Kramer's Racist Comments..

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<div class="quote_poster">Mag Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
What do you say to offend a white person racially? White Trash, or Cracker. To say it's not offensive is off-base and contradicting. And if any of the "South Asians" (Indians, Pakis, etc.) are truly offended when someone generalizes them with India/Pakistan, you are insane. That's a COMMON mistake. Now if someone were to call me a terrorist or something, that's different, but don't bring up the "Oh, I am Pakistani and he called me Indian OHMYGOD." That's complete crap, correct them and tell them why that's important and get over it.
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Are you kidding me? I don't take offense when people ask me if I'm Pakistani, I take offense when brown people are referred to as "f-ing Pakis" or "yo Paki, stfu and go eat your curry". And if you think calling someone the n-word is any different from black guys or white guys calling random brown people Pakis, you yourself are insane. IT'S THE SAME CONCEPT. My point of view is that you guys are making it seem like racism is MUCH MORE than racism when it involves black people. Racism is not a problem that only exists for black people, it exists for every race. The solution is not making it a bigger problem for just black people, but recognizing that to control it, you have to control being racist towards other races as well.

In all honesty, do you really think the n-word is going to stop being said by non-blacks as long as blacks keep saying it themselves? I know enough people that refer to each other as the n-word even though they're not black. If the word is still circulating among black people, it will continue to exist. As for the n-word being the reflection of slavery, and other races not understanding it's meaning...why would you want to keep the word around then, if the word in itself derives from another race's hate towards you?

The tone of how someone says something determines whether they are being blatantly racist or not. Michael Richards was. If someone said to me, "hey, Are you from Pakistan?" obviously I'm not going to care, but if someone says to me "you f-ing Paki, go eat your curry" obviously I'm going to care.

Edit: My bad if my post makes it seems like I'm offended by anything you said Mag. I'm not, just opposing what you said.
 
Two different issues here, everybody.

Everyone here can agree that Richards was in the wrong with his tirade. It wasn't part of his comedy act, it was a poor, tasteless response to criticism, and it's horribly offensive. No one can disagree with that.

The issue that has everyone arguing (and that really isn't related to this story) is whether black comedians are justified in using the word cra**er. Clearly they aren't. There is a social taboo against the use of the n-word by non-blacks, and rightfully so. But, if African-Americans decide to use similar racially-driven insults towards other ethnicities, they are not only challenging that taboo, they are flaunting they're supposed immunity from racial epithets in mainstream culture.

I've seen a few people argue over which term is worse than which. It's a pointless debate. You can spend hours trying to prove how certain terms carry more emotional and historical baggage than others, but in the end, all of them serve the same purpose. They offend and mock a person for something they cannot control and should be discouraged.

Anyways, as I said before, that's a completely different issue from this Richards incident. He got heckled, couldn't handle it or creatively respond to it, and decided to unleash an absolutely disgusting rant that was embarrassing for everyone. I'm sure it wasn't only African-Americans that were offended by that. I'm not black, and I couldn't stand listening to it.


WARNING:
I'm seeing a lot of emotion in this thread. Let's try to keep emotions controlled in here and remember that, even if we all have different views on racial insults, everyone in this thread has settled on the common ground of denouncing Richards' comments. If I continue to see too much swearing (even if censored) or personal attacks, I will be forced to shut this thread down.
 
Whoa, wait, wtf?

I'm sorry to ask this guys, but I have no sound on my computer right now, what prompted this, and what all was said? I can see Kramer freaking out, but what'd the dude say to bring that on?
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Kramer's my boy, this is sad as hell to see him lose it like that. .
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The video offers a caption of everything that's being said. Just click the link (if you haven't already) and you can read everything he says.

Edit: I would honestly be afraid if I was Michael Richards and this tape spreads (which it probably will). Can you imagine being him...now every black person he sees who's seen the tape will want to say something to up, or maybe even start something based on how racist he acted. He'll have a REALLY hard time shedding this image of him now. Just like the "Kramer" image has been impossible to shed for him, his tirade will not be soon forgotten, no matter how much he apologizes.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">

I've seen a few people argue over which term is worse than which. It's a pointless debate. You can spend hours trying to prove how certain terms carry more emotional and historical baggage than others, but in the end, all of them serve the same purpose. They offend and mock a person for something they cannot control and should be discouraged.

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there is no word like the n word in america, there is no point of contention. to know this reality is to have an appreciation for american history. i would love to sit and debate but i have to go now and watch the raps get murdered by the polygamists.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm sorry to ask this guys, but I have no sound on my computer right now, what prompted this, and what all was said? I can see Kramer freaking out, but what'd the dude say to bring that on? </div>
He said he wasn't funny and his act sucked, I think. Typical heckler.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">there is no word like the n word in america, there is no point of contention. to know this reality is to have an appreciation for american history. i would love to sit and debate but i have to go now and watch the raps get murdered by the polygamists.</div>
I never said they were all equal in historical significance, etc. What I said is, on the subject of what is more offensive or should be more restricted, that history shouldn't make a difference. The end result is the same. They offend.

And I will be shortly leaving to see the same thing. Just wanted to make sure this thread doesn't turn into an online riot. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Bosh make a post-game Kramer-eque rant about Europeans.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Air Fresh Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No I'm brown.

Everyone gives that explanation because it makes sense. How else would you explain it?

I don't need a clue. Calling a black person when your a black person the N word, is just another word for brotha. It's slang, have you ever said "man MJ is a sick basketball player" you don't mean Mike is in bad health, you mean he is good. When a black person calls a black person the N word he isn't calling him a slave, he callin him a friend ect, of course when the term is not used deragtory fashion.
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Neither Black people or other races should be saying it. When you say the word, remember all those people being hung from those trees. Remember those blacks in the South being sprayed with hoses and dogs attacking them. Remember MLK and other leaders walking to make a change NOT be called a n*gga.
 
Wow, talk about losing your s***. His career is over
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I think that this is an interesting issue being discussed here. I've often wondered about the differences in what black and white commedians say, and I've debated it with friends. It seems that black comedians, at least the ones I've seen, have <u>far</u> more race jokes than comedians of other races. However, often times I've noticed black people reacting to race being brought up or especially derogatory words far more seriously and aggresively than other races.

To me, it's just the same as when you're ribbing your friends. If you dish it out, you've got to take it. I am by no means defending Kramer's actions, because he quite obviously went off the deep end. It's just interesting to see how this argument has escalated over the usage of these words.
 
I just want to comment (for the 4th time) on the word n*igga/n*igger and how others are not allowed to use it but blacks accept it amongst each other..

If white CAN'T use it, and call you the same thing, you defeat the purpose of trying to say some other stuff like "friend"..
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
there is no word like the n word in america, there is no point of contention. to know this reality is to have an appreciation for american history.
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Despite the history of the word, it is, in it's basic context, a racist word. Therefore, how is it any different than calling someone a terrorist, cracker, etc?

My arguement, stated in much better words:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said they were all equal in historical significance, etc. What I said is, on the subject of what is more offensive or should be more restricted, that history shouldn't make a difference. The end result is the same. They offend. </div>
 
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">there is no word like the n word in america, there is no point of contention. to know this reality is to have an appreciation for american history. i would love to sit and debate but i have to go now and watch the raps get murdered by the polygamists.</div>

There is no difference between the impact of the words "******" and "cracker". Its how people react to them. Whites, in general, don't give a **** when they are called names, I'm white and I'm rarely, if ever, offended by words. As long as black people keep reacting to "******" with a ton of outrage the word will continue to be used to offend them, if they stop reacting the word has no more negative power but instead they flip out and cry racism every time a non-black uses the word (this is all just a generalization, not all blacks or whites are like this).
 
while I believe saying both words are wrong...i disagree with the impact on both words BJM. I'd like to reititerate what a stated a page back:

"When you say the word, remember all those people being hung from those trees. Remember those blacks in the South being sprayed with hoses and dogs attacking them. Remember MLK and other leaders walking to make a change NOT be called a n*gga."

....it's not so much the word, but the history behind it.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There is no difference between the impact of the words "******" and "cracker". Its how people react to them. Whites, in general, don't give a **** when they are called names, I'm white and I'm rarely, if ever, offended by words. As long as black people keep reacting to "******" with a ton of outrage the word will continue to be used to offend them, if they stop reacting the word has no more negative power but instead they flip out and cry racism every time a non-black uses the word (this is all just a generalization, not all blacks or whites are like this).</div>

This is a legit point. And yes, I've very rarely seen a white person get mad over someone calling them a cracker. They usually just laugh it off. Hell, for all the crap the white race had done to other races, we're getting off easy if cracker is the worst thing we ever have to endure.

What's funny at least in my experience is that I've had black people use the n word against me more often than I've been called a cracker. Almost always joking, but at least twice a black guy was pissed off and called me something along the lines of "you dumb-ass *****". I just thought it was funny both times, so
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<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There is no difference between the impact of the words "******" and "cracker". Its how people react to them. Whites, in general, don't give a **** when they are called names, I'm white and I'm rarely, if ever, offended by words. As long as black people keep reacting to "******" with a ton of outrage the word will continue to be used to offend them, if they stop reacting the word has no more negative power but instead they flip out and cry racism every time a non-black uses the word (this is all just a generalization, not all blacks or whites are like this).</div>

what? i'm not going to respond anymore to this thread cause frankly most u don't know what your talking about. fyi- the word is empowered by history not the reactions to it.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There is no difference between the impact of the words "******" and "cracker". </div>

If you think the impact and history of those 2 words are even similar, then you need to get yourself checked into an American History class ASAP. Don't be ignorant.

<div class="quote_poster">I-Miss-MJ Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe I missed the history class where it said that black people, and only black people were the ones persecuted against. Because I am quite certain white people have been slung up a tree by non-white people at certain points in time. Or that white people have been slaves to non whites.</div>

Find me a link that says white people were lynched, enslaved, and denied the rights of human beings for hundreds of years, and you may have a point.

I do, however, think black people should stop using the word so damn much if they find it so offensive, like I do. And I do somewhat agree that black comedians can mock white people and it's funny, but if a white person mocks black people..... the **** hits the fan. Although you see it more often nowadays, and if done in good humor, people will laugh and not find it offensive.

You have to realize when it's in good humor or not. I think racist people are the SCUM of society, and I hate them more than anyone. But people need to lighten up.

Michael Richard's comments however, were blatantly racist. As a huge Seinfeld fan I was quite shocked. He later apologized saying he isn't racist and just had an outburst but I don't buy it. I would NEVER react that way in any situation.

<div class="quote_poster">Karma Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My arguement, stated in much better words:

I never said they were all equal in historical significance, etc. What I said is, on the subject of what is more offensive or should be more restricted, that history shouldn't make a difference. The end result is the same. They offend.</div>

The words fat and poopie head also offend. Some words offend more than others, don't be stupid.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> what we're saying is that its moronic that Black people are basically allowed to make fun of White people and White culture, but when White people make fun of Black people and Black culture, its deemed racist. You're basically telling us Black people have a license to be racist.</div>
Don't know where you got this from, considering it has nothing to do with the topic.

Who said anything about white people not being aloud to poke fun at black people? If you have ever watched BET Comicview, everyonce in a while they'll have white dudes on there who make tasteful jokes about black people, in front of a predominately black croud, and the black people laugh.

Black people have a license to be racist? I seriously would like to know where you are pulling this stuff from!? I'm not sure if you misinterpruted someones comments or what.

Also Saying the N word doesn't make you a racist, but saying: "50 years ago we'd have you hanging upside down with a fork up your ass" I can't see how a non racist person would ever say that.
 
<div class="quote_poster">deception Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">what? i'm not going to respond anymore to this thread cause frankly most u don't know what your talking about. fyi- the word is empowered by history not the reactions to it.</div>

Really, you need to just give it up now, your argument doesnt even make any sense.
 
I'm not about to jump into the whole debate about the use of the 'n-word,' because no matter what I said, no matter how neutral, it'd piss someone off.

I do want to point out though, that Michael Richards wasn't making a joke. He was obviously filled with rage when he was responding to them, and there weren't any comedic overtones whatsoever. It was racism no matter how you want to view the 'n-word.'

This really saddens me though. I'm a huge Seinfeld fan, especially of Kramer. He was so happy-go-lucky, and well, just plain goofy and innocent. This completely shatters my image of him, and it's horrible timing with the new Seinfeld DVD's coming out this month. I was going to buy them, but I don't know if I'll be able to watch the show the same anymore.
 
Richards has never been funny as a stand up. His comment was just dumb....even if you were a member of the KKK there was no actual humour in that, just retarded name calling. I'm glad everyone left. The N word is alot worse then cracker....but we shouldn't be developing a rating system.

BTW, I am a student and I also work at The Beer Store and last week a brown (i'll say brown because I dont know if he was from India or Pakistan on another country for that matter) told a black man to "chill out N*****" after he accidently cut him off in the parking lot. The black guy almost hit the roof...I had to pull him off the brown guy. He had every right to be upset, but then he went and said something that made him look just as stupid and even more ignorant...He said, "don't call me a n*****, you're a brown piece of s***." You just end up being just as dumb and ignorant.
BTW, WHAT THE HELL WAS RICHARDS THINKING?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">but we shouldn't be developing a rating system.</div>
Well said.
 
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this is kinda funny and might lighten the mood
 
The part where he trashtalks the stranger in the street and then hides behind the door seems to make more sense now.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you ever watch something like this the same?

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Actually, that was really funny. Just because he makes some racists comments now (I'm not trying to downplay this part), doesn't mean that the brilliant stuff he did over 10 years ago as Kramer loses any "funnyness".
 
His half-assed apology (reminded me of Mel Gibson):

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Man, was that the wrong place to apologize or what? And Seinfield's unconditional support kind of bothered me too.
 
Tried to Ju-Jitsu that?

As for Seinfelds support, of course he will, they are friends and he wouldn't go on saying he would not support him.

btw why does he say Afro Americans?
 
As opposed to call them n***ers again?

Of course he will never be able to rectify what he did, but at least he is doing what he can do, which is to appologise, and maybe he also needs to go to a psychotherapist or something, to get to the root of the problem that he obviously has.
 
I don't buy his story. He wasen't in a rage. HE was trying to be funny...it was just a very bad decision. You can clearly see he was trying to be funny; "You see, this offends you.....Is this too much for you.....You see what happens when you interrupt the white man?" Thats not rage and not comedy either.
 
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