LA=All-Star?

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MickZagger said:
He was on pace for a game like the he played against the Warriors. He's pleasantly surprising me lately.
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So quick to judge son. Give the guy some props every now and then.
 
Even though he only had 7 rebounds, this was one of his best games ever. He was a bonafide All Star go to guy in the second half. No pick and pops. We threw the ball into him on almost every play and he was able to handle it, passing out of it when needed and scoring when needed and he did it in Utah where we have now only won 15 times EVER in regular season play. This was the third best game I've ever been to. Great fucking win. And we needed it cuz Houston won today.
 
KingSpeed said:
Great fucking win. And we needed it cuz Houston won today.
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if you are obsessed enough to be comparing records for playoff implications this early in the season i wouldn't bother following the rockets. 12-5 in the last 5 weeks and 8-2 in their last 10 games. with multiple teams ahead of them struggling big time they are pretty much a lock at this point. it's more likely they get home court in the first round than miss the playoffs.
 
crowTrobot said:
if you are obsessed enough to be comparing records for playoff implications this early in the season i wouldn't bother following the rockets. 12-5 in the last 5 weeks and 8-2 in their last 10 games. with multiple teams ahead of them struggling big time they are pretty much a lock at this point. it's more likely they get home court in the first round than miss the playoffs.
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Umm no. They won't be top 4. Sure, they're playing better (by the way, we're 8-4 in the last 12 games) but they are led by Kevin Martin who doesn't know a thing about leading a winning basketball team to the playoffs. They will cool off. The games we play against them are of gigantic importance. I believe the first one is this weekend.
 
MickZagger said:
Well, the great play by LMA was fun while it lasted...
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If you're not going to enjoy this stretch by LMA, it's pretty obvious what your lasting opinion on him is always going to be.

Maybe if he started giving up 25 ppg consistently like Kevin Love, but be a stat beast on an 8 win team, you'd wub him?
 
Here is the thing I have noticed. I saw 2 interviews last night with Aldridge, one after the game with the Blazer crew, one with NBATV. It appears to me that Aldridge mindset appears to finally be changing, and Roy going out again, may have been what set it off. He mentioned in both interviews his focus on post play, getting rebounds. A year ago he would have been defensive, and said he was doing his job if he didn't get rebounds. Now he appears to be embracing the role, and I think that one reason he is embracing it, is he is recognizing that he is also getting a lot more recognition when he plays in the paint. Yep it hurts a lot more to play in the paint. But it is worth it. In that respect alone, perhaps the Roy injury is a blessing, because I am not sure if it would have ever came to fruition without it. It is a small sample size for games. But I like what I have been seeing out of Aldridge, this is more of what I expected when we got him in the first place.
 
hasoos said:
Here is the thing I have noticed. I saw 2 interviews last night with Aldridge, one after the game with the Blazer crew, one with NBATV. It appears to me that Aldridge mindset appears to finally be changing
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And it's not just what he's saying... He sounds like a different person of late. As for his play, I can't believe how fluid and controlled he's become in the post. He always had the tools, but never seemed comfortable down low. I always felt Aldridge was the more important player than Roy long-term, but until this recent stretch I was starting to question if I had given him too much credit.
 
I found out the reason for his great play recently............. he just got some dope new headphones! There woodgrain and gold......EarCandy!
 
STOMP said:
Love's Wolves are on pace to win 16 games this season...

STOMP
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After winning their last two games, the Wolves are now on pace to win 20 - 21 games. They are young and should improve over the course of the season. They don't have the talent to contend for the play-offs (not even close), but they should win about 10 more games this season than last - and the improved play of Kevin Love is the biggest reason. And before you scoff at a measely 10 game improvment (assuming my prediction is true), remember they only won 15 games last year, so an additional 10 wins is a significant improvement.

BNM
 
handiman said:
And it's not just what he's saying... He sounds like a different person of late. As for his play, I can't believe how fluid and controlled he's become in the post. He always had the tools, but never seemed comfortable down low. I always felt Aldridge was the more important player than Roy long-term, but until this recent stretch I was starting to question if I had given him too much credit.
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The only frustration I had with LMA in the past is when he was attacking the basket and he seemed to just "flick" the ball towards the basket. I am sure it was more "controlled" than it looked, but it seldom went in. It seemed to always roll off the rim. Now his little runners seem to be easier for him. Like he is actually guiding it into the basket. I always thought this was his big weakness. If he continue to master that shot he will be very tough to stop since he already has mastered the tougher shots. (The turn abound j, and the outside J.) He just needed that little "runner" to keep the D honest.

Also he used to tire in the 4th because he played so many minutes. He is in really good shape right now.
 
HCP said:
I found out the reason for his great play recently............. he just got some dope new headphones! There woodgrain and gold......EarCandy!
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I figured it must be something like that. I mean it's almost a no-brainer when you think about it.
 
STOMP said:
the point is it's very rare for a player to be rewarded with an AS appearance when they play for the dregs of the league. And when a Big completely sucks on defense like Love does, coaches notice & correlate the player's weakness with the team's losing. Win the war in paint and you generally win the game... Kevin Love waves a white flag on post D. Coaches who might vote for him are the same guys exploiting him when their team faces the Wolves. There are many stats that demonstrate just how horrible they are including point differential where they are 2nd worst in the league to Cleveland... this means that Wolves games feature ample garbage time night after night.

As the old truism goes, offense puts butts in seats, defense wins games/championships... coaches generally place value on the later (wins & D) in their jobs and their AS votes

STOMP
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The old truism is defense and rebounding wins games/championships.

Coaches also know the value of rebounding. Rebounds mean possessions and more possessions means more wins. Kevin Love is currently on pace to have the highest TRB% of anyone not named Dennis Rodman since they started keeping that stat exactly 40 seasons ago. Yes, Love's opponents score almost as much as he does (he scores 1.3 more PTS/48 than his power forward counterparts), but he out rebounds them by greater than 2:1 (21.3 RB/48 vs. 10.0 RB/48).

Blaming Love's poor defense for the Wolves losing is a bit like blaming the chef for the Titanic sinking. Go to 82games.com and look at some of the advanced stats. The first thing you will notice is that Love is the only Minnesota starter that out produces his opponent and he does so by a huge margin (+10.4). He is also the only Minnesota starter with a positive Simple Rating (+7.6). Every other Minnesota starter gets out produced and out scored by their opponent.

Minnesota Starters (at their primary positions):

Center - Milicic
PER = 12.7
Opponent's PER = 18.2
Net PER = -5.5

PF - Love
PER = 22.3
Opponent's PER = 15.2
Net PER = +7.1

SF - Beasley
PER = 12.5
Opponent's PER = 22.8
Net PER = -10.3

SG - Johnson
PER = 10.0
Opponent's PER = 15.0
Net PER = -5.0

PG - Ridnour
PER = 15.8
Opponent's PER = 17.2
Net PER = -1.4

Notice anything? Love has a huge + Net PER, while all of his fellow Minnesota starters have Net - PERs, in some cases very large negative PERs. Love's teammates flat out suck. Yeah, they only may win 20 something games this season, but that roster without Love would be lucky to win half that many.

And yes, I know PER is largely an offensive stat, but by including Opponent's PER, that also would highlight a player's inability to defend his position (like Beasley's horrific inability to guard NBA starting small forwards). Love's opponents have a PER of 15.2, about average for an NBA starter, and way below Love's own PER. Bash him all you want, but he's by far the best player on that crappy team, and he out works and out produces his opponents by a large margin on a nightly basis.

Will he make the all-star team? Who knows. He's got a shot, but there are a lot of great power forwards in the west having great seasons, many of them on very good teams. It will come down to who is healthy at the all-star break and of Duncan is considered a center or power forward.

BNM
 
It could also be a symptom of Rambis sticking Beasley on any player who blows past Love more than twice. LMA was making Love look like a YMCA reject in the first quarter.
 
love, millsap, scola, green all deserve all star before la.

hell okcs 3rd best player is better then our first. thats how bad things are.
 
MIXUM said:
love, millsap, scola, green all deserve all star before la.

hell okcs 3rd best player is better then our first. thats how bad things are.
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Man, you sure are a *guy*.

There, I pre-edited it for the mods.
 
Boob-No-More said:
The old truism is defense and rebounding wins games/championships.
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no sorry. The common old truism is defense wins championships. Check the google link below and you won't find anything inserting rebounding into the mix

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&...1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=83f87efc6f926f13

rebounding is commonly considered to be a part of defense. This is reflected in the way stats are divided with boards almost always thrown in with steals & blocks. Of course everyone places some value on rebounding the basketball for all the obvious reasons, but it's not so important that it overshadows the value of everything else. If a player is reduced to boxing out his man when they're posting up he may get a lot of boards but that doesn't mean his defense is good. I see Love and Zach do this a lot the results of which we see in their stats and team records. As BlazerCaravan alluded, the Wolves often try to hide Love on D on the lessor frontline scorers like the Blazers used to do with Zach. Beasley and Darko aren't shutdown defenders by any means, but KL is even worse.

Will he make the all-star team? Who knows. He's got a shot, but there are a lot of great power forwards in the west having great seasons, many of them on very good teams. It will come down to who is healthy at the all-star break and of Duncan is considered a center or power forward.
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to have a good shot at making the AS game LA will not only need to stay on a personal upswing, but he'll also have to lead his team to a higher winning % then they've seen thus far... without injuries to others getting him there by default 500 probably isn't going to cut it. I'd guess (like Love) he doesn't go.

STOMP
 
Pinwheel1 said:
The only frustration I had with LMA in the past is when he was attacking the basket and he seemed to just "flick" the ball towards the basket. I am sure it was more "controlled" than it looked, but it seldom went in.
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My sentiments exactly. It reminded me of old Sabonis when his legs were just about done, looking like he was on stilts trying to go across the middle of the key. Tough to put up a controlled shot when you don't have your legs under you. For whatever reason, Aldridge suddenly looks like he has figured that out.
 
MIXUM said:
love, millsap, scola, green all deserve all star before la.

hell okcs 3rd best player is better then our first. thats how bad things are.
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Wrong. Millsap was eaten up by LA last night, as was Love and Green has done nothing this season. Your contrarian gig doesn't work with such bad examples.
 
PapaG said:
If you're not going to enjoy this stretch by LMA, it's pretty obvious what your lasting opinion on him is always going to be.

Maybe if he started giving up 25 ppg consistently like Kevin Love, but be a stat beast on an 8 win team, you'd wub him?
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4 years to me is more meaningful than 4, or 5 games. I need to see more of it before I give Aldridge bonafide props. I'm impressed right now.
 
Let's talk GameScore - it's a measure of impcat play that takes into account all the major stats, not just points. But like points, a 10 GmSc is like a 10 point game, and a 40 GmSc is like a 40-point game.

So, LA's GmSc exploits:
Last season, LA had a GmSc of 22+ 5 times (6.4%).
This season, LA has had a GmSc of 22+ 4 times (12.9%).
In December, LA has has a GmSc of 22+ 4 times (out of 14 games = 28.5%)

And Roy's from 2008-09 for comparsion:
23 games of 22+ GmSc (29.4%)

Small sample size, I know, but... In December, LMA has played roughly as well as Roy did in 2008-09, which is pretty remarkable when you think about it. Also of note; Roy only had one game better than LMA's best game this season: his 52-point Phoenix game (GmSc 44.1). LMA's two best games this year are both better than Roy's second best effort of that season, as well.
 
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BlazerCaravan said:
It could also be a symptom of Rambis sticking Beasley on any player who blows past Love more than twice.
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Nope. The numbers I listed were specifically when Beasley was guarding opposing small forwards - not the kind of players Love would be guarding.

If you look at Beasley's numbers guarding power forwards, they get much better. Beasley is a classic 3/4 tweener. He has the offensive game of a 3, but can't come close to guarding opposing small forwards. He's the one getting abused on defense, not Love.

By the same token, Love's numbers as a 5 look even better than his numbers as a 4. And, due to a lack of decent big men (especially when Darko was out recently - and he's really their only halfway decent big other than Love), Minnesota goes with a small line-up a lot that features Love at center, Beasley at the 4, Brewer at the 3, Johnson at the 2 and Ridnour/Telfair at the 1.

I used their primary positions, as that's where they start and play the majority of their minutes, but if you look at Beasley as a 4 and Love as a 5 - he plays 22% of his team's total center minutes (about 10.5 MPG at the 5 and 24.5 MPG at the 4) you get:

Center - Love
PER = 31.1
Opponent's PER = 13.2
Net PER = +17.8

SF - Beasley
PER = 21.7
Opponent's PER = 17.4
Net PER = +4.3

As might be extected, Love's rebounding differential against opposing centers goes down a little (from +11.3 REB/48 to +9.1 REB/4), but is still overwhelimingly positive. What's really amazing is how well he scores against opposing centers:

Center - Love
PTS/48 = 33.7
Opponent's PTS/48 = 19.4
Net PTS/48 = +14.3

With both Love and Beasley posting better numbers when playing up one position, you wonder why Minnesota doesn't go with the small line-up more. The problem is they have a lack of quality SGs and SFs (outside of Beasley). Brewer is a decent defender (way better than Beasley at guarding 3s), but horrible on offense. The rookie Johnson just isn't that good at anything right now (PER of 10.0). This is where the return of Martell Webster could actually help them. They can play Marty at the 3 when they go small. He's a proven defender at that position, and while he's inconsistent, he's a better offensive player than Brewer.

But, even if that does somewhat help their depth at the 2/3, they are still forced to start and give big minutes to the well below average rookie Johnson at the 2. And, most importantly, it leaves them with no shot blocking presence to defend the paint. In spite of his other flaws, at least they get that from Darko when he's in the game. Both Love and Beasley have the bulk and stength to hold their positions on defense when playing up one position, but with an underized Love at the 5 and an undersized Beasley at the 4, you're not going to get that weak side help defense you get from having a shot blocking presence in the game.

What Minnesota really needs is more good players. I know that sounds obvious, but the way people around here bang on Love for his team's record, maybe it isn't. As I demonstrated in my previous post, not matter how much Kevin Love outproduces his opponent, the rest of his fellow starters get totally abused on a nightly basis. It's tough to win games when 4 out of your 5 starters are getting worked over game after game.

BNM
 
Love is probably the real deal, but... but... the junk around Love seems no worse than the junk around LeBaby in Cleveland... if Love is all that and a bag of rebounds, why can't his team beat ANYONE?
 
STOMP said:
no sorry. The common old truism is defense wins championships. Check the google link below and you won't find anything inserting rebounding into the mix
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Google doesn't take you back very far and the key word was "old.". In the 80s, Riley and the Lakers used to always say "No rebounds, no rings."
 
BlazerCaravan said:
Love is probably the real deal, but... but... the junk around Love seems no worse than the junk around LeBaby in Cleveland... if Love is all that and a bag of rebounds, why can't his team beat ANYONE?
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Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the question. Who is LeBaby? Is that Lebron, when he was in Cleveland? Last I checked he's no longer in Cleveland, and when he was, he had way better temmates than Love currently has in Minnesota.

First off, I don't think anyone in their right mind thinks Love is nearly the same level of player as LeBron and no one has argued that Love is an MVP candidiate, just a borderline all-star. LeBron is the two time reigning NBA MVP and a six time all-star game starter. He's flat out way better than Kevin Love. So, any team with LeBron plus crap is going to win more games than a team with Kevin Love plus crap.

When LeBaron was in Cleveland, his supporting cast was WAY better than Love's current teammates. You're kidding, right? LeBron had Shaq, Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Jamison, Varegao, etc. He was surrounded by above average to very good players. Last year, his top 5 teammates all had PER > 15.2. Love has two teammates with PER > 15 (Ridnour and Beasley) the rest of their starters are below average to awful and their bench is horrible. Guys that are starting in Minnesota would not have made Cleveland's roster last season, or at best, would have been 3rd string.

LeBron >>>>> Love

LeBron's Teamates >>>>> Love's Teammates

LeBron's Team >>>>>>>>>> Love's Team

So, big surprise, last year's Cavs won more games than this year's Timberwolves will.

BNM
 
But Love's PER at Center is in the LeBron range; of course PER might not be the best stat to judge a good player on a shitty team by. There is a real risk of stat inflation if, say, your team jacks uP a lot of misses and only one player is ever in a position to rebound, play on the post, etc.

The Internet sucks for this kind of discussion; in person I'm sure we both would come off nicer.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
But Love's PER at Center is in the LeBron range.
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Not really. LeBron posted a PER of 50 last year and averaged 72.2 PTS/48 when he played center in Cleveland. Unfortunately, his opposing center also had a PER of 50 and scored 65 PTS/48. So, not much of an advantage to playing LeBron at the 5. Ha ha, just kidding small sample size and all that.

Point is, center is not Love's primary position, power forward is and the numbers he puts up while playing power forward are much closer to his total aggregate numbers.

BNM
 
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