KP's interest in Conley

[Nikolokolus]

He made this comment during Media day. "You can tell Jerryd is more of a natural SG" is the exact quote from that short clip they showed on Ch. 8.

Even then how does Jerryd being a defensive 1 and an offensive 2 make him incompatible with this team; isn't that the role that Blake plays a lot of the time to great success opposite of Brandon?

 

[Minstrel]

He made this comment during Media day. "You can tell Jerryd is more of a natural SG" is the exact quote from that short clip they showed on Ch. 8.

As the more detailed comment Nikolokolus posted shows, Roy is extremely positive about Bayless being more of a 2 on offense and able to defend point guards. And I think Roy is exactly right. Roy and Bayless combined have as much distribution ability as a "classical" point guard and shooting guard. And Bayless is perfectly suited to defend point guards, while Roy is perfectly suited to defend shooting guards.

Wherein lies the problem?

 

[MARIS61]

During the 07 draft KP tried to land Conley. Last year there were talks also. Conley is playing like absolute garbage right now but his ceiling is pretty high. He's just having a down year and his numbers are comparable to Devin's at the same age.

In KP we trust?

KP has never shown any interest in Conley.

KP did not try to land Conley, and in fact said at the time we would not pursue Conley because he did not fit with our future core players even though he was a friend of Greg's.

Conley would not have even been drafted at all if not for his famous teammates, and has been overachieving IMO.

 

[MARIS61]

As the more detailed comment Nikolokolus posted shows, Roy is extremely positive about Bayless being more of a 2 on offense and able to defend point guards. And I think Roy is exactly right. Roy and Bayless combined have as much distribution ability as a "classical" point guard and shooting guard. And Bayless is perfectly suited to defend point guards, while Roy is perfectly suited to defend shooting guards.

Wherein lies the problem?

Neither has exceptional court vision, both look for their own shot first, and second. Roy has a definite half-court mentality and monopolizes the ball which kills off-ball player movement. Neither is a good perimeter defender.

 

[STOMP]

Sorry, didn't know I had to post 5 times a day to be able to make generalizations. I would think, in general, and again, this is making a generalization, so I apologize, but I would think that most would be able to read a generalization, and know it doesn't refer to every single person who reads, posts, and talks about the Blazers. And would think that I can do that by making one post a day or 6, but I'll try to boost my post total a bit so I can make generalizations in the future with more to back them, i suppose.

Jebus dude... do you always overreact like this? Was this witty?

STOMP

 

[Da_O]

Neither has exceptional court vision, both look for their own shot first, and second. Roy has a definite half-court mentality and monopolizes the ball which kills off-ball player movement. Neither is a good perimeter defender.

You're right they're both terrible and should be traded.

 

[Da_O]

Jebus dude... do you always overreact like this? Was this witty?

STOMP

Now you're making a generalization.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Neither has exceptional court vision, both look for their own shot first, and second. Roy has a definite half-court mentality and monopolizes the ball which kills off-ball player movement. Neither is a good perimeter defender.

I'll give you credit Maris, when you're in the mood to speak fallacies you go balls out and pile them up.

 

[MARIS61]

What part do you disagree with, Nik?

I think both are great SG's, but lousy PG's.

 

[RR7]

Overreact how? You called out my post count as if because I don't post often here, it obviously shows my lack of knowledge, or my inability to make a generalization. I don't see an overreaction, or an attempt to be witty. What was your mentioning my post count an attempt at? To show superiority because of your higher post count? Please help me understand what I need to do to make the genaralizations I have made, without getting called out for my noobness.

 

[graybeard]

Jebus dude... do you always overreact like this? Was this witty?

STOMP

Hey Stomp, why don't you stomp on the new guy for having a different opinion than you? Talk about overreacting.- I happen to think he is right on with his assessment.

 

[Da_O]

What part do you disagree with, Nik?

I think both are great SG's, but lousy PG's.

Oh NOES!

Roy is a SG and shouldn't asked to be a PG. For a SG he has great court awareness and makes heady plays. The jury is still out on Bayless. I don't think we'll ever have that true PG that everyone wants. If you look at the Celtics or Lakers it isn't needed either.

 

[STOMP]

I think it is a good point about fans giving lots of love to rookies. I don't know about other boards, but Blazer fans love the draft picks (I think most teams do)

I loved the last 3 drafts. Each time they took guys I wanted and reshaped the roster in ways I thought made sense. This class of Blazer rookies (Rudy Greg Nicolas Jarryd) is off the charts and will probably be remembered as such. But I can also recall posters voicing doubts about all 4 of these guys in the past few months.

The 2005 and 2004 drafts I voiced my doubts and publicly crossed my fingers that I'd be proven wrong... but I sure as heck wasn't concealing my views and don't think there is any shortage of others who'll offer a thumbs down when they don't like the club's moves. Many posters back the Blazer decisions no matter what, but certainly not all. Maybe it seems that way as things have been rolling since KP took over but the Telfair is a budding superstar nonsense wasn't that long ago. There are few subjects that we all agree on here and it seems that there is heated discussions on just about everything.

STOMP

 

[Da_O]

Overreact how? You called out my post count as if because I don't post often here, it obviously shows my lack of knowledge, or my inability to make a generalization. I don't see an overreaction, or an attempt to be witty. What was your mentioning my post count an attempt at? To show superiority because of your higher post count? Please help me understand what I need to do to make the genaralizations I have made, without getting called out for my noobness.

Don't worry STOMP is a rube, so don't mind him.

 

[STOMP]

Overreact how? You called out my post count as if because I don't post often here, it obviously shows my lack of knowledge, or my inability to make a generalization. I don't see an overreaction, or an attempt to be witty. What was your mentioning my post count an attempt at? To show superiority because of your higher post count? Please help me understand what I need to do to make the genaralizations I have made, without getting called out for my noobness.

I was politely referring to what an ass you're being saying that (essentially) we're all a bunch of sheep here. Being new, I was giving you a heads up that it's not like that. It was anything but an act of superiority. Reread my initial response to you and drop the defensiveness

STOMP

 

[RR7]

Politely saying I was an ass? Get off your fucking high horse and give me a break. If you can't understand a generic generalization, and take it instead as including everyone as sheep, then that's on you, as it seems a few others in this thread were actually able to understand what i was saying, instead of taking each word literally.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

If all this talk about praising Blazers and being unrealistic about their value is generated because of Batum . . . well then paint me red and call me homer, because I'm on the Batum bandwagon.

What's there not be excited about when it comes to Batum. Last year, KP talked about the need for a defensive stopper at the SF postion. This team is full of scorers and needs role players. Batum is 19 years old, incredible wing span, good instincts and grasp of the game at his age and he accepts his role. If he keeps developing, we have found our Bruce Bowen . . . no way you trade him just to get a more established guy, Batum could potentially fit at SF with Roy, LA and Oden for years to come.

Is this an example of Blazer psoters being unrealistic? Maybe. I would like to think I'm not that blind and have been critical of other rookies (remember my Telfair rants since first year that Blazers were influneced by the hype . . . or Webster was a popular but wrong choice rants). . . maybe Batum is the real deal and some of us are on to it before it becomes a matter of fact.

 

[PapaG]

I think it is a good point about fans giving lots of love to rookies. I don't know about other boards, but Blazer fans love the draft picks (I think most teams do)

But that is where I think the buck stops. Ask fans about Webster or Sergio or Telfair in their first year and now and you will get a lot different responses. Start a thread about Blake and see how posters call him ordinary plain vanilla type player.

I think that dynamic is saved for the rookies . . . and let me just break this rookie trend and repeat what i have been saying since summer league . . . Bayless is not a PG and he does not fit in with this team because Blazers have more than their share of scoring SGs in Roy and Rudy.

I simply just have to revisit the Monia/Khryapa threads. It got the point where posters were calling for KP to be fired for trading Khryapa to Chicago for the rights to LMA.

I think everyone overvalues their team's rookie players. The difference is that in Portland, fans generally seem to latch on to draft picks immediately and let that cloud their opinion of them through the years.

 

[STOMP]

Politely saying I was an ass? .

just reading what you wrote and calling it like I see it... just like we do with the rookies

STOMP

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I simply just have to revisit the Monia/Khryapa threads. It got the point where posters were calling for KP to be fired for trading Khryapa to Chicago for the rights to LMA.

I think everyone overvalues their team's rookie players. The difference is that in Portland, fans generally seem to latch on to draft picks immediately and let that cloud their opinion of them through the years.

exactly.

I like Batum a lot myself, but if an offer of Gerald Wallace is there I'm going to have to think about it. Not go, no way! Batum is better!

 

[graybeard]

If all this talk about praising Blazers and being unrealistic about their value is generated because of Batum . . . well then paint me red and call me homer, because I'm on the Batum bandwagon.

What's there not be excited about when it comes to Batum. Last year, KP talked about the need for a defensive stopper at the SF postion. This team is full of scorers and needs role players. Batum is 19 years old, incredible wing span, good instincts and grasp of the game at his age and he accepts his role. If he keeps developing, we have found our Bruce Bowen . . . no way you trade him just to get a more established guy, Batum could potentially fit at SF with Roy, LA and Oden for years to come.

Is this an example of Blazer psoters being unrealistic? Maybe. I would like to think I'm not that blind and have been critical of other rookies (remember my Telfair rants since first year that Blazers were influneced by the hype . . . or Webster was a popular but wrong choice rants). . . maybe Batum is the real deal and some of us are on to it before it becomes a matter of fact.

This thread was titled about Conley, not Batum. I started a thread about trading Bayless for Conley a few days ago and all the comments were about what a terrible trade it would be because supposedly Bayless is so much better. Homerism at it's finest.

 

[Natebishop3]

The difference is that in Portland, fans generally seem to latch on to draft picks immediately and let that cloud their opinion of them through the years.

What are you talking about... Erik Barkley is awesome and I still maintain that he could be an All-Star!!!

 

[MARIS61]

I simply just have to revisit the Monia/Khryapa threads. It got the point where posters were calling for KP to be fired for trading Khryapa to Chicago for the rights to LMA.

I think everyone overvalues their team's rookie players. The difference is that in Portland, fans generally seem to latch on to draft picks immediately and let that cloud their opinion of them through the years.

Whatever.

BRING BACK HA!

 

[ehizzy3]

whatever.

bring back ha!

co-sign

 

[Masbee]

My problem with this, or rather, with fans discussing it is, if Conley was on our team, he would be a great prospect, the next...whoever. But since he is on another team, every flaw seems to be picked out. Now, I am fine with picking out flaws in a players game we might be looking to obtain, but after 15 games, we have Batum as the next Pippen, and Conley is never going to amount to anything, it would seem. I think a portion of that, as well, is not watching him, but rather looking specifically at stats. Again, if that was used for our players, the numbers for guys like Batum, Sergio, etc. might look pretty poor. And there are stretches where they make mistakes. But since we see them, we can see the flashes that make them look good.

Much the same way most Blazer fans seemed to mock Laker fans last year for hyping Bynum for putting up 13-10-2.5, with flashes of greatness in different games that they saw. Fast forward, and we see flashes of greatness in Greg, but if we went just off of #s, it would be easy to criticize what he has done so far. Not sure specifically what I am trying to get at, but in general am, for one, always amazed at the quick dismissal of other players by our fans, and then the general insistence that our young guys can easily to develop to X, while another team's players will never achieve that sort of ability.

This season so far:

Batum PER: 17.9
Sergio PER: 13.4

Conley PER: 11.8

Since the pace and minutes adjusted stats show that Batum is dramatically outplaying Conley, and making a modest contribution to a winning team, I hardly think Blazer fans in general are out of line to (so far) be excited about Batum and confused - at best - about Conley.

I guess I don't see the support for your contention that Blazer fans are myopic, and if they looked at the numbers they would see that Batum's don't really stack up either (like Conley).

The facts show that Batum's numbers are excellent for a rookie and far better than Conleys. Giving support to Blazer fans who don't pay much attention to stats, who are pimping Batum and dissing Conley.

 

[andalusian]

This thread was titled about Conley, not Batum. I started a thread about trading Bayless for Conley a few days ago and all the comments were about what a terrible trade it would be because supposedly Bayless is so much better. Homerism at it's finest.

Homerism?

Conley is a supreme athlete. So is Bayless. Draw there.
Conley is supposed to be a great perimeter defender. So is Bayless. Draw there - but Bayless has additional height and size to help him - so it will be harder for bigger guards to post him and shoot over him.
Conley is a bad shooter/scorer. Bayless was a scoring machine in high-school and college - advantage Bayless.
Conley is a better assist man than Bayless - advantage Conley - but not one that is important in Portland playing next to Roy.

Overall - with Conley not distinguishing himself so far in the league - I really do not think there is much of a homerism about the idea that a Conley for Bayless trade is not one that would favor Portland.

Bayless can catch and shoot (an important talent playing next to Roy), Conley can not. Bayless seems like a much better fit for Portland.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I love the thought of having a quick PG but have to admit I'm pretty happy with our guard rotation this year. If we need scoring Blakes in if we need to speed up the game and get some easy opportunities we put Sergio in. The odd guy out is Bayless who may be a nice blend of both and a better defender unfortunately/fortunately the other two are playing so well that he hasn't gotten any playing time. I really think Bayless is the best fit to play with Roy just not sure how he's going to ever get any PT.

 

[ehizzy3]

I love the thought of having a quick PG but have to admit I'm pretty happy with our guard rotation this year. If we need scoring Blakes in if we need to speed up the game and get some easy opportunities we put Sergio in. The odd guy out is Bayless who may be a nice blend of both and a better defender unfortunately/fortunately the other two are playing so well that he hasn't gotten any playing time. I really think Bayless is the best fit to play with Roy just not sure how he's going to ever get any PT.

bayless was one of the quickest and fastest players in ncaa last year

 

[graybeard]

Homerism?

Conley is a supreme athlete. So is Bayless. Draw there.
Conley is supposed to be a great perimeter defender. So is Bayless. Draw there - but Bayless has additional height and size to help him - so it will be harder for bigger guards to post him and shoot over him.
Conley is a bad shooter/scorer. Bayless was a scoring machine in high-school and college - advantage Bayless.
Conley is a better assist man than Bayless - advantage Conley - but not one that is important in Portland playing next to Roy.

Overall - with Conley not distinguishing himself so far in the league - I really do not think there is much of a homerism about the idea that a Conley for Bayless trade is not one that would favor Portland.

Bayless can catch and shoot (an important talent playing next to Roy), Conley can not. Bayless seems like a much better fit for Portland.

Ah I see, and what makes you think that Bayless is going to be able to score at the NBA level, his summer league mvp trophy for playing against scrubs? Bayless is so good he has barely gotten garbage time this year, and when he did, he was pounding the ball on the floor and running around with a deer in the headlights look on his face. Bayless has had the benefit of some of the best developmental NBA coaches around, Conley has had what I consider poor coaching in Memphis. Note: I realize that Bayless's competition for pg is NBA mvp Steve Blake who has won multiple scoring titles, and acknowledge how virtually impossible it is to get playing time in his presence.
Conley took his NCAA team to the finals, Bayless took his team where? Sure, you'll say it was because Conley had Oden, but did you notice during that finals game who was keeping Ohio St. in the game while Oden was on the bench?
Bayless is so good that he was the 6th guard taken in his draft class, Conley was first in his. I realize that you probably are a better talent evaluator that the nba scouts and GM's, but it wouldn't be that lopsided of a trade.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Nice. One of the most sarcastic and polite posts since I signed off last night. Well done, Mr. GrayBeard!