to stash a pick in Europe AND then help with the buyout. The collective bargaining agreement allows teams to pitch in a maximum of $500,000 towards buying out a player's contract. Even crap teams like Memphis and the Clippers can afford to pay $500K to buy out a player like Rudy. Think about it, these teams commit a lot more than that in guaranteed salary to their lottery picks each and every year. In Rudy, they could have gotten lottery talent on a much smaller guaranteed rookie scale contract and all it would have cost them is $3 million for the pick and $500K for the buyout. That's less than the first year salary or a high lottery pick. Then, they have Rudy locked in on a cheap rookie scale contract at about $1 million per year for 4 years. But, no other team had the traded player exception to seal the deal with Phoenix.

BNM

 

[oldmangrouch]

What errors? When you make a mistake you learn from it, but I can't nitpick when I don't know what were mistakes were or weren't made.

There are 2 "levels" of mistake here.

We can talk about the "micro" mistakes - eg why did the Hedo deal fall through? was hedo the right target? etc. As you say, some of that is nitpicking.

There is also what some of us view as the "macro" mistake, which is playing the free agency game *at all*. Call me old-school, but I have much more faith in drafting and trading. The free agency market is unpredictable ( 2 years ago, this was predicted to be a "great" FA class - and it turned out to be crap), and ineffecient (as teams constantly over-pay to get the player they think they want).

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Take off the red and black glasses mr positive and deal with REALITY!!!!!! you think the lakers would be all smiles with winning 50 some odd games and a first round exit? Well with KP in charge he has managed to throw a huge chip (Raefs contract) away! It could of made this team a title contender with that chip. You don;t get those chances often and when you do you got to take full advantage of it. So get used to saying first round exit.

And.... ignore. Does Mixum still post here?

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

Why not, the trade that brought us Rudy is related to the Zack trade. You can't talk about one and pretend the other didn't happen.



The trade exception was the key to the deal. It allowed Phoenix to unload Jones and stay under the luxury tax threshold. As far as Pritchard wanting James Jones - he must not have been all that enamored with him. In spite of playing well for Portland, Pritchard didn't even make a token offer to re-sign Jones. He let him walk. So, much for the notion that Pritchard falls in love with "his guys" and just won't ever let them, go.



This is total bullshit. Every team in the league is in the position to stash a pick in Europe AND then help with the buyout. The collective bargaining agreement allows teams to pitch in a maximum of $500,000 towards buying out a player's contract. Even crap teams like Memphis and the Clippers can afford to pay $500K to buy out a player like Rudy. Think about it, these teams commit a lot more than that in guaranteed salary to their lottery picks each and every year. In Rudy, they could have gotten lottery talent on a much smaller guaranteed rookie scale contract and all it would have cost them is $3 million for the pick and $500K for the buyout. That's less than the first year salary or a high lottery pick. Then, they have Rudy locked in on a cheap rookie scale contract at about $1 million per year for 4 years. But, no other team had the traded player exception to seal the deal with Phoenix.

BNM

Yeah, but Portland has the cash b/c of Paul Allens money to buy Rudy outright from Phoenix, they've done it before and PHX was looking to make money. Also, they were in a rebuilding window where waiting a year wouldn't be so bad.

The primary objective of trading Zach Randolph was not a trade exception in order to get James Jones in order to have Phoenix "throw in" Rudy Fernandez. The primary objective was the 09 Plan, clearing up "tons of cap space in Summer 09". We have to remember in the future, that this plan is teh suck

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

Yeah, but Portland has the cash b/c of Paul Allens money to buy Rudy outright from Phoenix, they've done it before and PHX was looking to make money. Also, they were in a rebuilding window where waiting a year wouldn't be so bad.

The primary objective of trading Zach Randolph was not a trade exception in order to get James Jones in order to have Phoenix "throw in" Rudy Fernandez. The primary objective was the 09 Plan, clearing up "tons of cap space in Summer 09". We have to remember in the future, that this plan is teh suck

I disagree. I think the primary plan of that trade was to get Zach out of Portland.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

I disagree. I think the primary plan of that trade was to get Zach out of Portland.

perhaps. the justification was cap space in summer 09. even with that, many felt that they got crap out of it....he has been tradeable for cap space even until now. no rush.

 

[STOMP]

Yeah, but Portland has the cash b/c of Paul Allens money to buy Rudy outright from Phoenix, they've done it before and PHX was looking to make money. Also, they were in a rebuilding window where waiting a year wouldn't be so bad.

you missed BNM's point. In term of what rotation level players cost, Rudy was a very cheap get for any owner. The key was having the sort of currency that PHX wanted. Without the player exception that they got from the Zach deal, Portland would not have landed Rudy.

but if you're just in to vent today facts be damned, carry on

STOMP

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

you missed BNM's point. In term of what rotation level players cost, Rudy was a very cheap get for any owner. The key was having the sort of currency that PHX wanted. Without the player exception that they got from the Zach deal, Portland would not have landed Rudy.

but if you're just in to vent today facts be damned, carry on

STOMP

They very well could have just sold the pick outright. KP was targetting Jones but then didn't resign him.

Facts be damned? I'm not making anything up. I'm merely speculating we could have bought the pick outright, we did it with Sergio and PHX was looking for cash. Pritch wanted Jones, he wasn't part of some master scheme just to obtain Rudy....like many Pritch moves, it just didn't turn out as expected.

but if you want to be petty, carry on

 

[STOMP]

They very well could have just sold the pick outright. KP was targetting Jones but then didn't resign him.

Facts be damned? I'm not making anything up. I'm merely speculating we could have bought the pick outright, we did it with Sergio and PHX was looking for cash. Pritch wanted Jones, he wasn't part of some master scheme just to obtain Rudy....like many Pritch moves, it just didn't turn out as expected.

speculating = making things up

facts = what happened

KP obtained Rudy with the trade exception obtained in the ZR trade, so the facts don't fit your rant... but I'm petty

STOMP

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

speculating = making things up

facts = what happened

KP obtained Rudy with the trade exception obtained in the ZR trade, so the facts don't fit your rant... but I'm petty

STOMP

KP obtained James Jones with the trade exception. Rudy was for cash as you can't obtain draft picks using trade exceptions, only players salaries.

Since you are being petty.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Adding Steve Blake to this team was a good move. He played a significant role last season. He had a terrible series against Houston, and most of us realize that replacing him with a better starting guard is one way we can improve this team.

It's just the beginning of the off-season. Chill out.

 

[STOMP]

KP obtained James Jones with the trade exception. Rudy was for cash as you can't obtain draft picks using trade exceptions, only players salaries.

Since you are being petty.

good grief dude... take a look in the mirror, you're pettiness is off the charts.

The James Jones + Rudy trade used the trade exception acquired in the ZR trade and Blazer brass sited it as a key to the deal happening. Those are facts. You can speculate/make shit up that possibly these deals could have been separated and PHX might have dealt just Rudy for cash without JJ involved, but facts are it didn't happen that way... PHX wanted the exception.

STOMP

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

yes, the exception for James Jones.