KP--the "Steve Blake" of GMs? (1 Viewer)

[PtldPlatypus]

Thinking back on KP's tenure and the criticisms some have had on him, it seems like most of them stem from making the "safe" play.
--He went with the conventional wisdom in drafting the big guy, rather than going against the grain and picking the transcendant talent;
--He traded ZBO right away, rather than hold out for better offers;
--He kept the FA money from RLEC, rather than use the chip to trade for another semi-star.

Is KP essentially being criticized for trying to minimize turnovers? Wouldn't it be ironic if KP really is trying to oust McMillan for being an overly-conservative coach, while KP is facing heat for being an overly-conservative GM?

 

[Minstrel]

Thinking back on KP's tenure and the criticisms some have had on him, it seems like most of them stem from making the "safe" play.
--He went with the conventional wisdom in drafting the big guy, rather than going against the grain and picking the transcendant talent;

The problem is that the big man was also a transcendent talent. And he was a greater need for the team than a swingman. So he chose the BPA, biggest need and it also happened to fit conventional wisdom. That it happened to be conventional wisdom doesn't seem like the key part of that.

Pritchard may have been conservative to this point, but he's been in one stage of team-building: building up the talent base from ashes to a solid foundation. Some conservatism can be called for, in evaluating what you have in your young players before making the big splash trades. As the team is transitioning into the "go for it all" stage, it will be interesting to see if becomes less conservative. Trading Outlaw/Blake for Camby was definitely not a status quo move.

 

[axs88]

Remember when KP was stressing he would keep an open mind and evaluate Oden and KD long and hard, and everybody was freaked out he might choose Durant? He was criticized by many to even consider taking the skinny guy who couldn't even do one bench press.

If anything, I think he was less conventional than most GMs (who would have probably had an Oden jersey at the lottery) in that he was seriously contemplating taking Durant.

 

[BGrantFan]

--He kept the FA money from RLEC, rather than use the chip to trade for another semi-star.

Well, now that the Raef deal is finally over, let's see what the Blazers got by holding that card over getting a Richard Jefferson or a Vince Carter.

Andre Miller
Camby for Outlaw/Blake/cash. I say this because Outlaw/Blake/Webster likely would have been involved in a deal for a semi-star on a big contract (along with either Batum or Rudy, I'm sure.

It's not like that money just went into a piggy bank.

 

[Rodolfo]

Thinking back on KP's tenure and the criticisms some have had on him, it seems like most of them stem from making the "safe" play.
--He went with the conventional wisdom in drafting the big guy, rather than going against the grain and picking the transcendant talent;
--He traded ZBO right away, rather than hold out for better offers;
--He kept the FA money from RLEC, rather than use the chip to trade for another semi-star.

Is KP essentially being criticized for trying to minimize turnovers? Wouldn't it be ironic if KP really is trying to oust McMillan for being an overly-conservative coach, while KP is facing heat for being an overly-conservative GM?

Do you really think Paul Allen didn't make the decision to draft Oden over Durant?

 

[LameR]

Oden was billed as being a bigger impact guy than Durant.

Channing Frye had previously been a really solid young big man, and most people really wanted to get rid of Zach to make room for Aldridge. At the time it was a solid move. Since then, Aldridge hasn't progressed as much as we thought he would, and Randolph has shaped up. It was a good move at the time.

 

[Minstrel]

It was a good move at the time.

I don't agree that the Randolph trade was a good one, even at the time. But I don't see how it was the "safe" or "conventional" move. It seems like quite a risk to deal away the player who had been Portland's best player the past few years.

 

[Cake]

Thinking back on KP's tenure and the criticisms some have had on him, it seems like most of them stem from making the "safe" play.

--He went with the conventional wisdom in drafting the big guy, rather than going against the grain and picking the transcendant talent;
--He traded ZBO right away, rather than hold out for better offers;
--He kept the FA money from RLEC, rather than use the chip to trade for another semi-star.

point one: nobody knew Durant was transcendant at the time. That's hindsight. It was the same pick that every other GM would have made. If you want to call that being conservative, that's fine...and wrong. If we would have picked Durant, he probably would have broken his leg in a scooter accident and Oden would be dropping 30 and 18 with 6 blocks.

point two: how do you know he took the 1st offer? Better yet, how do you know there would have been additional offers? If you take the first offer, that doesn't make you conservative. In fact, the most conservative play would have been to keep Zach. Trading a future all-star power forward for essentially nothing is a pretty big gamble.

point three: I think that's actually the bigger risk, waiting until the free agent market so he could try to make a bigger splash. trading RLEC for a player like vince Carter would have been the safe move.

I'm not saying that, using hindsight, Pritchard has been perfect. But slamming him for being conservative is wrong.

 

[Ed O]

I don't agree that the Randolph trade was a good one, even at the time. But I don't see how it was the "safe" or "conventional" move. It seems like quite a risk to deal away the player who had been Portland's best player the past few years.

I thought it was a bad move at the time and still do.

I just am saying "I told you so" because I'm so often wrong that I want to crow when I'm actually right about something.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Remember when KP was stressing he would keep an open mind and evaluate Oden and KD long and hard, and everybody was freaked out he might choose Durant? He was criticized by many to even consider taking the skinny guy who couldn't even do one bench press.

If anything, I think he was less conventional than most GMs (who would have probably had an Oden jersey at the lottery) in that he was seriously contemplating taking Durant.

I remember this and agree with KP being unconventional. I also remember how much KP was talking about Durant prior to the lottery and threw out some crazy line about possibly being the #1 pick. I think KP loved Durant . . . and I remember posters very concerned he might pick Durant.

In the end I think KP's gut instincts were right and Durant turned out to be the franchise player he thought he would be. But there was no way as a young GM you pick Durant over Oden and I think KP really had no choice but to pick Oden.

Remember some of the rumors for the Oden pick. Mello was thrown out there and there I remember there was one team that said you can pick any player or something like that. Everyone wanted Oden.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I thought it was a bad move at the time and still do.

I just am saying "I told you so" because I'm so often wrong that I want to crow when I'm actually right about something.

Ed O.

You were also right about contract negotaitions. When everyone wanted Aldridge locked up this summer, you questioned what the rush was and that managent shouldn't just give in to the demands of a player.

I think you even said there is nothing wrong with not locking them up last summer (hope I got your position right)

I was on the other side because I thought Aldrdige and Roy were the faces of the franchise you need to keep happy. But in hindsight, the Blazers had most of the leverage last summer, didn't really use it and it might have hurt them with the new CBA coming up.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Yup. Selective memory is great. about 100% of the league would have picked Oden with the first pick in the draft.

 

[Minstrel]

I thought it was a bad move at the time and still do.

I was there too.

But I was very wrong about Roy at the time of his drafting. So you win some, you lose some.

 

[BGrantFan]

I thought it was a bad move at the time and still do.

I just am saying "I told you so" because I'm so often wrong that I want to crow when I'm actually right about something.

Ed O.

Memphis is out of the playoffs again. Portland will be in the playoffs for a second straight year.

What is the "I told you so"?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Memphis is out of the playoffs again. Portland will be in the playoffs for a second straight year.

What is the "I told you so"?

Where are Steve Francis and Channing Frye?

 

[LittleAlex]

I don't agree that the Randolph trade was a good one, even at the time. But I don't see how it was the "safe" or "conventional" move. It seems like quite a risk to deal away the player who had been Portland's best player the past few years.

The Randolph move was about addition through subtraction.

Does no one else remember what a complete shit head Zach was both off and on the court?

Don't you remember the thousand and one times he just stared down the court after missing a shot while the other team played 4 on 5?

How about the time he was excused from a game to attend a funeral and then went to strip club during the game?

Or the alleged stripper rape. Or the dog fighting with Quintel Woods.

Zach needed to go. Perhaps he has matured some now. Good for him.

At the time that dude was a complete tool and needed to be shipped for anything. The fact Portland actually got a servicable player was just gravy.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The Randolph move was about addition through subtraction.

Does no one else remember what a complete shit head Zach was both off and on the court?

Don't you remember the thousand and one times he just stared down the court after missing a shot while the other team played 4 on 5?

How about the time he was excused from a game to attend a funeral and then went to strip club during the game?

Or the alleged stripper rape. Or the dog fighting with Quintel Woods.

Zach needed to go. Perhaps he has matured some now. Good for him.

At the time that dude was a complete tool and needed to be shipped for anything. The fact Portland actually got a servicable player was just gravy.

I agreed he probably needed to go, but we basically got rid of him for pennies on the dollar; was it really necessary to pay Steve Francis 30 million dollars to go away and Charmin Frye wasn't exactly much of a player (despite his modestly promising rookie season). I didn't have a problem trading Zach, but I've long wondered if that was really the best they could do.

 

[RR7]

Do you think someone was going to give up actual talent or an expiring contract for him?

 

[maxiep]

I have only one issue with the Zach deal: we should have insisted that Miles was included for Malik Rose (who was a 2009 expiring contract). I would have sweetened the pot with some future draft picks to make that happen. Those from O-Live should remember me railing on that point.

 

[BGrantFan]

Where are Steve Francis and Channing Frye?

Rudy Fernandez via the trade exception in that deal?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I have only one issue with the Zach deal: we should have insisted that Miles was included for Malik Rose (who was a 2009 expiring contract). I would have sweetened the pot with some future draft picks to make that happen. Those from O-Live should remember me railing on that point.

I certainly remember me agreeing with you on that point.

 

[RR7]

The Miles part, though, sounds like KP wanted it, but Allen did not. Can't blame the GM for an owner falling in love with a crappy player.

 

[STOMP]

The Randolph move was about addition through subtraction.

Does no one else remember what a complete shit head Zach was both off and on the court?

Don't you remember the thousand and one times he just stared down the court after missing a shot while the other team played 4 on 5?

How about the time he was excused from a game to attend a funeral and then went to strip club during the game?

Or the alleged stripper rape. Or the dog fighting with Quintel Woods.

Zach needed to go. Perhaps he has matured some now. Good for him.

At the time that dude was a complete tool and needed to be shipped for anything. The fact Portland actually got a servicable player was just gravy.

+1

...and as others have noted, deciding that the team was greater then it's untrustable top player was definitely not a conservative move

STOMP

 

[jlprk]

Tanking is what got Pritchard high picks 2 years in a row. We lost a lot of games by playing the young guys like Telfair over Stoudamire to see what they could do, and by elongating each player's missed games due to injury in the last month of each season to get higher draft position.

Post #s 3 and 6 are opposites--Pritchard carefully considered Durant, vs. it wasn't Pritchard's decision and he was just acting. I think he carefully considered Durant.

Oden was billed as being a bigger impact guy than Durant.

Channing Frye had previously been a really solid young big man, and most people really wanted to get rid of Zach to make room for Aldridge. At the time it was a solid move. Since then, Aldridge hasn't progressed as much as we thought he would, and Randolph has shaped up. It was a good move at the time.

The Zach trade was considered a giveaway, not a good move. The Blazers were simply dumping him for less than nothing. You leave out the $30M Paul Allen paid to make Pritchard look good.

point one: nobody knew Durant was transcendant at the time. That's hindsight.

Everyone knew Durant would be a superstar forward. It was all over the media that this would be a rare draft with 2 superstars.

In the end I think KP's gut instincts were right and Durant turned out to be the franchise player he thought he would be.

No gut instincts involved. It was done the usual way, by analyzing opinions from the scouting system. No hunches. That's why he took his time thinking about Durant.

Memphis is out of the playoffs again. Portland will be in the playoffs for a second straight year. What is the "I told you so"?

Are you aware Zach was on the all-star team this year? That he has a higher PER than Roy?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300214032

 

[Nikolokolus]

Rudy Fernandez via the trade exception in that deal?

So let's say it's actually only a trade for Rudy Fernandez ... that's just as depressing IMO.

 

[BGrantFan]

So let's say it's actually only a trade for Rudy Fernandez ... that's just as depressing IMO.

Why? What did New York get out of the deal? Randolph is on his 3rd team post-Blazers. None have made the playoffs as of yet.

 

[RoyToy]

I laugh at people who still think the Zach trade should be considered a bad move. It was clear he had to go with Oden and Aldridge emerging as the "twin towers" for Portland. Do you really want to overpay Zach to come off the bench? Or let him play over Aldridge? Take the ball out of Roy's hands?

You can try and make the argument all you want that they didn't have to rush it since Oden ended up being injured anyways and maybe wait for Randolph to up his value, but it's obvious that Randolph had no value throughout the league so it'd be a waste of time. That's why he's been traded 3 times in 3 years for scraps. His contract is a joke and he doesn't come close to justifying it, and he's on the books through the 2010 FA, a year that like half the league is targeting.

Zach's gone and the Blazers haven't missed him one bit.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Why? What did New York get out of the deal? Randolph is on his 3rd team post-Blazers. None have made the playoffs as of yet.

For all of Zach's warts (and there are plenty) he's a far more effective player than Rudy (neither plays much defense so I leave that out of the comparison)

And I don't really care what New York did with him after they traded for him, the issue is 'are the Blazers better off for having traded him for what we got in return'? I don't know that you can confidently say yes to that question.

 

[hasoos]

For all of Zach's warts (and there are plenty) he's a far more effective player than Rudy (neither plays much defense so I leave that out of the comparison)

And I don't really care what New York did with him after they traded for him, the issue is 'are the Blazers better off for having traded him for what we got in return'? I don't know that you can confidently say yes to that question.

This is another what has he done lately thread. Zbo went to several teams and stunk it up until he went to Memphis, and now supposedly he has changed? I don't see Memphis in the playoffs. Remember we got to see Roy and Zbo play together. It didn't work so well.

 

[LittleAlex]

For all of Zach's warts (and there are plenty) he's a far more effective player than Rudy (neither plays much defense so I leave that out of the comparison)

And I don't really care what New York did with him after they traded for him, the issue is 'are the Blazers better off for having traded him for what we got in return'? I don't know that you can confidently say yes to that question.

The two players have literally nothing in common in their games so this comparison is pointless.

Here is the one thing they have in common as basketball players: Neither player gets a ton of blocks.

That's it.

Zach was then, is now and will always be a loser. He will put up good numbers on mediocre to bad teams for his whole career.

I don't know about you, but I would gladly trade a 20/10 guy to make the playoffs now and again.