KP needs to step up

[The_Lillard_King]

I have seen a couple of trades already go down this year and wonder if there is a team in the NBA that needs a trade as bad as the Blazers. Blazers have a bucket load of guards and one legit big man.

KP can not get away with "I don't like to trade mid-season" or "we thought about it and decided we want to go to war with these guys". The Blazers need to trade for a legit big man this year and it is time to see if KP can get it done. I really don't want to hear antoher cliche about why trading is a bad idea . . . trades are part of the NBA and given the Blazer situation, KP needs to figure something out and more importantly make something happen.

THis is KP's time to shine . . .


GO BLAZERS!

 

[RR7]

Do you think it makes sense to get rid of more talented players just to fill the slot of a big guy for the season? What sort of trade are you envisioning, exactly?

 

[KingSpeed]

Do you think it makes sense to get rid of more talented players just to fill the slot of a big guy for the season? What sort of trade are you envisioning, exactly?

Exactly. I don't think we should make a knee jerk reaction trade to put a bandaid on the season. We should only make trades that help us in the long term. As many of you know, I was in favor of trading Miller for a forward but at this point, we're getting decent production out of Miller and I say we stand by him as he is just getting used to playing with these guys. Bayless is proving to be fool's gold and should still play behind Rudy who I don't think would ever shoot 0-7.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Let's hope that as the deadline approaches, some team with poor attendance will panic and start looking for a salary dump. Will KP change his ways and take advantage? I'm not holding my breath.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Do you think it makes sense to get rid of more talented players just to fill the slot of a big guy for the season? What sort of trade are you envisioning, exactly?

Put it that way and of course not.

IMO, the Blazers need a big man for this year and the upcoming years. Can you really depend on Greg for a season? How long will it take for Joel to come back from that nasty injury at his age? Will Joel resign after rehabbing all next year?

I also wonder if KP over values the talent on this team. I know some on this board wouldn't trade Bayless for Parker or Rose . . . I would hope KP is not in that ballpark.


The Blazers are clearly in a sitaution where they need a quality big. That is when the GM is suppose to step up and getthat big man. I've got some ideas for trades, but I don't pretend to know more than scouts or GMs. This is why KP gets the big bucks, get a big man in a trade that makes sense.

To say there are no good trades out there and we are just going to ride out the year and wait for the big men to come back (with all this suppose talent on the team) is a chicken shit way to deal with the sitaution . . . . .. . IMO.

 

[RR7]

How is it chicken shit? What if there are no good trades out there? What deals do you have in mind?

I am not in the I wouldn't trade Bayless for Rose camp. Far from it. I am all for bringing in a big man. I just question the resources we have to do it, and the availability of these big men that would help both now and the future. I am not calling you out saying name some, they don't exist. I'm curious what you have in mind. You seem adamant that it's a possibility, adn KP needs to get it done. What do you have in mind,?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

How is it chicken shit? What if there are no good trades out there? What deals do you have in mind?

I am not in the I wouldn't trade Bayless for Rose camp. Far from it. I am all for bringing in a big man. I just question the resources we have to do it, and the availability of these big men that would help both now and the future. I am not calling you out saying name some, they don't exist. I'm curious what you have in mind. You seem adamant that it's a possibility, adn KP needs to get it done. What do you have in mind,?

I thought Drexlersdad put out a good thread about big men to trade for. Camby, Dalembert, Foster, thre some young bigs on the bench. I would concentarte on the teams with hard finacial times, teams wanting to clear cap space for this summers fantasy draft, or players on bad teams who are disgruntled.

I'm sure if KP doesn't get a trade done, it will be because "we evaluated the sitaution, we talked to a lot of teams, and there wasn't anything out there that we felt good about. We like our guys, yes we have faced some tough situations and have to overcome adversity, but if we are going to do taht, these are the guys I want to do that with. We are going to see exactly what we got here and re-evaluate this summer"

Again I don't know if there are good trades out there. I see some other GMs making trades and taking chances. How long can we expect Roy to play at this level? If Oden can't be counted on, then we can't take the approach of waiting and hoping for the youth to develop. Let's ride Roy's coatails right now and surround him with players that will allow Roy to take this team to another level.


http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152111

 

[craigehlo]

We have too many guards and not enough minutes. The situation is only going to get worse when Rudy returns next month. Andre or Blake should go at the very least to free up needed minutes if we are looking toward developing young players.

I'd personally like to see the Blazer making a play for Deng since the Bulls want to me players in the 2010 FA market. TO & Blake plus another player might work. Deng can play SF/PF and help with both scoring and rebounding.

 

[RR7]

See other GMs making trades? There have been two trades, neither with much of any talent involved, and both strictly made because of money. Made because teams had either cap space, or a non-guaranteed contract. Tucker and Hart being traded for eachother doesn't make me think there's deals just flying around.

As for options,

Camby would be diffiicult for us to get without adding in something of value. because he is expiring, they have absolutely NO reason to trade him for Blake and Outlaw(expirings). As a free agent, he isn't ahelp to us next season. We'd be able to sign him this offseason for any sort of future help. Is 45 games of Camby worth Bayless, Rudy, Batum or a first round pick? I certainly don't think so. He maybe gets us to the second round, but at what price? I'd love to have him. I don't see it as all that feasible.

Dalembert, I'm sure, is radily available. In order to get contracts to work, we'd have to give up Blake, Outlaw, and still be short. Webster works. We're then left without a SF. So we remove one problem, and create another. At least, until people are back from injuries.

I'd like Foster. He's similar to Joel. Since he has a year left, I think expirings should be able to do it for them.

The list thins out some after that. And it thins to the point where, you , again, start to weight the benefit of making a move for them, and what they'll actually add to the team. Young bigs on a bench? What's to say someone else's young big on their bench is any better than Pendergraph? Who we have for free.

 

[BBert]

I don't think we should make a knee jerk reaction trade to put a bandaid on the season. We should only make trades that help us in the long term.

Exactly.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

See other GMs making trades? There have been two trades, neither with much of any talent involved, and both strictly made because of money. Made because teams had either cap space, or a non-guaranteed contract. Tucker and Hart being traded for eachother doesn't make me think there's deals just flying around.

As for options,

Camby would be diffiicult for us to get without adding in something of value. because he is expiring, they have absolutely NO reason to trade him for Blake and Outlaw(expirings). As a free agent, he isn't ahelp to us next season. We'd be able to sign him this offseason for any sort of future help. Is 45 games of Camby worth Bayless, Rudy, Batum or a first round pick? I certainly don't think so. He maybe gets us to the second round, but at what price? I'd love to have him. I don't see it as all that feasible.

Dalembert, I'm sure, is radily available. In order to get contracts to work, we'd have to give up Blake, Outlaw, and still be short. Webster works. We're then left without a SF. So we remove one problem, and create another. At least, until people are back from injuries.

I'd like Foster. He's similar to Joel. Since he has a year left, I think expirings should be able to do it for them.

The list thins out some after that. And it thins to the point where, you , again, start to weight the benefit of making a move for them, and what they'll actually add to the team. Young bigs on a bench? What's to say someone else's young big on their bench is any better than Pendergraph? Who we have for free.

You make alot of sense with each player I named (which is why I"ll just leave it up to KP) . . . I should say I'm not as concerned about trading a Rudy or Bayless, because that is what you got to give up to get something. I am at the stage where you got to take a chance. I don't want to hope Pendergraph is the answer. I love young talent like the rest (well maybe not as much as posters here), but there is plenty more young talent coming up. Rudy, Webster, Bayless, Outlaw, Blake . . . (love em) but they are replacable (maybe not Rudy, but with Roy I throw Rudy in there) Send a potential great talent for an established big . . . yes in my mind it is worth it. Then while everyone is playing free agent signing with cap space, Blazers can resign a Camby (Kamen) without needing the cap space.

I started all this by putting the pressure on KP. This is his job. He gets paid big bucks to figure this stuff out. I hope he has the guts to pull off a trade . . . because sometimes I feel he is a little gutless in that area (while I understand the other side is that he isn't gutless there isn't a good trade out there . . . just seems like such an easy way out when we have Howard as our starting center)

(Stephen Jackson got traded this year too)

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Exactly.

Well BB, I don't think we should make a knee jerk reaction trade. I think should make a well thought out trade.

 

[RR7]

Well then, that's where I disagree. I think adding someone like Camby for a player like Rudy, Bayless, or Batum is a terrible idea. I don't care about having his bird rights, since he won't get above the MLE next season anyways. If he doesn't put us over the top this season, then why not just sign him in the offseason, and have him AND Rudy, Batum, Bayless, etc. It makes no sense at all to do, IMO. It's terrible. If we got someone to help for the future as well? Sure. I agree with you, I like youth, but am not concerned about gettign rid of it. but getting rid of it for a 33 year old C on an expiring contract, who has his own injury history? It's not guts. It's smarts. You don't make that deal if it isn't putting you over the top. Or getting you close. That deal doesn't.

 

[RR7]

Sorry, I said 33, he'll be 36 soon.

 

[ebott]

IMO, the Blazers need a big man for this year and the upcoming years. Can you really depend on Greg for a season?

So trade him.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Well then, that's where I disagree. I think adding someone like Camby for a player like Rudy, Bayless, or Batum is a terrible idea. I don't care about having his bird rights, since he won't get above the MLE next season anyways. If he doesn't put us over the top this season, then why not just sign him in the offseason, and have him AND Rudy, Batum, Bayless, etc. It makes no sense at all to do, IMO. It's terrible. If we got someone to help for the future as well? Sure. I agree with you, I like youth, but am not concerned about gettign rid of it. but getting rid of it for a 33 year old C on an expiring contract, who has his own injury history? It's not guts. It's smarts. You don't make that deal if it isn't putting you over the top. Or getting you close. That deal doesn't.

If your standard is a deal putting you over the top, then the Blazers should not make a move this season.

If your content with Howard starting and just playing out the year, so we can get to the next year, then I get where you are coming from. I do think that is not a smart perspective for KP to take.

All of a sudden this is about if Camby is the fit rather than if a KP should get deal done. I like Camby and would love to see him on this year's Blazers (for a young talent which we have tons of) . . . but more than that I would like to see KP (a man who gets tons of praise here) take some action. KP has done some good things, that 2006 draft was classic. But things have gotten real bad this season and it is the old what have you done for me lately.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

So trade him.

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

 

[RR7]

That's the problem. Why judge him on a what have you done for me lately approach? Look at the entire field of work. It almost soudns now like you've gotten slightly bored, and want him to make a move almost just to make a move. just want to see him take action. IMO, that's the wrong move to make. Especially in a season like this, where we are decimated by injuries, you leave yourself open to making a move because you feel you need to, and then it bites you in the ass long term. I think he'd make a mvoe that makes sense. And not make one that doesn't make as much sense. Which makes it difficult to judge. I have no doubt he's tried. But how many teams do you think are playing hard ball, knowing we are now desparate for a big man. I'm sure the price went up 10% because of that alone. So why pay more for something? You have to look long term and short term. Who is going to help long term? I'd like to see a deal centered around Okafor. I typed it up in detail in another thread. But if we don't make that deal, I'm not going to think KP has no balls. Who am I to say that? How do we know that NO didn't just say no, we won't move Okafor without Rudy and Batum in return. We don't. I think it's ok to get slightly bummed about the lack of amove here and there, but it seems like more an dmore, people are looking to turn on KP, and it seems to go over the top at times. Especially with making amove just to take some action. And then feeling the need to complain if that action hasn't happened, without having any way of knowing the full extent of what is available, offered, etc. And, what he is told by HIS boss. What is Paul says because of my health, I on't want to take on mroe long term salary?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That's the problem. Why judge him on a what have you done for me lately approach? Look at the entire field of work. It almost soudns now like you've gotten slightly bored, and want him to make a move almost just to make a move. just want to see him take action. IMO, that's the wrong move to make. Especially in a season like this, where we are decimated by injuries, you leave yourself open to making a move because you feel you need to, and then it bites you in the ass long term. I think he'd make a mvoe that makes sense. And not make one that doesn't make as much sense. Which makes it difficult to judge. I have no doubt he's tried. But how many teams do you think are playing hard ball, knowing we are now desparate for a big man. I'm sure the price went up 10% because of that alone. So why pay more for something? You have to look long term and short term. Who is going to help long term? I'd like to see a deal centered around Okafor. I typed it up in detail in another thread. But if we don't make that deal, I'm not going to think KP has no balls. Who am I to say that? How do we know that NO didn't just say no, we won't move Okafor without Rudy and Batum in return. We don't. I think it's ok to get slightly bummed about the lack of amove here and there, but it seems like more an dmore, people are looking to turn on KP, and it seems to go over the top at times. Especially with making amove just to take some action. And then feeling the need to complain if that action hasn't happened, without having any way of knowing the full extent of what is available, offered, etc. And, what he is told by HIS boss. What is Paul says because of my health, I on't want to take on mroe long term salary?

What are you talking about? Bored? This year I have watched Outlaw, Oden and Joel go down and Howard starting at center. I am watching Roy being used more than I have ever seen him being used (maybe we should just shut him down for the year and save him for next year) I am rarely on here advocating for a trade . . . but I think things are just a little different this year.

So clearly we aren't communicating if you think I am yelling to make a trade just for the sake of making a trade. I am saying make a trade to fill a huge hole we have in the paint for one of teh many young talents we have.

We both agree that we both think KP is trying and should only make a move that makes sense . . . I question his effectiveness, you don't. But how can you possibly think I am on here to talk about trading just for the sake of trading.

I'm done . . . peace.

 

[RR7]

Again, I just don't see the long term benefit of plugging a hole on a seemingly lost season if it doesn't help us in the future. Guys like Dalembert, Camby, and many others actually available do not do that. I am fine with making such a move if it is a strictly financial move(expirings for said player). But moving actual talent for a stop gap fix, just to get slightly more enjoyment out of this season is a rash move in my opinion.

 

[BlazersBlood]

I love threads like these. "KP NEEDS TO PULL HIS HEAD FROM HIS ASS! HE NEEDS TO GET A GOOD SKILLED BIG MAN ASAP!!!!!!!!!!" OK, what GM is willing to hand out players like those? And who do you assume we are going to trade? Blake, Bayless, Webster, Outlaw or Andre Miller? What GM would get rid of the most coveted position in basketball for some scrubs on our bench? It's not going to happen.

KP isn't exactly in a position of strength right now either. Teams know we are desperate, and probably aren't going to give us fair value at the moment. In basketball you can't get quality for quantity like football.

 

[craigehlo]

OK, what GM is willing to hand out players like those? And who do you assume we are going to trade? Blake, Bayless, Webster, Outlaw or Andre Miller? What GM would get rid of the most coveted position in basketball for some scrubs on our bench? It's not going to happen.

Sure, you aren't going to get Chris Bosh for any of those guys. But I guarantee you some team would make a deal for TO & Blake's expiring contracts to clear cap space. If they are willing to include a player like Rudy, Batum or Bayless the quality of player coming back to the Blazers gets much better as well. We have the assets to make a deal where we get good value in return.

I think KP does make a deal since we saw him go after Turk and Milsap in the summer. He struck out in free agency and had to settle for Andre. I think he targets a SF and backup big again before the deadline.

 

[MIXUM]

welcome to the party... we needed a trade last feb

 

[andalusian]

welcome to the party... we needed a trade last feb

Of course. As you told us. And we did not make the playoffs...





As you told us.

 

[illmatic99]

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

You want us to trade Oden??? WTF.

 

[Eastoff]

Can you really depend on Greg for a season?

seriously, get rid of your f'ing avatar and nickname if you're going to say that.

 

[jlprk]

See other GMs making trades?

RR, whenever someone says Pritchard should make a trade for once in his life, you win by asking the poster to have GM-like inside knowledge of the players available right now. You do this year-round, but ask for the "right now." Mind if I ask you for details, instead of you asking for them? Can I ask you--what specific trades would you have made during Pritchard's tenure?

League-wide, was anyone traded in that time for whom you would have bidded? Would you have ever offered anything more than for what the player was finally traded? If not, then you never would have made a trade in the last 3 years. If so, what would you have offered for him?

Do you believe that trades should ever be made? Is there ever a better time to seek a trade than when we desperately need one position, yet have a surplus at another position?

If not, couldn't we pay our GM half as much, or replace him with the Chief Scout to run draft day (and maybe make a trade, since its the Scout's advice that heavily influences it anyway)? Why do we need a GM if we never make a trade?

 

[B-Roy]

seriously, get rid of your f'ing avatar and nickname if you're going to say that.

It's a legit question though.

 

[oldmangrouch]

RR, whenever someone says Pritchard should make a trade for once in his life, you win by asking the poster to have GM-like inside knowledge of the players available right now. You do this year-round, but ask for the "right now." Mind if I ask you for details, instead of you asking for them? Can I ask you--what specific trades would you have made during Pritchard's tenure?

League-wide, was anyone traded in that time for whom you would have bidded? Would you have ever offered anything more than for what the player was finally traded? If not, then you never would have made a trade in the last 3 years. If so, what would you have offered for him?

Do you believe that trades should ever be made? Is there ever a better time to seek a trade than when we desperately need one position, yet have a surplus at another position?

If not, couldn't we pay our GM half as much, or replace him with the Chief Scout to run draft day (and maybe make a trade, since its the Scout's advice that heavily influences it anyway)? Why do we need a GM if we never make a trade?

An inspired rant, filled with much (uncomfortable) truth. Bravo!